Car salesmen need to go....

[javacontour]

Have keys tripled in price in the past 5-8 years? We've owned 3 push button start cars. Wife lost a set of keys for one, a Nissan and it was less than $200 for the locksmith to make a replacement fob, cut the key inside and remove the lost fob from the computer so only the two on-hand worked.. My Mazda3, purchased used, had 1.5 keyfobs for it's smart start as one of them did not have the key inside, so less than $100 for the key insert and programming similar to that of the NIssan.

To me, it's doesn't seem to be a good value, it seems like betting on the fact that you'll lose a key.

You might convince me of good value if it were $100 and lasted for the lifetime of the vehicle. For $600, it better be one hour service, you'll get a key to me in an hour as long as I'm within 50 miles of the dealership. Other than that, it seems way overpriced.

I'm having a hard time seeing the value at $600.

If keys are getting that pricey, lost keys could be claimed on ones insurance and you would just pay the deductible.

For that sort of money, you could give a customer 1 to 3 additional smart keys so they have them up front.

However, as an aside, if your home is broken into, check that you have all your keys. My daughter's boyfriend had the spare key to his Subaru stolen when their apartment was robbed. They didn't realize the car key was taken.

They woke up the next AM to find the car gone.

In hind sight, if your place is broken into, check for your car keys and if they are missing, have the locksmith remove the missing key from the ECU so it's useless to the thieves.



Originally Posted by Ignatius
Quote
Yea- kind of the like the non sense that happens in the finance office. Talk about pushing products that are useless-sounds like "bad faith" to me.

I had a line item for $600.00 show up on the contract in the finance office once-without my consent. It was for "Key FOB" insurance.

Luckily the wife (ex-school teacher) caught it.


FWIW that is about the going rate to replace a keyless entry keyfob so the price was not bad.

Speaking of F&I, some of the most pathetic customers I have had to deal with would beg and plead with me over the price, payments, etc giving me the old, "we just can't afford more than $XXX.xx per month!" It's always some drama.

Then those same people will go back and drop multiple thousands of dollars in F&I and bump their payment waaaay up. If you wonder why you can't trust car sales people in is in large part because they have to deal with nonsense like this constantly and it leads them to not be able to trust customers.

 

[Wolf359]

It's just a matter of whatever the dealer/manufacturer can get away with. Mercedes keys are typically $300-$500, more like $300 for a regular key and $500 for a keyless go key. At that price, you learn not to lose any keys, still have both of mine. And you also learn to buy cars that come with two keys. I'm told their newest keyless go keys are as high as $750, but that might just be dealer gouging. They also don't make them at the dealership, you have to send out for them and they show up from a place in Texas in about 2 or 3 days.

 

[Smokescreen]

What I enjoy is going into a dealership and telling the salesmen (& women) facts about the cars they sell that they don't know. Some of the details are pretty basic....know your product people....

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by Smokescreen
What I enjoy is going into a dealership and telling the salesmen (& women) facts about the cars they sell that they don't know. Some of the details are pretty basic....know your product people....


I can 100% guarantee that none of them care and neither should you. I am probably one of the foremost experts on Subaru and the Outback model in particular that you will ever meet, I have found that more often than not the less I innundate my customers with what I know the better. In fact I love hearing them school me on what they know as it eases the process of selling them a car

I mentioned in a previous post that the guy who trained me to achieve real success in the car business is among the most car ignorant people I have ever know, he would be one of the people you described. I guarantee that even as good as I am in this business this guy runs circles around me selling cars and making money and he don't know jack about the product.

 

[MCompact]

At my store the customers looking at M Performance/M cars, iPerformance models and EVs tended to be well informed and expected the sales staff to be knowledgeable about the vehicles. That's why some of the staff received additional training. I took most of the BMW CCA customers and more than a few PHEV and EV customers.

 

[wemay]

A friend of ours recently bought a new Merc C300 coupe. But there was one Salesman that made the process very difficult. My buddy was pitting two dealerships against each other and was very transparent about it. She also wanted a specific package, color etc. The only vehicle matching her requirements was in Texas and had to be shipped. One dealership gave her the better deal so she asked for it to be shipped to them so she can finalize the purchase. Well guess what, the other dealership, now knowing exactly what she wanted had already ordered it and wouldn't release it to the dealership she was working with nor would they match the price. They told her if she wanted it, she would need to agree on their price. Mercedes hdqtrs had to get involved and she finally got the car. The A-hole Salesman just happened to be referred to her by another friend.

