Getting rid of Windows 11

Not at all. Do not listen to newb geeks who try to tell you that the sky is falling when *support* for an OS ends. These are the people who don't know much at all about security and so they just cross their fingers and hope MS and timely updates will save them, without any real security or backup plan.

Instead, if they were true professionals, they would tell you to look at the exploit list and see whether any of those affect your use. Facts instead of hand waving, or overgeneralizing hearsay. The truth is, for home users, there are very few things (if any) that weren't already patched during the regular support cycle for an OS so that by the time the support ends, you aren't vulnerable except to user mistakes, for example opening some nefarious email attachment, or some rogue website pops up a message that you're infected and you fall for that and do as it instructs and end up installing malware even though your OS tries to stop you by asking but you allow it (!) because of that social engineering aspect of tricking people.

What is the greatest risk to a home user behind a router? It is not the OS version. It is the entry points, the browser, or opening email attachments.

Many times I have issued a challenge to people who pretend they know we all need to update to the latest OS. Provide me with a situation, that is plausible in my home use, that puts me at risk. They never can. Instead, it's about how modern/current a browser you can run on the OS of choice. Malware has to have a way in, and your browser is the primary (if not exclusive) way that happens unless you are running dodgy things from warez/pirate sites, or CDs included with some generic Chinese product from a non-reputable source.

The better reason to update the OS is because you want new hardware with driver(s) that does not support the OS you already have, or there is a specific feature of the newer OS that is of benefit to you. That is not uncommon, that you know of a feature that would be of benefit, but it's not so much a case of needing to update OS because of end of support. That is a huge mythical lie.

*I've worked in IT over 25 years. The last time I was exploited was accessing ebooks off a Russian FTP server ~20 years ago, using Internet Explorer 6. I booted a Powerquest Driveimage 6 floppy to restore a partition backup which nuked it from orbit.* I did get a lot of ebooks, would call it a win. :) Just sayin', there is reasonable caution and then there is getting to the point of uninformed paranoid, like wearing a tin foil hat, never driving a motor vehicle, never riding in a plane, never eating food (who knows what happend to it??) living in a bubble, never crossing a black cat's path, or being too far away from a lightning pole, etc.

Most of my several systems online, run Win7. They have never been exploited. When I replace them, they will get a newer OS because of the required drivers, and the eventual browser support ending. It is a moving target but not so much based on MS' support cycle as the 3rd party support cycles.

[/rant] ;)
In 2025, my current PC will be 7 years old. W10 will certainly no longer meet my employer's requirements and it will have to go. Even if my PC's processor through a miracle ends up on the W11-compatible list, I will probably not bother. They'll just give me a new PC when the time comes.
 
^^ If that is true (will certainly no longer meet my employer's requirements) then the choice is easy. How do you know this is true, though?

If they give you a new PC, and it has win11, problem solved? I never understood one of the issues in this topic which was file associations. You can just edit the registry to fix that if some 3rd party app or windows itself won't allow it.

Usually, the app itself has a settings menu which allows (re-) associating file types.
 
^^ If that is true (will certainly no longer meet my employer's requirements) then the choice is easy. How do you know this is true, though?

If they give you a new PC, and it has win11, problem solved?

Literally yes. Cyber insurance policies as well as an increasing amount of big client will require compliance, to include making sure you're running a supported Windows version on PCs accessing your network; and if not, then why.
 
^^ If that is true (will certainly no longer meet my employer's requirements) then the choice is easy. How do you know this is true, though?
The company tech guys told me last year after some hardware upgrades.
If they give you a new PC, and it has win11, problem solved? I never understood one of the issues in this topic which was file associations. You can just edit the registry to fix that if some 3rd party app or windows itself won't allow it.

Usually, the app itself has a settings menu which allows (re-) associating file types.
Maybe you can get more info out of Shel_B.
 
Not at all. Do not listen to newb geeks who try to tell you that the sky is falling when *support* for an OS ends. These are the people who don't know much at all about security and so they just cross their fingers and hope MS and timely updates will save them, without any real security or backup plan.

Instead, if they were true professionals, they would tell you to look at the exploit list and see whether any of those affect your use. Facts instead of hand waving, or overgeneralizing hearsay. The truth is, for home users, there are very few things (if any) that weren't already patched during the regular support cycle for an OS so that by the time the support ends, you aren't vulnerable except to user mistakes, for example opening some nefarious email attachment, or some rogue website pops up a message that you're infected and you fall for that and do as it instructs and end up installing malware even though your OS tries to stop you by asking but you allow it (!) because of that social engineering aspect of tricking people.

What is the greatest risk to a home user behind a router? It is not the OS version. It is the entry points, the browser, or opening email attachments.

Many times I have issued a challenge to people who pretend they know we all need to update to the latest OS. Provide me with a situation, that is plausible in my home use, that puts me at risk. They never can. Instead, it's about how modern/current a browser you can run on the OS of choice. Malware has to have a way in, and your browser is the primary (if not exclusive) way that happens unless you are running dodgy things from warez/pirate sites, or CDs included with some generic Chinese product from a non-reputable source.

