Can someone clarify the Fram situation?

[skaughtz]

First, I searched around the forum and I am seeing claims that the Synthetic Endurance line has wire backing but might also be switching to the non-wired back that they did with the Ultra and Titanium.

I know I am late to the party on this but 1) I don't religiously follow oil filters and 2) I am now super irritated that Fram changed the Ultra and I had no idea until now because I loved that filter.

Fram doesn't even offer the Endurance line for my 2007 Camry, so for that I have switched back to a Purolator Boss. They do offer it for my 2012 Civic, and I would love to use it, but not if they are further pinching pennies and changing the filter media on that as well.

So, is the Fram Endurance line still like the OG Ultra line, or are they about to/in the process of screwing that up as well?

 

[kschachn]

Just to be clear there’s really no actual evidence that the current Ultra is screwed up, that’s opinion by some based on the changes they see to the product. It has a 20,000 mile guarantee and the same published filtration efficiency as before.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I see the Fram Titanium listed, but I would go here instead. Toyotas like Champs in my past experience.

Typ under 4 bucks mailorder.

 

[drtyler]

Neither the FE4967 (spin-on) and FE9972 (cartridge) will work for your Camry?

The Fram 4386 filters were consolidated into 4967.

 

[skaughtz]

Just to be clear there’s really no actual evidence that the current Ultra is screwed up, that’s opinion by some based on the changes they see to the product. It has a 20,000 mile guarantee and the same filtration efficiency.

I am just going based on the threads I have been able to read through in a short time and the pictures of the wavy, non-wire backed media change shown in pictures of the more recent 20k Ultra filters cut open. I stopped using Purolators years ago when BITOG forums routinely showed the media tearing and switched to the OG Ultra line because it held up like a tank by comparison. I am about to get out and do my pre-winter tune-ups for my vehicles and decided to check the forum to see if there was any recent news. To my surprise I came across the changed Ultras.

 

[skaughtz]

Neither the FE4967 (spin-on) and FE9972 (cartridge) will work for your Camry?

The Fram 4386 filters were consolidated into 4967.

That I was not aware of. My Camry is a 2.4L and Fram's website still lists the 4386 as the number. Popping any 4967 into the cart on Amazon or Walmart also tells me that it is not compatible, for what that is worth.

 

[Mewbs]

Your Camry is likely spec'd for the 90915-YZZF1 filter which has somewhat been superceeded by the newer and smaller 90915-YZZN1 which goes on the newer model Toyotas and compatible with the older makes as well. Even the STP filters at Autozone are spec-ing the 4967 sized filters for them. You try to measure the engine block filter mount face to see if it allows fitting a larger filter to substitute. For example, my 2012 Yaris can fit the larger 90915-YZZD3 which is equivulant to the Fram 3614 and 3600 size filters which also have the same bypass valve setting as the smaller XG4967 according to Fram's webpage

You can find a wire backed Titanium over the Ultra which I suggest to look into the box and filter with a flashlight before buying, I just got a FS3600 yesterday which is wire backed with pink media that had a date code of A12036 (last one in stock at my local Advance Autoparts) I'm going for the oversized option for future HPL EC/PCMO run experiments.

 

[Davejam]

First, I searched around the forum and I am seeing claims that the Synthetic Endurance line has wire backing but might also be switching to the non-wired back that they did with the Ultra and Titanium.

I know I am late to the party on this but 1) I don't religiously follow oil filters and 2) I am now super irritated that Fram changed the Ultra and I had no idea until now because I loved that filter.

Fram doesn't even offer the Endurance line for my 2007 Camry, so for that I have switched back to a Purolator Boss. They do offer it for my 2012 Civic, and I would love to use it, but not if they are further pinching pennies and changing the filter media on that as well.

So, is the Fram Endurance line still like the OG Ultra line, or are they about to/in the process of screwing that up as well?

Boss has terrible filtration efficiency. Bad choice if that's what you're after.

Fram Ultra was wire backed, now not, otherwise efficiency is the same or potentially improved (according to Fram Customer service).
Wavy pleats have been observed, but in typical conditions that's not really a huge concern. But others feel differently.

Fram Endurance is wire backed and is 99% at 20micron. No evidence that it is not wire backed. Only complaint is price.