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by wemay
A friend of ours recently bought a new Merc C300 coupe. But there was one Salesman that made the process very difficult. My buddy was pitting two dealerships against each other and was very transparent about it. She also wanted a specific package, color etc. The only vehicle matching her requirements was in Texas and had to be shipped. One dealership gave her the better deal so she asked for it to be shipped to them so she can finalize the purchase. Well guess what, the other dealership, now knowing exactly what she wanted had already ordered it and wouldn't release it to the dealership she was working with nor would they match the price. They told her if she wanted it, she would need to agree on their price. Mercedes hdqtrs had to get involved and she finally got the car. The A-hole Salesman just happened to be referred to her by another friend.


I see no problem with this, you can't sell what you don't have or cannot get. A dealership in an area I previously worked in had a bad reputation for giving ridiculous lowball quotes to customers KNOWING that the vehicles inquired on were ones that other dealerships had which they could not get. They knew that if a competitor matched that they would lose money to the point of not making it worthwhile to sell the vehicle. Doing this builds up unrealistic expectations in a customers' minds and it's really just an underhanded tactic to say, "if I'm not going to get this customer's business neither are you."

The dealership/salesman you are bashing did what anyone should do, protect their business interests. Its funny how you said the salesman you bash, "made things difficult?" How is that? Do they earn their livelihood by helping a customer buy a car from one of their competitors? Please explain how they benefit by giving a customer who comes in playing games, by open admission, everything they need to buy a car elsewhere? Don't blame the salesman for doing their job, blame your friend for playing games because they brought the "difficulty" on themselves.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by wemay
A friend of ours recently bought a new Merc C300 coupe. But there was one Salesman that made the process very difficult. My buddy was pitting two dealerships against each other and was very transparent about it. She also wanted a specific package, color etc. The only vehicle matching her requirements was in Texas and had to be shipped. One dealership gave her the better deal so she asked for it to be shipped to them so she can finalize the purchase. Well guess what, the other dealership, now knowing exactly what she wanted had already ordered it and wouldn't release it to the dealership she was working with nor would they match the price. They told her if she wanted it, she would need to agree on their price. Mercedes hdqtrs had to get involved and she finally got the car. The A-hole Salesman just happened to be referred to her by another friend.


I see no problem with this, you can't sell what you don't have or cannot get. A dealership in an area I previously worked in had a bad reputation for giving ridiculous lowball quotes to customers KNOWING that the vehicles inquired on were ones that other dealerships had which they could not get. They knew that if a competitor matched that they would lose money to the point of not making it worthwhile to sell the vehicle. Doing this builds up unrealistic expectations in a customers' minds and it's really just an underhanded tactic to say, "if I'm not going to get this customer's business neither are you."

The dealership/salesman you are bashing did what anyone should do, protect their business interests. Its funny how you said the salesman you bash, "made things difficult?" How is that? Do they earn their livelihood by helping a customer buy a car from one of their competitors? Please explain how they benefit by giving a customer who comes in playing games, by open admission, everything they need to buy a car elsewhere? Don't blame the salesman for doing their job, blame your friend for playing games because they brought the "difficulty" on themselves.


Apparently once she left Mercedes altogether and visited an Audi dealership, Mercedes USA agreed with her because they eventually gave up the car to the dealership she was working with to get her back into the fold. So I would direct the questions to them since they were in agreement with the consumer. I can understand the original dealership in Tx not giving up the car, but not one in a bidding war obtaining it to force the consumer to bow to their prices. That's unethical in my book. But we can agree to disagree on this because neither of us will change each other's mind. And, she got her car at the agreed price from the dealership she wanted.

