Dexos Oil

“That's just it. I was making a point NOT to believe it.
Tell me, please, what's wrong with my Dexos Q? GM states to keep a GM engine under warranty you must use Dexos oil. Why? Does other oil cause the problems I listed in my Q? Or, is it just to SATISFY GM?”



I cannot tell you why. GovMo set the specs with their testing. No oil company reveals their formulas, even pre-dexos. The simple answer is to run the spec as written in your owners manual.

In most cases, whatever your manual states should be a good guideline to start with. If your situation or climate convinces you to use something else then by all means go for it. It’s your vehicle, your choice.

Sorry I couldn’t give a straight answer.
 
BOF
I don’t think a GM product will blow up if oils other than Dexos approved go in. I don’t own a GM vehicle. Never have, never will. But, I’ll guarantee you that Motorcraft Full Synthetic or Synthetic Blend will perform just as well as any Dexos approved oils in a GM product.
 
Dexos is just a pure money grab by GM.
They created an unnecessary spec that rakes in the cash from the public that don't know any better.
In the real world no harm will be done to your engine if a non Dexos oil is used.
But GM was able to bully everyone to get on the bandwagon, so here we are.
 
I'm still curious if GM would give me a hassle if I made an engine warranty claim in my Corvette while using a dexos2 5w30 like Mobil 1 ESP. My 2018 calls for a dexos1 5w30, but the 2019s come filled with dexos2 0w40 M1 ESP, and GM now recommends that oil for 2014-2018s also. But it's kind of a gray area, because the 2019 manual says to use a dexos2 0w40.
 
These last several answers are what I was seeking to my Q? Why is it that ONLY (2) members on here, that follow me around the forum board, have problems with my Q?'s?
Anyway, I knew something was fishy about GM being a "BULLY" and making the consumer use their product exclusively. Also, I thought Dexos 2 oil was for diesel engines only?
A cousin of mine has a 2017 Silverado. I think he said it holds 8.5-9 qts. of oil. I asked him what Dexos approved oil is he using. He told me that the GM dealer offered him (4) FREE OCI's, but he turned them down. He said he uses M1 only. He's had the truck now for almost (2) years and it seems to run just fine.
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Dexos is just a pure money grab by GM.
They created an unnecessary spec that rakes in the cash from the public that don't know any better.
In the real world no harm will be done to your engine if a non Dexos oil is used.
But GM was able to bully everyone to get on the bandwagon, so here we are.

You could say the same about a lot of engine manufacturers these days. They all have their particular specs that they want you to adhere to.

True, the way GM licenses Dexos, by requiring royalty fees for every quart of oil sold is somewhat more greedy than what others do. But the Dexos spec requirements do go beyond the plain vanilla API requirements, and same is true for all other engine mfg specs out there.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Dexos is just a pure money grab by GM.
They created an unnecessary spec that rakes in the cash from the public that don't know any better.
In the real world no harm will be done to your engine if a non Dexos oil is used.
But GM was able to bully everyone to get on the bandwagon, so here we are.

You could say the same about a lot of engine manufacturers these days. They all have their particular specs that they want you to adhere to.

True, the way GM licenses Dexos, by requiring royalty fees for every quart of oil sold is somewhat more greedy than what others do. But the Dexos spec requirements do go beyond the plain vanilla API requirements, and same is true for all other engine mfg specs out there.


QP, are you stating that GM "actually" does make their Dexos oil to coincide with the internal parts of GM engines? And, if a Dexos approved oil is not used, say an engine bearing, it could score? If so, they are sitting on a GOLD MINE, not only in money, but in patents pending. Kind of like Shell's GTL.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
QP, are you stating that GM "actually" does make their Dexos oil to coincide with the internal parts of GM engines? And, if a Dexos approved oil is not used, say an engine bearing, it could score?

Maybe I wouldn't go that far, but the spec helps ensure the oil meets higher standards than just bare API minimum. Since GM is going to stand behind their powertrain warranty on that new vehicle that you buy, and new engines are a lot more complex/stressed than older ones, one could argue that they do have some right to dictate what lubricant should be used.

How much of this is driven by engineering vs finance vs legal vs marketing is anyone's guess.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
QP, are you stating that GM "actually" does make their Dexos oil to coincide with the internal parts of GM engines? And, if a Dexos approved oil is not used, say an engine bearing, it could score?

Maybe I wouldn't go that far, but the spec helps ensure the oil meets higher standards than just bare API minimum. Since GM is going to stand behind their powertrain warranty on that new vehicle that you buy, and new engines are a lot more complex/stressed than older ones, one could argue that they do have some right to specify what lubricant should be used.

Let's say your GM warranty is good to 36K miles and you get an extended warranty from PETER COTTONTAIL WARRANTY INC. Do you think they will hold you to the same standards as GM, to use an approved Dexos oil for their extended warranty as well?
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Let's say your GM warranty is good to 36K miles and you get an extended warranty from PETER COTTONTAIL WARRANTY INC. Do you think they will hold you to the same standards as GM, to use an approved Dexos oil for their extended warranty as well?

If I owned an extended warranty company, I certainly would.

