Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Unless your engine has startup rattle that prefers a silicone ADBV, or the engine contains sludge, a basic Purolator Classic filter-type is all you need for a long, satisfying lifetime of the vehicle.
Blackstone says oil filter brand doesn't matter!!?
- Thread starter danwat1234
- Start date
- Status
T7,
I think you pretty much have it.
To the extent that oil consumption is a surrogate measure of engine wear, I see very little wear over fairly high mileages.
For example, the '97 Accord required a quart of oil 4K into its third run of PP.
To have consumption of a quart in 4K at 189K total seems pretty reasonable.
If I changed the oil more often ( it will go 6K total on this run), I might say that it uses no oil at all.
My point is that the oil filter used is probably not decisive in engine life, and this car has seen a variety over the 125K we have had it.
When we are talking passenger cars, the engine will certainly last at least as long as the rest of the car, as long as we change the oil and the oil filter on some reasonable basis.
In this case, I think [censored] is right.
I think you pretty much have it.
To the extent that oil consumption is a surrogate measure of engine wear, I see very little wear over fairly high mileages.
For example, the '97 Accord required a quart of oil 4K into its third run of PP.
To have consumption of a quart in 4K at 189K total seems pretty reasonable.
If I changed the oil more often ( it will go 6K total on this run), I might say that it uses no oil at all.
My point is that the oil filter used is probably not decisive in engine life, and this car has seen a variety over the 125K we have had it.
When we are talking passenger cars, the engine will certainly last at least as long as the rest of the car, as long as we change the oil and the oil filter on some reasonable basis.
In this case, I think [censored] is right.
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Unless your engine has startup rattle that prefers a silicone ADBV, or the engine contains sludge, a basic Purolator Classic filter-type is all you need for a long, satisfying lifetime of the vehicle.
Looks like this oil filter section should be removed, no need, all same, all same result. Blackstone says so.
I, in error, will continue to spend $3 twice a year more for a better efficiency oil filter, they do exist I'm duped into believing, and save $30 twice per year NOT doing oil test samples. That is a savings of $54 even though foolish I'll take it. Fifteen years more of such filter foolishness is all that's left +- ten years, so why not live wildly and do what's wrong.
Unless your engine has startup rattle that prefers a silicone ADBV, or the engine contains sludge, a basic Purolator Classic filter-type is all you need for a long, satisfying lifetime of the vehicle.
Looks like this oil filter section should be removed, no need, all same, all same result. Blackstone says so.
I, in error, will continue to spend $3 twice a year more for a better efficiency oil filter, they do exist I'm duped into believing, and save $30 twice per year NOT doing oil test samples. That is a savings of $54 even though foolish I'll take it. Fifteen years more of such filter foolishness is all that's left +- ten years, so why not live wildly and do what's wrong.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Unless your engine has startup rattle that prefers a silicone ADBV, or the engine contains sludge, a basic Purolator Classic filter-type is all you need for a long, satisfying lifetime of the vehicle.
Looks like this oil filter section should be removed, no need, all same, all same result.
Where did I say all filters offer the same result?
If you desire driving your vehicle to a junkyard in x-amount of years having a spotless inner engine, go right ahead. If you desire such "overkill" in oil filters, go right ahead and pay more.
Sure your filter will clean better, but in today's world of hi-tech automobiles and light trucks/SUVs, do you really need it?
The answer is NO. But hey, don't let anyone here stop you from paying $3 more for your filters and having the next junkyard owner of your engine many years from now be thankful for providing him with a spotless inner engine.
Lets not stop there either. Be sure to buy a set of 70K tires, 25K prior to retiring your vehicle. That way, the person buying those used tires from a junk yard will benefit greatly.
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Unless your engine has startup rattle that prefers a silicone ADBV, or the engine contains sludge, a basic Purolator Classic filter-type is all you need for a long, satisfying lifetime of the vehicle.
Looks like this oil filter section should be removed, no need, all same, all same result.
