Can someone clarify the Fram situation?

[skaughtz]

That’s it, yes it’s online, but if you call Mary Jane at (815) 932-3288 and order that way with BITOG15 promo code, not only will you get 15% off but you’ll also get $25 flat rate shipping for a case.

Alright. I like your moxie. I got the HPL Engine Cleaner. Three questions:

1) It says use 1qt EC to 5qts oil. My Camry takes 4.5qts oil with the filter, so is it safe to go with the full 1qt EC to 3.5qts oil, or should I actually proportion it out?

2) What is it in the EC that is so much more effective than Lucas or any other type of additive? Does it contain polyetheramine or something similar whereas the others do not?

3) It occurs to me that replacing 1qt of oil with the EC would still dilute the oil unless the EC has some fancy additive package as well?

The advice is appreciated.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Boss has terrible filtration efficiency. Bad choice if that's what you're after.

Thought the Boss was 99% @ 25um? Not as good as FRAM at 99.9% @ 20um, but not awful either...

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Alright. I like your moxie. I got the HPL Engine Cleaner. Three questions:

1) It says use 1qt EC to 5qts oil. My Camry takes 4.5qts oil with the filter, so is it safe to go with the full 1qt EC to 3.5qts oil, or should I actually proportion it out?

2) What is it in the EC that is so much more effective than Lucas or any other type of additive? Does it contain polyetheramine or something similar whereas the others do not?

3) It occurs to me that replacing 1qt of oil with the EC would still dilute the oil unless the EC has some fancy additive package as well?

The advice is appreciated.

1. The official ratio is 20% of oil capacity. If you’re talking 0.25 qts or so to be “perfect”, I doubt you need to be so critical. Your sump would take 29 ounces to be perfect, so a quart would be fine IMO.

2. EC is a bunch of specially chosen esters to soften and release carbon and varnish and other solids that have precipitated onto lubricated surfaces. The regular engine oil takes this up a notch with alkylated napthalenes, but this can be a little aggressive in a dirty engine- HPL recommends at least one OCI with just the EC to gently and safely remove contaminants without plugging the filter or other engine passages.

In the case of an oil burner likely with coked oil rings, a couple OCIs with just the EC is a safe way to free those rings up. After consumption is down, you can either:
A. Switch over to HPL’s regular oil and motor on; B. Continue nearly indefinitely with simply subbing a quart of EC into your choice of oils; or C. Go back to whatever shelf stock oil you prefer and do a quart of EC say every 10-15k miles. Your choice, all are likely better than your current condition.

3. The EC is fully formulated and has HPL’s normal additive pack which is almost certainly more robust than any shelf oil, but you don’t want to run a full sump of EC because if the ratio is too strong it can affect some of the polymers from what @High Performance Lubricants has shared. So, EC + shelf oil for a few OCIs, then proceed in step 2 as you wish.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Thought the Boss was 99% @ 25um? Not as good as FRAM at 99.9% @ 20um, but not awful either...

Ascent Lubrication’s testing that has an awesome thread here on the board (and I believe the wording on the Boss box) is 99% @ 46um or something bad like that. If you’re ok with filtration efficiency that low, just use your OEM’s filters

 

[skaughtz]

1. The official ratio is 20% of oil capacity. If you’re talking 0.25 qts or so to be “perfect”, I doubt you need to be so critical. Your sump would take 29 ounces to be perfect, so a quart would be fine IMO.

2. EC is a bunch of specially chosen esters to soften and release carbon and varnish and other solids that have precipitated onto lubricated surfaces. The regular engine oil takes this up a notch with alkylated napthalenes, but this can be a little aggressive in a dirty engine- HPL recommends at least one OCI with just the EC to gently and safely remove contaminants without plugging the filter or other engine passages.

In the case of an oil burner likely with coked oil rings, a couple OCIs with just the EC is a safe way to free those rings up. After consumption is down, you can either:
A. Switch over to HPL’s regular oil and motor on; B. Continue nearly indefinitely with simply subbing a quart of EC into your choice of oils; or C. Go back to whatever shelf stock oil you prefer and do a quart of EC say every 10-15k miles. Your choice, all are likely better than your current condition.