But the real question is: how do you prove what oil was used? You can produce purchase receipts, but that does not mean you actually used that oil in your engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
QP, are you stating that GM "actually" does make their Dexos oil to coincide with the internal parts of GM engines? And, if a Dexos approved oil is not used, say an engine bearing, it could score?

Maybe I wouldn't go that far, but the spec helps ensure the oil meets higher standards than just bare API minimum. Since GM is going to stand behind their powertrain warranty on that new vehicle that you buy, and new engines are a lot more complex/stressed than older ones, one could argue that they do have some right to dictate what lubricant should be used.

How much of this is driven by engineering vs finance vs legal vs marketing is anyone's guess.

What was added to the Dexos spec that pushed it above API specs?
 
Dexos1 focus on a little longer drain interval, without making much deposits, being viscosity stable, while giving a little above average fuel economy. Any oil that give you that can be suitable.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Let's say your GM warranty is good to 36K miles and you get an extended warranty from PETER COTTONTAIL WARRANTY INC. Do you think they will hold you to the same standards as GM, to use an approved Dexos oil for their extended warranty as well?

If I owned an extended warranty company, I certainly would.

But the real question is: how do you prove what oil was used? You can produce purchase receipts, but that does not mean you actually used that oil in your engine.


QP, that is exactly right! How would they prove you used an oil not Dexos approved? I have never read, nor heard of such an incident.
I have never been afraid to use various wts. of oil in my engines. But, common sense does apply here.
smile.gif
 
BOF
I don’t think GM is going to run a very expensive oil analysis to determine what brand and viscosity of oil was in one of their vehicles when the engine failed. The first thing they will do is pull the oil pan and look for metal and or tar.
 
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Dexos is just a pure money grab by GM.

I'd call that an oversimplification. I highly doubt GM is clicking their heels over dexos1 revenues. I gather an A5/B5 would be equally adept for a GM application, but if people have confusion over dexos1, imagine asking people to look for A5/B5. Look at how certain manufacturers mangled their wording in that respect already.
 
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
What was added to the Dexos spec that pushed it above API specs?
Originally Posted By: Hammehead
Dexos1 focus on a little longer drain interval, without making much deposits, being viscosity stable, while giving a little above average fuel economy. Any oil that give you that can be suitable.
Not quite true. .... dexos1 Gen2 also tests for LSPI, anti-foaming, GMOD oxidation, timing chain wear tests, all over and above what SN GF-5 alone does.

Originally Posted By: MParr
BOF I don’t think GM is going to run a very expensive oil analysis to determine what brand and viscosity of oil was in one of their vehicles when the engine failed. The first thing they will do is pull the oil pan and look for metal and or tar.
A cheap Blackstone analysis will easily show kv100 viscosity, and the particular "signature" vector of boron, moly, sodium, phosphorus, zinc, tungsten, titanium, magnesium, and calcium will corroborate what the owner tells GM they put in (DIYer), if GM doesn't believe your receipts. Just do a dot product on that vector with a VOA of what the owner says they used and it should be close to 1.

For example, if calcium exceeded 1200 ppm, that alone can easily prove you were NOT using dexos1 Gen2 oil, as the new LSPI demands have pushed Ca to < 1200 ppm in everything seen so far.

GM would likely only check an analysis if the oil seemed funky. If its clean looking oil and not too thick, they might not even care to investigate it.
 
Dexos is not an oil brand or formulation. It is a rigorous performance test. Basically it makes sure that an oil will pass certain performance tests and meet "dexos standards." Since GM sells so many cars, it's easy to see why an oil maker will spend the money to submit their product for testing and approval because, if approved, it means their oil might be purchased more often for use in GM vehicles.

To answer the question, NO. Your car will not wear out faster or explode or run badly just because you used a non-dexos approved oil. If you use a poor quality oil then that is on you. Just do some research and make an informed decision. And keep in mind, using an oil not dexos-approved may void your warranty if it is required by the manufacturer. In my opinion, there are plenty of affordable oils with the dexos approval that this should not be an issue for anyone.

There are lots of great oils on the market that would easily pass the dexos test but were never submitted for testing by the oil maker. Further, just because Mobil 1 0w20 and 5w30 are dexos approved does not mean all grades and formulations of Mobil 1 oil are approved. (Check the dexos approved list and you will see none of the Mobil 1 high mileage oils are listed.) Every different grade and formulation must be submitted separately for testing and approval, and if they pass, then the dexos label can be put on the bottle. Look at all the different kinds of oil and you will see that the dexos licensing fees can add up quickly if an oil maker has many different formulations. I believe the licensing cost is the primary reason why we don't see more dexos approved oils.

I run Mobil 1 10w30 in my Corvette because I know it is a very good oil, even if it's not dexos approved. That just means Mobil never submitted Mobil 1 10w30 oil for testing and approval.
 
DGXR said:
I run Mobil 1 10w30 in my Corvette because I know it is a very good oil, even if it's not dexos approved. That just means Mobil never submitted Mobil 1 10w30 oil for testing and approval.
Click to expand...
But in this case ExxonMobil has not submitted it because they never would. That particular oil does not meet all the dexos requirements.
 
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