The better reason to update the OS is because you want new hardware with driver(s) that does not support the OS you already have, or there is a specific feature of the newer OS that is of benefit to you. That is not uncommon, that you know of a feature that would be of benefit, but it's not so much a case of needing to update OS because of end of support. That is a huge mythical lie.

*I've worked in IT over 25 years. The last time I was exploited was accessing ebooks off a Russian FTP server ~20 years ago, using Internet Explorer 6. I booted a Powerquest Driveimage 6 floppy to restore a partition backup which nuked it from orbit.* I did get a lot of ebooks, would call it a win. :) Just sayin', there is reasonable caution and then there is getting to the point of uninformed paranoid, like wearing a tin foil hat, never driving a motor vehicle, never riding in a plane, never eating food (who knows what happend to it??) living in a bubble, never crossing a black cat's path, or being too far away from a lightning pole, etc.

Most of my several systems online, run Win7. They have never been exploited. When I replace them, they will get a newer OS because of the required drivers, and the eventual browser support ending. It is a moving target but not so much based on MS' support cycle as the 3rd party support cycles.

[/rant] ;)
I'm guessing you don't work in sec, lol.

I've worked in the admin/network/sec side for 22 years, primarily healthcare. While the weakest link is almost always the end user, one of the problems that develops is that things like AV software and browsers stop supporting older OS's, and these are things that need to be kept up-to-date.

- ESET Endpoint no longer supports 7 or 8
- Chome stopped supporting WIndows 7/8/8.1 earlier this year

And of course Defender on 10/11 is orders of magnitude better than the now obsolete "Security Essentials" product that Microsoft made available for 7.

With the increase of "smart" devices on home networks, and those being cloud connected and potentially hijacked (as well as the janky often abandonware firmware on most consumer routers) the possibility of exploits like these being used on the local network is quite real:
CVE-2023-34367 Windows 7 is vulnerable to a full blind TCP/IP... (vulmon.com)
CVE-2023-21549 Windows SMB Witness Service Elevation of Privil... (vulmon.com)
CVE-2019-0708 A vulnerability in the Remote Desktop Services c... (vulmon.com)
CVE-2021-24094 Windows TCP/IP Remote Code Execution Vulnerabil... (vulmon.com)
CVE-2022-34718 Windows TCP/IP Remote Code Execution Vulnerabil... (vulmon.com)
CVE-2022-34722 Windows Internet Key Exchange (IKE) Protocol Ex... (vulmon.com)

This one was being exploited through Chrome:
CVE-2021-43215 iSNS Server Memory Corruption Vulnerability Can... (vulmon.com)

This one takes advantage of the WLAN Autoconfig service and could be exploited by somebody doing wardriving:
CVE-2021-36965 Windows WLAN AutoConfig Service Remote Code Exe... (vulmon.com)

Little blurb on consumer router vulnerabilities:
87 critical vulnerabilities discovered in routers in 2021 | Kaspersky

Some examples of this happening in the wild:
Home routers are being hijacked using vulnerability disclosed just 2 days ago (malwarebytes.com)
Top ASUS routers have serious security flaws that could let hackers hijack your device | TechRadar
AVrecon malware infects 70,000 Linux routers to build botnet (bleepingcomputer.com)
Mirai variant infects low-cost Android TV boxes for DDoS attacks (bleepingcomputer.com)
Microsoft finds new NETGEAR firmware vulnerabilities that could lead to identity theft and full system compromise | Microsoft Security Blog
300,000 MikroTik routers are ticking security time bombs, researchers say | Ars Technica

So, while I agree that the biggest security risk is the person behind the keyboard, our "connected" lives and cheap consumer hardware can facilitate the exploitation of security vulnerabilities that you wouldn't normally associate with being plausible on Joe Average's home network.
 
I bet it's missing just the TPM. I noticed only customers or higher grade computers having them until Win11 really took off sometime around 2020/1.

Ouch. I saw links stating to check bios, make sure it's not disabled. But otherwise... yeah I'd be miffed too. I get it, 4 years is geezer land for tech, but still. Makes me think more about going back to Linux for home, or at least dual boot in the short term. Cutting edge I don't need. Just robust and secure.
You were both correct. My issue was my BIOS was old. Really old. I just updated it from version 2 to version 38 and now I have the TPM.
 
I'm guessing you don't work in sec, lol.

I've worked in the admin/network/sec side for 22 years, primarily healthcare. While the weakest link is almost always the end user, one of the problems that develops is that things like AV software and browsers stop supporting older OS's, and these are things that need to be kept up-to-date.

Except we're talking about Win10 vs 11, in a home environment, and neither is relevant to whether your other networked devices have security flaws.

I never suggested not to update firmware on, or replace a vulnerable device like a router, IF you're in a situation where it affects your use. If you have a bicycle lock that can be opened with a Bic Pen, and you park your bike in risky areas, by all means replace it. That has nothing to do with Win10 vs 11.