3. The EC is fully formulated and has HPL’s normal additive pack which is almost certainly more robust than any shelf oil, but you don’t want to run a full sump of EC because if the ratio is too strong it can affect some of the polymers from what @High Performance Lubricants has shared. So, EC + shelf oil for a few OCIs, then proceed in step 2 as you wish.

Thanks for the info. Next change I am going to add the quart of the EC and 3.5 quarts of Mobil-1 High Mileage 5W-30 with a Fram FE3614 and see where it goes from there. Any way you shake a stick at it this route is easier than having the pistons and rings replaced, which I am never going to do on a 16 year old car.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Fram TG4967 would be my choice for Toyota but fram prices gone up and there’s other options out there such as the super tech

 

[Mewbs]

Depending on the mileage and age of your car if the cylinder walls are in fair condition and when the oil consumption started to occur, there are alternatives to the slow HPL EC method. I have good success with BG EPR that is part of a 3 part kit that comes with BG MOA and BG 44K that I have used on my brother's 2010 Prius at 270K miles for 20 minutes before oil drain that was consuming around 2 quarts of oil before the EPR flush. We got the consumption down to around 1 quart per 1000 miles, the oil is no longer gets blackish after the first thousand mile of driving and has a clear gold hue on inspection, however we haven't examined if the PCV valve is due for replacement since I don't know his vehicle service history. All I know he's been taking it to Valvoline quick lube services since he got the car in 2013 and probably getting the cheapest oil given how overpriced the service is there. I wouldn't recommend BG EPR if you don't want to risk dislodging chunks of sludge that can block oil passageways, but it worked for us in the time being.

This new HPL stuff has really got my attention lately after reading some cool results other have here so I'm curious to see how clean my Yaris engine internals can get running HPL 5w-30 at 140,000 miles to 200,000 miles (136,000-ish miles currently which I bought at 110,776 miles that has been dealership serviced history for the most part). And no oil consumption yet.

Good luck OP in solving the oil issues.

 

[dlundblad]

I see the Fram Titanium listed, but I would go here instead. Toyotas like Champs in my past experience.

View attachment 181573

View attachment 181574
Typ under 4 bucks mailorder.

Looks like a good buy. Is it US made?

Have you purchased these and made sure this is the filter you actually get? I recall similar verbiage when they were selling WIX filters under the Carquest name. What was delivered was some sort of nitrile ADBV Champ thing. This is the filter for my truck.

 

[skaughtz]

Depending on the mileage and age of your car if the cylinder walls are in fair condition and when the oil consumption started to occur, there are alternatives to the slow HPL EC method. I have good success with BG EPR that is part of a 3 part kit that comes with BG MOA and BG 44K that I have used on my brother's 2010 Prius at 270K miles for 20 minutes before oil drain that was consuming around 2 quarts of oil before the EPR flush. We got the consumption down to around 1 quart per 1000 miles, the oil is no longer gets blackish after the first thousand mile of driving and has a clear gold hue on inspection, however we haven't examined if the PCV valve is due for replacement since I don't know his vehicle service history. All I know he's been taking it to Valvoline quick lube services since he got the car in 2013 and probably getting the cheapest oil given how overpriced the service is there. I wouldn't recommend BG EPR if you don't want to risk dislodging chunks of sludge that can block oil passageways, but it worked for us in the time being.

This new HPL stuff has really got my attention lately after reading some cool results other have here so I'm curious to see how clean my Yaris engine internals can get running HPL 5w-30 at 140,000 miles to 200,000 miles (136,000-ish miles currently which I bought at 110,776 miles that has been dealership serviced history for the most part). And no oil consumption yet.

Good luck OP in solving the oil issues.

I have 153k on her. I got her at 58k and she has had either Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil-1 0w-20 since. High mileage from 70whatever on. She has always burned a bit of oil, but it is only in the past year of so that it increased dramatically. During this OCI I have put ~4.3 quarts in over 3000 miles, so it is to the point that I am willing to try mechanics in a bottle to bring it down. Four years and 40k miles ago I was adding 3.5 per 5500 or 6000 miles.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

I have 153k on her. I got her at 58k and she has had either Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil-1 0w-20 since. High mileage from 70whatever on. She has always burned a bit of oil, but it is only in the past year of so that it increased dramatically. During this OCI I have put ~4.3 quarts in over 3000 miles, so it is to the point that I am willing to try mechanics in a bottle to bring it down. Four years and 40k miles ago I was adding 3.5 per 5500 or 6000 miles.