Where did I say all filters offer the same result?
If you desire driving your vehicle to a junkyard in x-amount of years having a spotless inner engine, go right ahead. If you desire such "overkill" in oil filters, go right ahead and pay more.
Sure your filter will clean better, but in today's world of hi-tech automobiles and light trucks/SUVs, do you really need it?
The answer is NO. But hey, don't let anyone here stop you from paying $3 more for your filters and having the next junkyard owner of your engine many years from now be thankful for providing him with a spotless inner engine.
Lets not stop there either. Be sure to buy a set of 70K tires, 25K prior to retiring your vehicle. That way, the person buying those used tires from a junk yard will benefit greatly.
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Unless your engine has startup rattle that prefers a silicone ADBV, or the engine contains sludge, a basic Purolator Classic filter-type is all you need for a long, satisfying lifetime of the vehicle.
Looks like this oil filter section should be removed, no need, all same, all same result.
Where did I say all filters offer the same result?
If you desire driving your vehicle to a junkyard in x-amount of years having a spotless inner engine, go right ahead. If you desire such "overkill" in oil filters, go right ahead and pay more.
Sure your filter will clean better, but in today's world of hi-tech automobiles and light trucks/SUVs, do you really need it?
The answer is NO. But hey, don't let anyone here stop you from paying $3 more for your filters and having the next junkyard owner of your engine many years from now be thankful for providing him with a spotless inner engine.
Lets not stop there either. Be sure to buy a set of 70K tires, 25K prior to retiring your vehicle. That way, the person buying those used tires from a junk yard will benefit greatly.
Great logic for someone with over 5,ooo posts and a cash supporter of the site. Some vehicle owners believe in maintaining their vehicle for potential resale, not to dump in the junkyard. If you're so hard up and thus unwilling to pay an extra $3, then by all means, let the junkman have a trashed engine and bald tires. But do everyone a favor and make sure you keep your junk off the road. Then you can donate more of your precious extra $3 cash so you can be a most-favored BITOG forum member and post over 5,ooo ridiculous messages.
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Unless your engine has startup rattle that prefers a silicone ADBV, or the engine contains sludge, a basic Purolator Classic filter-type is all you need for a long, satisfying lifetime of the vehicle.
Looks like this oil filter section should be removed, no need, all same, all same result.
Where did I say all filters offer the same result?
If you desire driving your vehicle to a junkyard in x-amount of years having a spotless inner engine, go right ahead. If you desire such "overkill" in oil filters, go right ahead and pay more.
Sure your filter will clean better, but in today's world of hi-tech automobiles and light trucks/SUVs, do you really need it?
The answer is NO. But hey, don't let anyone here stop you from paying $3 more for your filters and having the next junkyard owner of your engine many years from now be thankful for providing him with a spotless inner engine.
Lets not stop there either. Be sure to buy a set of 70K tires, 25K prior to retiring your vehicle. That way, the person buying those used tires from a junk yard will benefit greatly.
Great logic for someone with over 5,ooo posts and a cash supporter of the site. Some vehicle owners believe in maintaining their vehicle for potential resale, not to dump in the junkyard. If you're so hard up and thus unwilling to pay an extra $3, then by all means, let the junkman have a trashed engine and bald tires. But do everyone a favor and make sure you keep your junk off the road. Then you can donate more of your precious extra $3 cash so you can be a most-favored BITOG forum member and post over 5,ooo ridiculous messages.
Last edited:
For crying out loud...
Blackstone indicated that they see little difference in OUA between filter brands. It actually makes some sense.
The filter forum discusses construction, filter failures, blah blah, and in no way is superfluous because a filter that just holds up to service (as opposed to plugging an oil port from a collapsed media) may not be materially differentiable to a high end filter.
A standard purolator isn't going to junk an engine before you trade, and a polished dipstick isn't going to get you any more when you come to sell your car.
Blackstone indicated that they see little difference in OUA between filter brands. It actually makes some sense.