As far as Win7, or even XP in a home environment, I'd love to hear from people that were actually exploited due to that instead of some other security problem. Long after MS had released Vista, I still had WinXP boxes on the internet. Never got exploited. They just got too slow for modern use and then newer hardware, needed newer OS driver support.
 
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Except we're talking about Win10 vs 11, in a home environment, and neither is relevant to whether your other networked devices have security flaws.

I never suggested not to update firmware on, or replace a vulnerable device like a router, IF you're in a situation where it affects your use. If you have a bicycle lock that can be opened with a Bic Pen, and you park your bike in risky areas, by all means replace it. That has nothing to do with Win10 vs 11.

As far as Win7, or even XP in a home environment, I'd love to hear from people that were actually exploited due to that instead of some other security problem. Long after MS had released Vista, I still had WinXP boxes on the internet. Never got exploited. They just got too slow for modern use and then newer hardware, needed newer OS driver support.
Totally agree on the 10/11 thing, I was referencing your point about folks still using XP/Vista/7, which those vulnerabilities I listed, that could be exploited through hijacked IoT devices including cheap home routers, apply to.

On the examples front, I've personally seen a home router hijacked, which was configured to use rogue DNS servers to redirect traffic totally unbeknownst to the end user. It was actually quite interesting to investigate. A friend of mine reached out asking me if I could do them a favour and take a look at this person's computer, that kept ending up at sites they weren't trying to go to. They of course assumed it was a computer problem.

I firmly believe we'll see more of this going forward, with IoT devices becoming more prolific in the home and producers of consumer gear being notorious for not providing patches in a timely manner, or at all. My thermostat is on its own isolated VLAN for a reason ;)
 
Been running Win 10 since ? 2017?? On this iBuy desktop.
No TPM with my 2016 BIOS on MSI Z170A SLI Plus MB (Core i7)

AFAIK if I upgrade my BIOS (seems like a mini chore) then TPM. Meh. No rush

I haven't checked my newer (2019??) laptop
 
You were both correct. My issue was my BIOS was old. Really old. I just updated it from version 2 to version 38 and now I have the TPM.

Bunch of picky wimps! A great hot dog has to be fully dressed! Ketchup, mustard, relish, chopped onions, a couple small tomato slices, sliced banana peppers, and a kosher pickle wedge on the side. I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Oh, yeah. Sometimes add some sauerkraut.

My wife likes a chili dog. I can eat them, but that is so plain, compared to a fully dressed Chicago dog.
A few days after I updated my BIOS to gain TPM a box popped up on my PC asking if I wanted to upgrade to Win11 for free. I did it. It was smooth and painless. All the passwords and logins remained so I can barely tell the difference.
 
Been running Win 10 since ? 2017?? On this iBuy desktop.
No TPM with my 2016 BIOS on MSI Z170A SLI Plus MB (Core i7)

AFAIK if I upgrade my BIOS (seems like a mini chore) then TPM. Meh. No rush

I haven't checked my newer (2019??) laptop
BIOS updates nowadays are usually just downloading an executable and running it under Windows, then just letting it do its thing.
 
BIOS updates nowadays are usually just downloading an executable and running it under Windows, then just letting it do its thing.
Kinda sorta

 
Kinda sorta

Wow, reading that I feel like I just went back in time. Not sure why MSI still makes users jump through hoops like that. The process is still easy enough though, assuming you have a spare thumbdrive.
 
Wow, reading that I feel like I just went back in time. Not sure why MSI still makes users jump through hoops like that. The process is still easy enough though, assuming you have a spare thumbdrive.
Shant be too difficult - on the list and no rush. Everything works great now. I doubt a total BIOS update will mess anything up.......but....
 
Wow, reading that I feel like I just went back in time. Not sure why MSI still makes users jump through hoops like that. The process is still easy enough though, assuming you have a spare thumbdrive.

Most motherboard manufacturers now have a program that can update your BIOS/UEFI without going the old way. MSI has the MSI center app, ASUS has the EZ Flash 3, etc.

Is this a pre-built thing with a locked down bios?
I’ve never done it at the windows level.

Yep, most OEM computers I've used in the past 7 years can install BIOS/UEFI updates via a Windows update.
 
I bought a new laptop online for the purposes of using it to tune my own car, it was supposed to have Windows 10 Pro but came with Windows 11. 11 is useless for my purpose as SCT's pro racer package software only goes up to Win10 and WIN11 won't let you install 3rd party stuff that doesn't come from their store.
 
I just bought a new laptop and Win11 certainly is full of bloatware. Even though I've beaten it into submission somewhat already, my intention is to install a "Lite" version of Win 11. I've been running a an NLite version of win 10 for many years and had no trouble so I'm happy with the concept.

So far I've tried Tiny 11 which is a ready made iso supposedly tested and developed over 6 months but I couldn't get onedrive to work on it which is something I want. Can anyone recommend a Lite version that works well. I presume I'd be able to configure one myself again using NLite although I recall that was a long and laborious process to produce the template. Not that I mind how log it takes, it's just that I wasn't always sure I was removing the right things.
 
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