Yeah it’s definitely time for a 30 weight, so good call on the M1 HM 5w30. The HPL No VII 5w30 would be a good choice, or maybe the Premium Plus xw30 if you live in a cold place.

I’m currently tracking my own oil burning journey in a 2006 CR-V 183k miles that historically burned a quart every 1000-2000 mi. I’m potentially seeing early signs of reduced consumption using EC30. We’ll see.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Looks like a good buy. Is it US made?

Have you purchased these and made sure this is the filter you actually get? I recall similar verbiage when they were selling WIX filters under the Carquest name. What was delivered was some sort of nitrile ADBV Champ thing. This is the filter for my truck.View attachment 181656

I thought super techs are identical to a champ labs

 

[CarbonSteel]

Ascent Lubrication’s testing that has an awesome thread here on the board (and I believe the wording on the Boss box) is 99% @ 46um or something bad like that. If you’re ok with filtration efficiency that low, just use your OEM’s filters

The wording on the Boss website is "99% based on ISO 4548-12 at 25 microns on PBL30001".

I use FE filters, but the Boss is not bad and I doubt your engine would ever know the difference.

 

[Soft Cars]

Boss has terrible filtration efficiency. Bad choice if that's what you're after.

I thought it was supposed to be more efficient than the Wix XP.

 

[LowMilesLesabre]

Boss has terrible filtration efficiency. Bad choice if that's what you're after.

Fram Ultra was wire backed, now not, otherwise efficiency is the same or potentially improved (according to Fram Customer service).
Wavy pleats have been observed, but in typical conditions that's not really a huge concern. But others feel differently.

Fram Endurance is wire backed and is 99% at 20micron. No evidence that it is not wire backed. Only complaint is price.

Your comment got me thinking. I wonder if the theoretical increase in filtration efficiency of the ultra after the wire mesh was removed is due to the fact that there is more room inside the filter for media, which potentially increases the efficiency?
If that turns out to be the case, I would not mind going with the ultra because I don’t generally go past a 5000 mile OCI. But, that being said, I’m willing to pay for either the ultra or the endurance to get a good filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

First, I searched around the forum and I am seeing claims that the Synthetic Endurance line has wire backing but might also be switching to the non-wired back that they did with the Ultra and Titanium.

Never heard that rumor until now. I doubt the Endurance is going to lose its wire-backing.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Ascent Lubrication’s testing that has an awesome thread here on the board (and I believe the wording on the Boss box) is 99% @ 46um or something bad like that. If you’re ok with filtration efficiency that low, just use your OEM’s filters

Purolator Boss came in around 63% @ 20u and 97% @ 30u. The WIX XP was worse than that.

Would you all like to see ISO 4548-12 Oil Filter Lab Testing Comparison, Efficiency & Capacity, Pressure vs Flow, Bubble Point, and Burst?

I have this as a “watched” thread, so if you do happen to start a new one, could you put a note or link in this one to direct followers to the new thread? Thanks!! Yes, no problem I can do that.

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[ZeeOSix]

I have 153k on her. I got her at 58k and she has had either Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil-1 0w-20 since. High mileage from 70whatever on.

As already suggested, I'd be going with a 0W-30 or 5W-30 depending on your cold winter use. Bump up the KV100 to a 30.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I thought it was supposed to be more efficient than the Wix XP.

It is, slightly based on Ascent's ISO 4548-12 testing.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Your comment got me thinking. I wonder if the theoretical increase in filtration efficiency of the ultra after the wire mesh was removed is due to the fact that there is more room inside the filter for media, which potentially increases the efficiency?

I'd say no. The media area in the new Ultra was increased because the synthetic blend media is different, and more surface area helps increase the efficiency and lower the dP vs flow. The wire backing didn't take any real room away.

 

[dlundblad]

I thought super techs are identical to a champ labs

What makes you bring up ST filters?