 

[hemioiler]

I am just going based on the threads I have been able to read through in a short time and the pictures of the wavy, non-wire backed media change shown in pictures of the more recent 20k Ultra filters cut open. I stopped using Purolators years ago when BITOG forums routinely showed the media tearing and switched to the OG Ultra line because it held up like a tank by comparison. I am about to get out and do my pre-winter tune-ups for my vehicles and decided to check the forum to see if there was any recent news. To my surprise I came across the changed Ultras.

How long (miles) were those Fram's used? I'm still using the Ultra despite the change, I only go about 5000 to 7000 miles on a filter so I'm assuming a filter rated at 20k can easily do it's job without killing itself in less than half the rated duration.

 

[fantastic]

Until I see evidence of such a change I would not begin to state it's going to change.

Boss has terrible filtration efficiency. Bad choice if that's what you're after.

Fram Ultra was wire backed, now not, otherwise efficiency is the same or potentially improved (according to Fram Customer service).
Wavy pleats have been observed, but in typical conditions that's not really a huge concern. But others feel differently.

Fram Endurance is wire backed and is 99% at 20micron. No evidence that it is not wire backed. Only complaint is price.

It depends on the filter.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

How long (miles) were those Fram's used? I'm still using the Ultra despite the change, I only go about 5000 to 7000 miles on a filter so I'm assuming a filter rated at 20k can easily do it's job without killing itself in less than half the rated duration.

There’s probably just as much or more evidence on this board that the Ultra can go farther than 20k without any additional risk than there is that any Ultra can’t make it the full 20k.

Obviously, if one has a known sludged engine or is initially changing over to HPL EC or engine oils, prudence should be used and the 5k FCI is endorsed by HPL in order to ensure that a filter is not overwhelmed with debris.

 

[skaughtz]

Boss has terrible filtration efficiency. Bad choice if that's what you're after.

Fram Ultra was wire backed, now not, otherwise efficiency is the same or potentially improved (according to Fram Customer service).
Wavy pleats have been observed, but in typical conditions that's not really a huge concern. But others feel differently.

Fram Endurance is wire backed and is 99% at 20micron. No evidence that it is not wire backed. Only complaint is price.

Well okay then. I am more than happy to pay a bit extra if it is constructed like the OG Ultra was (which was always cheap for the quality). The FE7317 is fine for my Civic, but I am not too keen on the idea of throwing the smaller 4967 on my Camry. I see the above post mentioning the 3614 and 3600. Does anyone have any experience using those or another number on a 5/6th Gen Camry 2.4L?

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Boss has terrible filtration efficiency. Bad choice if that's what you're after.

Fram Ultra was wire backed, now not, otherwise efficiency is the same or potentially improved (according to Fram Customer service).
Wavy pleats have been observed, but in typical conditions that's not really a huge concern. But others feel differently.

Fram Endurance is wire backed and is 99% at 20micron. No evidence that it is not wire backed. Only complaint is price.

I would not say the Boss has “terrible” efficiency. It’s just not as good as Fram Ultra/Endurance. Its efficiency is measurably better than most other M&H filters, especially the Wix XP.

I personally think the Boss is a viable choice for those who change oil frequently and want to leave the filter in for several changes. It’s very well built.

 

[skaughtz]

I would not say the Boss has “terrible” efficiency. It’s just not as good as Fram Ultra/Endurance. Its efficiency is measurably better than most other M&H filters, especially the Wix XP.

I personally think the Boss is a viable choice for those who change oil frequently and want to leave the filter in for several changes. It’s very well built.

The Boss was the only filter that I came across here that was reasonably priced and had a backing to the filter media (the cut videos show it to be some kind of polymer?). My Camry burns oil like all 2AZ-FE engines do and I am going to start adding a quart of Lucas Heavy-Duty Oil Stabilizer when I change the oil to thicken it up and increase the oil pressure, so I am more concerned about putting a filter on that I know will not warp or tear under those conditions.

 

[skaughtz]

How long (miles) were those Fram's used? I'm still using the Ultra despite the change, I only go about 5000 to 7000 miles on a filter so I'm assuming a filter rated at 20k can easily do it's job without killing itself in less than half the rated duration.

When I was under the impression that the Ultras were still the same as old, I changed the Camry every 5k miles and would change the filter every 10k. The Civic engine is pristine, so she gets 7.5k and I would change the filter at 15k. Now that my Camry is burning more oil than she was in the past due to work commute changes and more short around town trips over the past 3 years, I am going to start changing her every 3k.