The filter forum discusses construction, filter failures, blah blah, and in no way is superfluous because a filter that just holds up to service (as opposed to plugging an oil port from a collapsed media) may not be materially differentiable to a high end filter.
A standard purolator isn't going to junk an engine before you trade, and a polished dipstick isn't going to get you any more when you come to sell your car.
Originally Posted By: Augustus
Great logic for someone with over 5,ooo posts and a cash supporter of the site. Some vehicle owners believe in maintaining their vehicle for potential resale, not to dump in the junkyard. If you're so hard up and thus unwilling to pay an extra $3, then by all means, let the junkman have a trashed engine and bald tires. But do everyone a favor and make sure you keep your junk off the road. Then you can donate more of your precious extra $3 cash so you can be a most-favored BITOG forum member and post over 5,ooo ridiculous messages.
This is way out of line. If you can't carry your argument with facts and logic, insults certainly won't do it. An apology is in order here, I think.
Great logic for someone with over 5,ooo posts and a cash supporter of the site. Some vehicle owners believe in maintaining their vehicle for potential resale, not to dump in the junkyard. If you're so hard up and thus unwilling to pay an extra $3, then by all means, let the junkman have a trashed engine and bald tires. But do everyone a favor and make sure you keep your junk off the road. Then you can donate more of your precious extra $3 cash so you can be a most-favored BITOG forum member and post over 5,ooo ridiculous messages.
This is way out of line. If you can't carry your argument with facts and logic, insults certainly won't do it. An apology is in order here, I think.
My observation is yes they, Blackstone, think what they say is right, and are not lying, but obviously there ARE differences is oil filters, based on almost 10 years of bitog oil filter discussions, as well as common sense. That could be called a fact I think. To me, what they say is we can't test well enough to see a difference, rather than there is no difference. They aren't going to say we can't test well enough when they are in the business of selling tests.
I will still buy a better oil filter if I like it, just as I may buy a better loaf of bread or whatever. I don't worry about $3 twice a year wasted on the next owner. I am the owner now.
If I put brand new tires on a car and in two months it goes to another owner so be it, life goes on. I think many people do that actually, most used cars I have bought had near new tires on them.
I will still buy a better oil filter if I like it, just as I may buy a better loaf of bread or whatever. I don't worry about $3 twice a year wasted on the next owner. I am the owner now.
If I put brand new tires on a car and in two months it goes to another owner so be it, life goes on. I think many people do that actually, most used cars I have bought had near new tires on them.
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
My observation is yes they, Blackstone, think what they say is right, and are not lying, but obviously there ARE differences is oil filters, based on almost 10 years of bitog oil filter discussions, as well as common sense. That could be called a fact I think. To me, what they say is we can't test well enough to see a difference, rather than there is no difference. They aren't going to say we can't test well enough when they are in the business of selling tests.
I will still buy a better oil filter if I like it, just as I may buy a better loaf of bread or whatever. I don't worry about $3 twice a year wasted on the next owner. I am the owner now.
If I put brand new tires on a car and in two months it goes to another owner so be it, life goes on. I think many people do that actually, most used cars I have bought had near new tires on them.
I agree, and it has been shown with Bypass filter systems that oil lasts longer and stays cleaner. Not exactly apples to apples but it does prove better filtering equals cleaner longer lasting oil. Does it matter in the real world? Maybe it does, but it takes more accurate testing equipment than B_S has. I'll blow an extra $10 a year per car on a better filters, and use cheap ones for the beater.
My observation is yes they, Blackstone, think what they say is right, and are not lying, but obviously there ARE differences is oil filters, based on almost 10 years of bitog oil filter discussions, as well as common sense. That could be called a fact I think. To me, what they say is we can't test well enough to see a difference, rather than there is no difference. They aren't going to say we can't test well enough when they are in the business of selling tests.
I will still buy a better oil filter if I like it, just as I may buy a better loaf of bread or whatever. I don't worry about $3 twice a year wasted on the next owner. I am the owner now.