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by wemay
A friend of ours recently bought a new Merc C300 coupe. But there was one Salesman that made the process very difficult. My buddy was pitting two dealerships against each other and was very transparent about it. She also wanted a specific package, color etc. The only vehicle matching her requirements was in Texas and had to be shipped. One dealership gave her the better deal so she asked for it to be shipped to them so she can finalize the purchase. Well guess what, the other dealership, now knowing exactly what she wanted had already ordered it and wouldn't release it to the dealership she was working with nor would they match the price. They told her if she wanted it, she would need to agree on their price. Mercedes hdqtrs had to get involved and she finally got the car. The A-hole Salesman just happened to be referred to her by another friend.


I see no problem with this, you can't sell what you don't have or cannot get. A dealership in an area I previously worked in had a bad reputation for giving ridiculous lowball quotes to customers KNOWING that the vehicles inquired on were ones that other dealerships had which they could not get. They knew that if a competitor matched that they would lose money to the point of not making it worthwhile to sell the vehicle. Doing this builds up unrealistic expectations in a customers' minds and it's really just an underhanded tactic to say, "if I'm not going to get this customer's business neither are you."

The dealership/salesman you are bashing did what anyone should do, protect their business interests. Its funny how you said the salesman you bash, "made things difficult?" How is that? Do they earn their livelihood by helping a customer buy a car from one of their competitors? Please explain how they benefit by giving a customer who comes in playing games, by open admission, everything they need to buy a car elsewhere? Don't blame the salesman for doing their job, blame your friend for playing games because they brought the "difficulty" on themselves.


Apparently once she left Mercedes altogether and visited an Audi dealership, Mercedes USA agreed with her because they eventually gave up the car to the dealership she was working with to get her back into the fold. So I would direct the questions to them since they were in agreement with the consumer. I can understand the original dealership in Tx not giving up the car, but not one in a bidding war obtaining it to force the consumer to bow to their prices. That's unethical in my book. But we can agree to disagree on this because neither of us will change each other's mind. And, she got her car at the agreed price from the dealership she wanted.


She sounds like a pretentious customer with a massive entitlement complex. So she wants a specific car and there is only one available and she decides to jerk two dealerships around because she really doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "negotiations." So instead of committing to purchase from the dealership that acquired the vehicle for her in good faith, which I am sure that is what really happened, she complains at the corporate level because she doesn't fell like she is getting her way. Ultimately the business that did all the work and acted in good faith gets screwed.

The "bad salesman" did not obtain a vehicle "by force." They arranged a dealer trade or straight purchased the car knowing it was the only one available and they had a customer committed to buying it. This happens EVERY SINGLE DAY in the car business, no need to add drama like its some big deal. The customer is the one who compelled MB to take the car from a dealership that spent their time and money to acquire it for a customer who had a pending deal.

Nothing unethical whatsoever, again, the customer has an entitlement complex whereby it's not enough to just simply buy the one and only car out there that they want. They have to make things as difficult as possible for all parties involved, to include themselves, by making demands that no business has any obligation to meet. This was all brought on because the customer deliberately acted in bad faith.

Saying we should agree to disagree is a cop out, your friend acted like a total jerk and instead of just admitting that (you did say that they were playing games deliberately, no?) you blame a car salesman for simply doing their job as expected.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by wemay
A friend of ours recently bought a new Merc C300 coupe. But there was one Salesman that made the process very difficult. My buddy was pitting two dealerships against each other and was very transparent about it. She also wanted a specific package, color etc. The only vehicle matching her requirements was in Texas and had to be shipped. One dealership gave her the better deal so she asked for it to be shipped to them so she can finalize the purchase. Well guess what, the other dealership, now knowing exactly what she wanted had already ordered it and wouldn't release it to the dealership she was working with nor would they match the price. They told her if she wanted it, she would need to agree on their price. Mercedes hdqtrs had to get involved and she finally got the car. The A-hole Salesman just happened to be referred to her by another friend.


I see no problem with this, you can't sell what you don't have or cannot get. A dealership in an area I previously worked in had a bad reputation for giving ridiculous lowball quotes to customers KNOWING that the vehicles inquired on were ones that other dealerships had which they could not get. They knew that if a competitor matched that they would lose money to the point of not making it worthwhile to sell the vehicle. Doing this builds up unrealistic expectations in a customers' minds and it's really just an underhanded tactic to say, "if I'm not going to get this customer's business neither are you."