I like to DIY and I drive my cars until something happens that is more expensive or time consuming than it is worth to fix. Every mile out of the Camry is a cherry on the sundae at this point.

 

[skaughtz]

Well okay then. I am more than happy to pay a bit extra if it is constructed like the OG Ultra was (which was always cheap for the quality). The FE7317 is fine for my Civic, but I am not too keen on the idea of throwing the smaller 4967 on my Camry. I see the above post mentioning the 3614 and 3600. Does anyone have any experience using those or another number on a 5/6th Gen Camry 2.4L?

After searching the forum more I got ants in my pants while I was out running errands and grabbed the FE7317 for the Civic and the FE3614 for the Camry, so I will roll with that to start. The 3600 just seemed a bit long since it hangs under the engine, but I will assess it the next time I am under the car since it was the exact same diameter as the 3614.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Well okay then. I am more than happy to pay a bit extra if it is constructed like the OG Ultra was (which was always cheap for the quality). The FE7317 is fine for my Civic, but I am not too keen on the idea of throwing the smaller 4967 on my Camry. I see the above post mentioning the 3614 and 3600. Does anyone have any experience using those or another number on a 5/6th Gen Camry 2.4L?

Calling @53' Stude did you use the 3614?

Skaughtz, if the gasket diameters are close or identical, there is physical clearance (doesn’t hang down past oil pan or crossmember), you should be fine. I’m using the FE3600 on my zero turn and FE3600/3614 on my Transit Connect with 2.0.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

The Boss was the only filter that I came across here that was reasonably priced and had a backing to the filter media (the cut videos show it to be some kind of polymer?). My Camry burns oil like all 2AZ-FE engines do and I am going to start adding a quart of Lucas Heavy-Duty Oil Stabilizer when I change the oil to thicken it up and increase the oil pressure, so I am more concerned about putting a filter on that I know will not warp or tear under those conditions.

For the love of all that is holy, please DO NOT use the Lucas! It quite literally dilutes the add pack in whatever oil you run, and does not help or fix any issues.

Get yourself a 6-pack of the HPL engine cleaner and substitute one quart of the EC30 with every oil change. Go up one grade (if you use Xw20, step up to Xw30) and when paired with the EC, the more viscous oil should help consumption but the EC will also help clear carbon in the oil ring. Do the 5k OCIs like you mentioned, and change oil and filter (regardless of which filter you pick).

After 2 OCIs, if there’s any hope for your engine, you should be seeing reduced consumption by now. With 30k use of HPL EC, it should be almost carbon-buildup free. This route is safer and much more likely to succeed and extend the life of your engine from its current path.

 

[skaughtz]

For the love of all that is holy, please DO NOT use the Lucas! It quite literally dilutes the add pack in whatever oil you run, and does not help or fix any issues.

Get yourself a 6-pack of the HPL engine cleaner and substitute one quart of the EC30 with every oil change. Go up one grade (if you use Xw20, step up to Xw30) and when paired with the EC, the more viscous oil should help consumption but the EC will also help clear carbon in the oil ring. Do the 5k OCIs like you mentioned, and change oil and filter (regardless of which filter you pick).

After 2 OCIs, if there’s any hope for your engine, you should be seeing reduced consumption by now. With 30k use of HPL EC, it should be almost carbon-buildup free. This route is safer and much more likely to succeed and extend the life of your engine from its current path.

I have never used the Lucas stabilizer before, but I can only imagine from your instance against using it that it has been the subject of debate here before. I was concerned about the dilution, but more concerned about the cylinders being destroyed as a result of burning oil so I was willing to give the Lucas a shot. I am assuming that this is the HPL Engine Cleaner that you are referring to? Is it only sold online?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I have never used the Lucas stabilizer before, but I can only imagine from your instance against using it that it has been the subject of debate here before. I was concerned about the dilution, but more concerned about the cylinders being destroyed as a result of burning oil so I was willing to give the Lucas a shot. I am assuming that this is the HPL Engine Cleaner that you are referring to? Is it only sold online?

That’s it, yes it’s online, but if you call Mary Jane at (815) 932-3288 and order that way with BITOG15 promo code, not only will you get 15% off but you’ll also get $25 flat rate shipping for a case.