If I put brand new tires on a car and in two months it goes to another owner so be it, life goes on. I think many people do that actually, most used cars I have bought had near new tires on them.
I agree, and it has been shown with Bypass filter systems that oil lasts longer and stays cleaner. Not exactly apples to apples but it does prove better filtering equals cleaner longer lasting oil. Does it matter in the real world? Maybe it does, but it takes more accurate testing equipment than B_S has. I'll blow an extra $10 a year per car on a better filters, and use cheap ones for the beater.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I agree, especially when measured using the B/S method.
Some filters last longer, some may have marginally better performance with smaller particles, but the comparison by insolubles and particle counts in samples pulled from sumps is not how to choose an OF.
http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbullet...gine%20Wear.pdf
I agree, especially when measured using the B/S method.
Some filters last longer, some may have marginally better performance with smaller particles, but the comparison by insolubles and particle counts in samples pulled from sumps is not how to choose an OF.
http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbullet...gine%20Wear.pdf
IMO, one of the good questions asked here (ZO) is exactly how big are these 'insolubles'? If they are in the 5um range (very fine filtration) then there likely isn't a big difference. But, when one gets into the 20um or greater range it would seem logical that a filter with a significantly better beta would make some difference.
And as mentioned, Bstone isn't going to recommend an oil filter and didn't address filter construction at all.
And as mentioned, Bstone isn't going to recommend an oil filter and didn't address filter construction at all.
The number #1 reason an oil filter matters - is how fast the oil gets into engine, which is a function of the filter getting oil in the engine and its flow rate. This is what does or doesn't wear the engine mostly. This is why a Pure One is better than a Classic.
The number #2 reason is filtering the oil assuming it doesn't get bypassed. Most oil filters are great at this, except for racing apps or if the bypass is not effective.
The number #2 reason is filtering the oil assuming it doesn't get bypassed. Most oil filters are great at this, except for racing apps or if the bypass is not effective.
Within a high bound of reason, a filter will not affect the flow rate of the oil.Car engines have positive displacement pumps, and unless the pump bypass operates, exactly the same amount of oil per revolution will be going to the engine.
Originally Posted By: ffracer
The number #1 reason an oil filter matters - is how fast the oil gets into engine, which is a function of the filter getting oil in the engine and its flow rate. This is what does or doesn't wear the engine mostly. This is why a Pure One is better than a Classic.
The number #2 reason is filtering the oil assuming it doesn't get bypassed. Most oil filters are great at this, except for racing apps or if the bypass is not effective.
OK, I'm having a brain freeze. I thought that the Pure One was a more restrictive filter than the Purolator Classic. In my mind, a less restrictive filter (ala "Classic") would provide for a better flow rate.
What am I missing?
The number #1 reason an oil filter matters - is how fast the oil gets into engine, which is a function of the filter getting oil in the engine and its flow rate. This is what does or doesn't wear the engine mostly. This is why a Pure One is better than a Classic.
The number #2 reason is filtering the oil assuming it doesn't get bypassed. Most oil filters are great at this, except for racing apps or if the bypass is not effective.
OK, I'm having a brain freeze. I thought that the Pure One was a more restrictive filter than the Purolator Classic. In my mind, a less restrictive filter (ala "Classic") would provide for a better flow rate.
What am I missing?
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Originally Posted By: ffracer
The number #1 reason an oil filter matters - is how fast the oil gets into engine, which is a function of the filter getting oil in the engine and its flow rate. This is what does or doesn't wear the engine mostly. This is why a Pure One is better than a Classic.
The number #2 reason is filtering the oil assuming it doesn't get bypassed. Most oil filters are great at this, except for racing apps or if the bypass is not effective.
OK, I'm having a brain freeze. I thought that the Pure One was a more restrictive filter than the Purolator Classic. In my mind, a less restrictive filter (ala "Classic") would provide for a better flow rate.
What am I missing?
