Car salesmen need to go....

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Wow...Talk about being spiteful. That's some serious 9th grade mentality. So it's perfectly fine for salesperson to jack around customers but not the other way around? Tell you what if someone did that sort of BS in the BMW community that salesperson would be blacklisted in the BMW forums in no time.


How did the "bad salesman" jack anyone around? They probably agreed on the sale price as a requisite to the vehicle acquisition, I would surmise that the customer made it clear that no matter what she was going to shop that price, and as a result the salesman/manager/dealership elected to acquire the car so that they could guarantee themselves the opportunity to sell said car which IS what they are in business to do.

If their intent was truly unethical, by the standards of what has been espoused in this thread, it is predicated by the fact of what the customer choose to tell this dealership. Namely that she wanted this one single car but refused to commit to purchase until she was arbitrarily satisfied by some conditions that some dealership might offer. That is wasting someone's time and livlihood with deliberate intent, that is jacking someone around by acting in bad faith.

The first priority is securing the vehicle, if there is no vehicle to be sold the price does not matter. I have seen too many deals fall apart due to a customer's insistence on "negotiation" and most often someone else who takes initiative ends up buying the car. The sense of urgency is usually lacking due to a sense of entitlement, that car is theirs until its not because their priority is having their arbitrary demands met on their terms not obtaining the car first and foremost.


I'm also in sales, real estate sales. Conversion rate for potential customers vs actual sales is low. It's a numbers game. Not sure what the rate is in auto sales, but I'd be killing it if even half my potential sales went through. Remember, it's the customers money and it's their right to shop around and either buy or not buy if the conditions are right. Your blame the customer attitude is just completely wrong. It's negotiations, some are successful, some are not. Although in real estate, lots of my business is repeat customers and good word of mouth. That probably doesn't matter as much in car sales when people walk in the door all the time. Those tactics probably gets you neither.

 

[tony1679]

Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by wemay
A friend of ours recently bought a new Merc C300 coupe. But there was one Salesman that made the process very difficult. My buddy was pitting two dealerships against each other and was very transparent about it. She also wanted a specific package, color etc. The only vehicle matching her requirements was in Texas and had to be shipped. One dealership gave her the better deal so she asked for it to be shipped to them so she can finalize the purchase. Well guess what, the other dealership, now knowing exactly what she wanted had already ordered it and wouldn't release it to the dealership she was working with nor would they match the price. They told her if she wanted it, she would need to agree on their price. Mercedes hdqtrs had to get involved and she finally got the car. The A-hole Salesman just happened to be referred to her by another friend.


I see no problem with this, you can't sell what you don't have or cannot get. A dealership in an area I previously worked in had a bad reputation for giving ridiculous lowball quotes to customers KNOWING that the vehicles inquired on were ones that other dealerships had which they could not get. They knew that if a competitor matched that they would lose money to the point of not making it worthwhile to sell the vehicle. Doing this builds up unrealistic expectations in a customers' minds and it's really just an underhanded tactic to say, "if I'm not going to get this customer's business neither are you."

The dealership/salesman you are bashing did what anyone should do, protect their business interests. Its funny how you said the salesman you bash, "made things difficult?" How is that? Do they earn their livelihood by helping a customer buy a car from one of their competitors? Please explain how they benefit by giving a customer who comes in playing games, by open admission, everything they need to buy a car elsewhere? Don't blame the salesman for doing their job, blame your friend for playing games because they brought the "difficulty" on themselves.


Apparently once she left Mercedes altogether and visited an Audi dealership, Mercedes USA agreed with her because they eventually gave up the car to the dealership she was working with to get her back into the fold. So I would direct the questions to them since they were in agreement with the consumer. I can understand the original dealership in Tx not giving up the car, but not one in a bidding war obtaining it to force the consumer to bow to their prices. That's unethical in my book. But we can agree to disagree on this because neither of us will change each other's mind. And, she got her car at the agreed price from the dealership she wanted.


She sounds like a pretentious customer with a massive entitlement complex. So she wants a specific car and there is only one available and she decides to jerk two dealerships around because she really doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "negotiations." So instead of committing to purchase from the dealership that acquired the vehicle for her in good faith, which I am sure that is what really happened, she complains at the corporate level because she doesn't fell like she is getting her way. Ultimately the business that did all the work and acted in good faith gets screwed.

The "bad salesman" did not obtain a vehicle "by force." They arranged a dealer trade or straight purchased the car knowing it was the only one available and they had a customer committed to buying it. This happens EVERY SINGLE DAY in the car business, no need to add drama like its some big deal. The customer is the one who compelled MB to take the car from a dealership that spent their time and money to acquire it for a customer who had a pending deal.

Nothing unethical whatsoever, again, the customer has an entitlement complex whereby it's not enough to just simply buy the one and only car out there that they want. They have to make things as difficult as possible for all parties involved, to include themselves, by making demands that no business has any obligation to meet. This was all brought on because the customer deliberately acted in bad faith.

Saying we should agree to disagree is a cop out, your friend acted like a total jerk and instead of just admitting that (you did say that they were playing games deliberately, no?) you blame a car salesman for simply doing their job as expected.
Yeah, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the car dealership industry...

"Good faith"

Someone's ego is borderline larger than, well, [no politics]...

If you/your dealership doesn't want to play games, follow CarMax's practices. High prices, no negotiation. I'll be sure to step foot on them equally. Exactly zero times. Clearly it doesn't work, because most dealers still negotiate.

We smart consumers will continue to beat you at your own games. Stop milking us and we'll return the favor:
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Jerk me around too much and I will raise the price on you, I love collecting an extra $1000 off some DA that thinks they're gonna play me

I can't wait for the day when we buy our cars like we buy our oil. Off the shelf or online, both without salespeople pushing/preaching ethics/milking us. They'll be out of a "job" and have to survive in the real world...

