When 'multi-national' companies are making our main geopolitical adversary stronger than us it's not good. A few years ago I read that the average BoD member was paid nealy $300K a year (for attending a few meetings a year) and many were on more than one Board (in addition to their regular job). The CEO of one company sits on the Board of another etc...Is it any wonder the wealth gap is widening in America. It's gotten even worse with these companies having so much sway with our elected officials. I won't go further into this for RSP reasons but these are the 'elites' who fly into Davos on private jets, eat steak and caviar but tell the rest of us to eat insects and take mass transit. It won't end well IMO.
Does Where Oil Filters are Made Matter?
- Thread starter RagnarokCamaro
- Start date
Yes, that's why I used the words "big driver". You know pretty much everything comes down to corporate profits when it comes to the operation of companirs. They aren't into it for fun, lol.
They are not, or at least not alone, and it isn't that simple. Yes our economy, and much of the industrialized worlds have fueled China's growth but US firms using that low-cost manufacturing resource have also allowed an incredible amount of wealth to be generated here as well as made advanced tech, such as what we are typing on, affordably available to the masses. If we didn't trade and take advantage of what China offered other nations still would have, and they would have benefited from the boosts to their economies, while we had not. Also, the relationship works both ways, while what China offers (low-cost, mass manufacturing primarily), can be found elsewhere, we still 'hold the checkbook', and more importantly we are still leaders in innovation, something China is not. One additional benefit is that the funds freed up by using low cost regions allow for more investment in R&D, etc. and hiring of higher skilled workers domestically. Admittedly, it is distasteful though....
Do I trust them as a whole? Well, having sat in meetings where we designated the products to be manufactured there w/ the understanding that the IP would be stolen in about 2 years (but at that point, our product lifecycle would have moved on), heck no. But you know that going in and plan accordingly.
As far as BoD members, when you factor in the prep and sub committees, reporting, oversight and liability, the do a bit more than attend a few meetings a year...
Yeah, I want stuff made here too. The best advice I can give anyone is to vote with their dollar & try to find an american made item. Sometimes it's just unavoidable. I was probably around 8 yrs old seeing Perot with his stick & board on TV. I'd thought in my head that he'd put a lot of thought into whatever he was showing so he should win. LOL
True…
But any business that is in business to break even… Is SOON out of business.
Much less losing money… Gone shorter than that.
I’m no fan of the last 60 plus years with the loss of many millions of jobs going elsewhere. Both sides have made that possible and made that happen.
Yes, of course. But there's a big difference between a business making a decent profit vs being greedy be able to pay those CEOs millions of dollars for sitting in an office trying to push a company to it's limits all the time. The sad part about it all is if all those companies didn't go off-shore, their prices would be so high that nobody would buy their stuff. What's ironic, is that people want products as cheap as possible, and want to be paid the most possible to make a good living ... but in this country you can not have both of those things happening at the same time. High wages also drives high product costs.
Well whether you or I like it or not…
People who are heads of large businesses make a whole lot of money…
How about Gates ?
He made billions… and billions…
Because he made profits and products that hundreds of millions of people bought and used.
How many people did he NOT pay well ?
And let’s be real… The idea of the leadership running a country giving and “ distributing “ the wealth is a total garbage model… You think that’s great ?
It always fails… With many more impoverished in the history of any nation doing that.
There’s a reason that certain people in sports make more money than others… The “ franchise “ players get huge money. The guys at the end of the bench make a whole, whole, whole lot less.
The owners of those professional sports teams make even way, at more money…
And yet people via envy and jealousy scorn people in corporations making a lot of money ?
How about all those massively overpaid actors and movie makers in Hollywood ?
What about the many other people involved in making those films ? Maybe those lovely actors should be forced to give away 80 percent of what the make to them ?
Just saying… that mindset and thinking can be applied to all kinds of circumstances.