I'm not sure if the Classic will actually flow better than a PureOne ... never seen the test data. But there was some actual test data on a PureOne and it flowed very well IMO ... it can flow way more oil with very little pressure drop than 99.9999% of the cars on the road can deliver.
Flow Test Data Here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451
Originally Posted By: ffracer
The number #1 reason an oil filter matters - is how fast the oil gets into engine, which is a function of the filter getting oil in the engine and its flow rate. This is what does or doesn't wear the engine mostly. This is why a Pure One is better than a Classic.
The number #2 reason is filtering the oil assuming it doesn't get bypassed. Most oil filters are great at this, except for racing apps or if the bypass is not effective.
OK, I'm having a brain freeze. I thought that the Pure One was a more restrictive filter than the Purolator Classic. In my mind, a less restrictive filter (ala "Classic") would provide for a better flow rate.
What am I missing?
I'm not sure if the Classic will actually flow better than a PureOne ... never seen the test data. But there was some actual test data on a PureOne and it flowed very well IMO ... it can flow way more oil with very little pressure drop than 99.9999% of the cars on the road can deliver.
Flow Test Data Here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451
i think the classic flows better than the p1
I will come out of the closet on this one.
I have used Orange Cans of Death since I was 19 and have never had a problem with one. They all seem to filter out the particulate matter. I think the Orange Can will not hold the amount of dirt as will some of the other brands, so I sometimes change the filter halfway I change the oil. But the Orange Can has never failed on me within a 5,000 mile limit.
It all boils down to what is cost effective.
I have also used on odd occasions Motorcrafts, Microguards, Mobil filters, and Super-Techs. I have had no issues with any of them. I keep an eye on my oil color and I also smell it to determine if it seems to be degrading.
If a filter fails I think you will notice the oil getting darker rather fast.
I think just about all the filters on the American market are OK.
I do want to find a good extended life filter that can be counted to go for two oil changes, (about 14,000 miles maximum for both together) and NOT cost a lot of money. Any suggestions?
I have used Orange Cans of Death since I was 19 and have never had a problem with one. They all seem to filter out the particulate matter. I think the Orange Can will not hold the amount of dirt as will some of the other brands, so I sometimes change the filter halfway I change the oil. But the Orange Can has never failed on me within a 5,000 mile limit.
It all boils down to what is cost effective.
I have also used on odd occasions Motorcrafts, Microguards, Mobil filters, and Super-Techs. I have had no issues with any of them. I keep an eye on my oil color and I also smell it to determine if it seems to be degrading.
If a filter fails I think you will notice the oil getting darker rather fast.
I think just about all the filters on the American market are OK.
I do want to find a good extended life filter that can be counted to go for two oil changes, (about 14,000 miles maximum for both together) and NOT cost a lot of money. Any suggestions?
The orange cans are most notorious for having leaky anti-drainbacks, and bypassing way to early with a poorly fitting bypass valve. They are last on my list of oil filters. Price wise, a house brand filter like a Powerflo or a Federated can be had plenty cheap... cheaper than the orange can usually, and they are built a little tougher. Learn what an orange can looks like inside, so you can spot one when someone paints it white or green and writes something else on it.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I would counter that in a DIESEL engine excessive insolubles are one of the most damaging things to an engine-causing stuck rings, bearing wear, even clogged drainback holes in extreme cases-so a filter with better filtration is worth it. Newer gas motors in good condition don't seem to generate a lot of crud under reasonable OCIs anyway.
most of those insolubles are combustion byproducts blown by the rings.
I would counter that in a DIESEL engine excessive insolubles are one of the most damaging things to an engine-causing stuck rings, bearing wear, even clogged drainback holes in extreme cases-so a filter with better filtration is worth it. Newer gas motors in good condition don't seem to generate a lot of crud under reasonable OCIs anyway.
most of those insolubles are combustion byproducts blown by the rings.
And that is why I have no problem running $2 Quaker State filters..
- Status
Similar threads