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
[Nonsense. Consumer demands are only arbitrary to you the seller. Your goal is to make a profit by fulfilling customer demand. If you choose not to fulfill their demands then you are wasting your own time. IMO it sounds like you're annoyed with the process of selling cars so perhaps it's time for a career change


So the car business is all about being a doormat? Business is about at least two parties coming to a mutual agreement, I don't have to fulfill ANY demands to do business. In fact most often a no on my part is followed by a yes on the customers part. Many of my customers go through the process and commit to purchase as soon as I finalize a proposition. My closing rate is 16% and my low average is 15 cars per month. I have consistently been no lower than #3 in my two stores in every performance metric over the past three years.

Originally Posted by tony1679
We smart consumers will continue to beat you at your own games.


"Smart consumers" have helped me earn quite a livelihood, thank you

I think you missed the entire point of what has been the greatest contention in this thread, a customer who DID NOT act like a smart consumer created issues for themselves by thinking that they could outsmart those in the car business. What is worse is when they realized that their actions lead to them getting the exact opposite of what they wanted to had to call the corporate cops to come and confiscate the legal property of who she thought she was soo much smarter than. MB caved in and decided that they would rather act like Bolsheviks apparently. There is an absolute refusal to acknowledge that the consumer made things difficult on themselves by not acting smart IN REALITY, instead we get endless bashing of a car salesman and the car business in general when they are simply working within the parameters set forth by their corporate overlords on how business should be done and typically operates as a matter of common business practice.

If anyone wants my advice on how to buy a car and save time and money in the process just get as much straightened out as possible through online communication prior to setting foot on a dealership lot. There may be some variables like a trade vehicle but ultimately I feel like customers tend to make things TOO difficult on themselves and thus make things difficult on those they would seek to purchase a vehicle from. Fair enough?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Ignatius
I think you missed the entire point of what has been the greatest contention in this thread, a customer who DID NOT act like a smart consumer created issues for themselves by thinking that they could outsmart those in the car business. What is worse is when they realized that their actions lead to them getting the exact opposite of what they wanted to had to call the corporate cops to come and confiscate the legal property of who she thought she was soo much smarter than. MB caved in and decided that they would rather act like Bolsheviks apparently. There is an absolute refusal to acknowledge that the consumer made things difficult on themselves by not acting smart IN REALITY, instead we get endless bashing of a car salesman and the car business in general when they are simply working within the parameters set forth by their corporate overlords on how business should be done and typically operates as a matter of common business practice.


I think you missed the entire point. It's about move and counter move. The move of calling MB worked didn't it? The strongest negotiating move is the ability to walk away. She was shopping other brands and if MB didn't cave, it would have been no sale. The customer got what she wanted in the end and you're the one fuming about the tactic she used.

 

[tony1679]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I think you missed the entire point of what has been the greatest contention in this thread, a customer who DID NOT act like a smart consumer created issues for themselves by thinking that they could outsmart those in the car business. What is worse is when they realized that their actions lead to them getting the exact opposite of what they wanted to had to call the corporate cops to come and confiscate the legal property of who she thought she was soo much smarter than. MB caved in and decided that they would rather act like Bolsheviks apparently. There is an absolute refusal to acknowledge that the consumer made things difficult on themselves by not acting smart IN REALITY, instead we get endless bashing of a car salesman and the car business in general when they are simply working within the parameters set forth by their corporate overlords on how business should be done and typically operates as a matter of common business practice.


I think you missed the entire point. It's about move and counter move. The move of calling MB worked didn't it? The strongest negotiating move is the ability to walk away. She was shopping other brands and if MB didn't cave, it would have been no sale. The customer got what she wanted in the end and you're the one fuming about the tactic she used.
Ouch. Pure facts. Especially that fourth sentence.

Ignatius, want some Neosporin for that burn? Oh wait, you're a 'smart salesman' and have "earned quite a livelihood," so I'm sure you can afford some. It's funny, you're *almost* as arrogant and irked as the salesman I bought my Elantra from.

There's a reason my car is still worth way more than what I paid for it over a year and 15k later...

 

[PWMDMD]

Ignatius is the car salesman I walkaway from 30 seconds into the conversation - I've walked away from so many in the past. I'm sure he sells some cars to consumers who are making an "emotional purchase" or who are just clueless but the power is always with the consumer. I've never HAD to buy a car right then and there. Actually, whether or not I continue with the process of buying a car is 90% dependent on whether or not the salesman is a hack or not.

It's our money. We have to sign on the line. This isn't arrogance....they're just facts. I know a few car salesman and none of them talk about customers the way he does. There are educated consumers who don't want to screw over anyone and we look for fair car salespeople who don't want to screw us over.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Ignatius is the car salesman I walkaway from 30 seconds into the conversation - I've walked away from so many in the past. I'm sure he sells some cars to consumers who are making an "emotional purchase" or who are just clueless but the power is always with the consumer. I've never HAD to buy a car right then and there. Actually, whether or not I continue with the process of buying a car is 90% dependent on whether or not the salesman is a hack or not.

It's our money. We have to sign on the line. This isn't arrogance....they're just facts. I know a few car salesman and none of them talk about customers the way he does. There are educated consumers who don't want to screw over anyone and we look for fair car salespeople who don't want to screw us over.


The fact that he sells a bunch of cars doesn't mean he's good at it. Some sales are due to the fact that the salesman is there. You're pickier than most. I have no clue who the salespeople were when I've bought cars at dealerships. They were just there.