The dealership/salesman you are bashing did what anyone should do, protect their business interests. Its funny how you said the salesman you bash, "made things difficult?" How is that? Do they earn their livelihood by helping a customer buy a car from one of their competitors? Please explain how they benefit by giving a customer who comes in playing games, by open admission, everything they need to buy a car elsewhere? Don't blame the salesman for doing their job, blame your friend for playing games because they brought the "difficulty" on themselves.


Apparently once she left Mercedes altogether and visited an Audi dealership, Mercedes USA agreed with her because they eventually gave up the car to the dealership she was working with to get her back into the fold. So I would direct the questions to them since they were in agreement with the consumer. I can understand the original dealership in Tx not giving up the car, but not one in a bidding war obtaining it to force the consumer to bow to their prices. That's unethical in my book. But we can agree to disagree on this because neither of us will change each other's mind. And, she got her car at the agreed price from the dealership she wanted.


She sounds like a pretentious customer with a massive entitlement complex. So she wants a specific car and there is only one available and she decides to jerk two dealerships around because she really doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "negotiations." So instead of committing to purchase from the dealership that acquired the vehicle for her in good faith, which I am sure that is what really happened, she complains at the corporate level because she doesn't fell like she is getting her way. Ultimately the business that did all the work and acted in good faith gets screwed.

The "bad salesman" did not obtain a vehicle "by force." They arranged a dealer trade or straight purchased the car knowing it was the only one available and they had a customer committed to buying it. This happens EVERY SINGLE DAY in the car business, no need to add drama like its some big deal. The customer is the one who compelled MB to take the car from a dealership that spent their time and money to acquire it for a customer who had a pending deal.

Nothing unethical whatsoever, again, the customer has an entitlement complex whereby it's not enough to just simply buy the one and only car out there that they want. They have to make things as difficult as possible for all parties involved, to include themselves, by making demands that no business has any obligation to meet. This was all brought on because the customer deliberately acted in bad faith.

Saying we should agree to disagree is a cop out, your friend acted like a total jerk and instead of just admitting that (you did say that they were playing games deliberately, no?) you blame a car salesman for simply doing their job as expected.


I don't think you read the story correctly. Dealer A offered a better price than Dealer B on a vehicle located at Dealer C. Because Dealer B knew that Dealer A might offer a better price they arranged to have the car delivered to them from Dealer C. Effectively performing an end-run around the customer. That's shady.

Now it's a completely different story if the customer and Dealer B agreed on a price, and then the Dealer A got involved after the fact after which the customer felt she was entitled to the price by Dealer A.

The difficult thing for me is judging whether or not the salesman is being honest. I don't have the time nor the patience to BS around. Years ago my wife was looking at a replacement for her SLK and we wandered onto a Mercedes lot to look at a specific vehicle. The salesperson was a new hire from a Cadillac dealer in FLA. He was cordial et al, but as soon as we started talking numbers his demeanor changed. He went full on aggressive "sales-mode". I was like, "Relax son this is Mercedes Benz not Cadillac and we're going to think about it". We eventually end up with the car at the price we wanted with the assistance of another salesperson (Older guy). We found out that the new guy was no longer at the dealership about 4 months later.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

I don't think you read the story correctly. Dealer A offered a better price than Dealer B on a vehicle located at Dealer C. Because Dealer B knew that Dealer A might offer a better price they arranged to have the car delivered to them from Dealer C. Effectively performing an end-run around the customer. That's shady.

I'm not sure that is shady. End run perhaps, but strikes me as shrewd. They wanted to work her just like she was working them! All's fair in love and war, right?

I dunno, the more selective one gets, the more I'd expect to have to pay. Me, I stick with plain jane junk, if anything they would just want me in and out, so just cut a low price to start with and we'll all be happy.

I have no love for car sales, I mean I don't negotiate at Walmart or the grocery store. I plan to avoid buying a new car (or a car off a lot) for a while to come, it's all smoke and mirrors. You're always going to be disappointed when comparing prices with anyone else, someone else will always have done better.

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I don't think you read the story correctly. Dealer A offered a better price than Dealer B on a vehicle located at Dealer C. Because Dealer B knew that Dealer A might offer a better price they arranged to have the car delivered to them from Dealer C. Effectively performing an end-run around the customer. That's shady.

Now it's a completely different story if the customer and Dealer B agreed on a price, and then the Dealer A got involved after the fact after which the customer felt she was entitled to the price by Dealer A.

The difficult thing for me is judging whether or not the salesman is being honest. I don't have the time nor the patience to BS around. Years ago my wife was looking at a replacement for her SLK and we wandered onto a Mercedes lot to look at a specific vehicle. The salesperson was a new hire from a Cadillac dealer in FLA. He was cordial et al, but as soon as we started talking numbers his demeanor changed. He went full on aggressive "sales-mode". I was like, "Relax son this is Mercedes Benz not Cadillac and we're going to think about it". We eventually end up with the car at the price we wanted with the assistance of another salesperson (Older guy). We found out that the new guy was no longer at the dealership about 4 months later.


I think the person who posted the story and their friend who was the customer have terrible perception clouded by their own drama.

Here is likely what happened, one dealership acquired the one and only car available that the customer wanted and the other dealership offered to sell a car that they did not have and could not get for some lowball quote to sour the customer on doing business with the dealership that had the car. What bugs me is that the customer would add so much complexity and drama into the equation, by their own choosing, and then have the nerve to act like they are the victim of some nefarious business practice. They sound like a nightmare customer that frankly I would rather be glad to not have sold a car to.

I surmise that the dealership that ended up selling the car does not have a good reputation be it among their customers or among their competitors, perhaps not even internally with MB. I would say that the dealership that the "bad salesman" works at is probably a good store that is probably trying to do things the right way and making good moves to facilitate that hence why the customer was referred there to begin with.

IMHO sometimes you just have to let a sale go and often times it is for the best. There are stores out there that exist and stay in business because they do put up with with the BS from hard cases that no reputable store wants to deal with. They are usually unhealthy financially and their employees are poorly compensated, I have worked for such a dealership that ended up going out of business and I was miserable there with everyone else.

 

[MCompact]

I had a couple of flakey customers who made low-ball offers and I just told them happy hunting- I wasn't playing that game. Even if I had met their demands odds are that they would have still screwed me on any surveys they received. Not remotely worth it.

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by MCompact
I had a couple of flakey customers who made low-ball offers and I just told them happy hunting- I wasn't playing that game. Even if I had met their demands odds are that they would have still screwed me on any surveys they received. Not remotely worth it.


Jerk me around too much and I will raise the price on you, I love collecting an extra $1000 off some DA that thinks they're gonna play me

 

[PantherFan88]

This is exactly why I don't feel bad going out to test drive a car out of curiosity with no intention of buying. I get a kick out of 'playing car-dumb' with the salesperson and saying how I'd like to finance for 84 months with the dealership as soon as I walk in.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by PantherFan88
This is exactly why I don't feel bad going out to test drive a car out of curiosity with no intention of buying. I get a kick out of 'playing car-dumb' with the salesperson and saying how I'd like to finance for 84 months with the dealership as soon as I walk in.

Years ago when I graduated college (year 2000) I had a car salesmen let me take a car on a test drive. He was helping another customer with a car and wouldn't give me my keys back. Kept blowing me off and making excuses because he didn't want me to leave. I had to break into his desk and take them. He's lucky that's all I did.

Oh, and last month a guy at the Chevy dealer flat out lied to me about the transmission. He also had me put it into 4wd on drive pavement so he could show me how it worked. (he failed to listen to anything I said and didn't realize I knew more about the truck than he did. Again useless) This guy was a clown. He texted me the next day asking if there was anything he could do. I texted him back telling him to lower the price. Never heard back from him. What a joke.

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by PantherFan88
This is exactly why I don't feel bad going out to test drive a car out of curiosity with no intention of buying. I get a kick out of 'playing car-dumb' with the salesperson and saying how I'd like to finance for 84 months with the dealership as soon as I walk in.

I was joking, but honestly I have had several customers with reputations that I know just come in to waste my time. I usually just give them a price and they either buy the car for that price or they can leave.

I remember this one gal from a few years back who came in acting all friendly and we got everything done for her to buy the car she wanted. She requested to take it on an overnight test drive and then return the next day to purchase. She came back with 150 more miles on the car and at the very last second before finalizing the purchase she get up and starts leaving. I ask her what's up and she has a hissy saying that we're not giving her a good enough deal. It made no sense at all as she was happy after having previously agreed to the price.

It gets better, a few days later a random guy shows up saying that he wants to buy a new fully loaded Touring Outback. Mind you that this is a car with a $40,000 sticker and he enthusiastic in telling me that he is going to buy that car today for $31,000 CASH! Tax, title, license, and the whole ball of wax he is convinced that he is going to get everything he wants for $31,000 CASH! I asked him what lead him to believe he could buy that car for that price? CASH!!! I could see that this was hoing

 

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by PantherFan88
This is exactly why I don't feel bad going out to test drive a car out of curiosity with no intention of buying. I get a kick out of 'playing car-dumb' with the salesperson and saying how I'd like to finance for 84 months with the dealership as soon as I walk in.

I was joking, but honestly I have had several customers with reputations that I know just come in to waste my time. I usually just give them a price and they either buy the car for that price or they can leave.

I remember this one gal from a few years back who came in acting all friendly and we got everything done for her to buy the car she wanted. She requested to take it on an overnight test drive and then return the next day to purchase. She came back with 150 more miles on the car and at the very last second before finalizing the purchase she get up and starts leaving. I ask her what's up and she has a hissy saying that we're not giving her a good enough deal. It made no sense at all as she was happy after having previously agreed to the price.

It gets better, a few days later a random guy shows up saying that he wants to buy a new fully loaded Touring Outback. Mind you that this is a car with a $40,000 sticker and he enthusiastic in telling me that he is going to buy that car today for $31,000 CASH! Tax, title, license, and the whole ball of wax he is convinced that he is going to get everything he wants for $31,000 CASH! I asked him what lead him to believe he could buy that car for that price? CASH!!! I could see that this was going nowhere and then all of a sudden who he informs me is his daughter walks in, the gal that jerked me around as previously described.

So I didn't want to deal with them anymore and passed them off to a coworker. About a half hour later I meet him in the sales manager's office and he is convinced that he has a deal with this girl. About a half hour later he is describing to me how she pulled the exact same crap with him walking out at the last second. You can't fix stupid and I am not qualified to deal with crazy.

 

[MCompact]

I heard someone say once that there are two kinds of salespeople- those who can sell anything and those who can only sell a product that they believe in. Those in the first group make loads of money but usually die from a stress related illness. Those in the second group weren't as wealthy but were much happier. I definitely fall into the latter category. And I could never deal with the all of the strokes you encounter in a mass market dealership- never mind trying to act enthusiastic about a car I wouldn't drive even if you held a gun to my head.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

I don't think you read the story correctly. Dealer A offered a better price than Dealer B on a vehicle located at Dealer C. Because Dealer B knew that Dealer A might offer a better price they arranged to have the car delivered to them from Dealer C. Effectively performing an end-run around the customer. That's shady.

Now it's a completely different story if the customer and Dealer B agreed on a price, and then the Dealer A got involved after the fact after which the customer felt she was entitled to the price by Dealer A.

The difficult thing for me is judging whether or not the salesman is being honest. I don't have the time nor the patience to BS around. Years ago my wife was looking at a replacement for her SLK and we wandered onto a Mercedes lot to look at a specific vehicle. The salesperson was a new hire from a Cadillac dealer in FLA. He was cordial et al, but as soon as we started talking numbers his demeanor changed. He went full on aggressive "sales-mode". I was like, "Relax son this is Mercedes Benz not Cadillac and we're going to think about it". We eventually end up with the car at the price we wanted with the assistance of another salesperson (Older guy). We found out that the new guy was no longer at the dealership about 4 months later.


That is EXACTLY what happened, thanks for simplifying. And i have no issue with Salesmen, far from it since i was one for some time and my overall experience with vehicle salesmen has been positive. But my friend is far from pretentious like Ignatius states or thinks, nor is my agreeing to disagree a cop out. It's more like, not wanting to participate in another 3 pages of this.