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Who said it should be like that? ... not anything I was implying for sure. Think you're not getting some of my points on the connection between people wanting high pay and low prices ... it can't really happen in this country and that's because high wages drives high prices and it's why many companies out-source. On a side note, big corporations should pay their fair share of taxes - many don't.
This discussion is going way too far off track and this thread will most likely be shut down soon.
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A member of a BoD makes more in a year than a police officer, a registered nurse, a teacher etc... put together ...and that's just on one Board....as I said many serve on several boards besides their day job. I'm not very sympathetic to how hard they 'work'. In fact I think many are way out of touch with reality in America as they vote each other big salaries and bonuses. A medical doctor is a pauper compared to most of these guys and gals and he/she has peoples lives in their hands.
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Well again…. You keep hanging up on people running businesses making too much money … “ Being greedy “
So Who gets to decide who makes too much money ?
You… Or me ?
I think neither of us should. Nor anyone else for that matter.
Prices are being dictated by massive inflation. Devaluation of currency.
Which has been a problem for a whole lot longer than many of us have thought about. Even 2 percent year after year after year after adds up over decades.
4) when the profit goes way up sell before the cheap quality comes out.
5) milk the now stinking carcass for maximum profit.
6) sell to someone who can build it up again.
Ok, that's enough twisting and accusing. It's a fact that some companies are driven by greed, and it can be even more so in the latest situation associated with this current inflation. You really think no company is greedy and only looks out for the comsumer? You got all upset when Fram "cheapened" the Ultra, but what you say now fits into good justification for their move - to stay in buisness and not lose profits due to supposed rising costs.
I ain’t accusing you of anything
I’m simply asking legitimate questions…
Who gets to decide makes too much money ?
You ? Me ? Someone else ? Or a group of other people ?
Look … No system is perfect.
Some are much better and have historically far better results than others.
And in regards to the Fram change ?
I’m not buying a welfare Fram Ultra. Because it was cheapened. I don’t care about the reason,
That’s what I do. You … or I can utilize our “ franchise “ right by who we choose to buy from.
Just like I ain’t buying Nathan’s hotdogs… Obviously cheapened and changed for the worse.
I vote with my ability to purchase from a better manufacturer. Of which I have gladly found to be one or two of them.
I obviously lean towards a different economic outlook than you do. Not totally different. Just we have some differences there to a degree. And that’s the way it goes at times.
I don’t disagree with you that there are big, huge corporations with a number of people making a whole, whole lot of money. And their decisions have not been helpful to this country or its people.
There are other existing reasons that those decisions have been made. I believe that is true too.
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How many have you reported to? This is my world...a piece of my day job...and my Wife's also. Not being a dink, but this is in my wheelhouse.
Few if any of who you mention, put together, would be qualified to sit on the board of a major company. An effective and diverse board (as in expertise and experience; funding, the tech, accounting, etc.), aside from being the representatives of the shareholders are also sounding boards for management's plans for the business and are also there to call bull on any shenanigans...its ugly, but it happens. They have the power to fire the CEO, happens although usually as a resignation. Also, post Sarbanes Oxley, public company Audit Committees have real liability and take their financial and governance responsibilities very seriously.
Exec comp has gotten out of hand, I think most would agree. Is it as grotesque as the VC folks?? No, still we do need a bit of a reset. But to say a typical BoD is a bunch of overpaid out of touch do-littles is just wrong.
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Zee… I respect your very, very high level of intelligence, ability to do the things you can do, and how much you add on here.
It’s people like you that make this a very educational, entertaining, and good place to be. You are a good, good guy my friend.
I mean that one hundred percent.
I apologize if certain things in post came across in a bad way.
This would be a much more fun and better conversation in person… With us chowing down on some smoked beef ribs or pork ribs.
It’s people like you that make this a very educational, entertaining, and good place to be. You are a good, good guy my friend.
I mean that one hundred percent.
I apologize if certain things in post came across in a bad way.
This would be a much more fun and better conversation in person… With us chowing down on some smoked beef ribs or pork ribs.
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Every company's goal is to make money. Some go to more extremes than others to make as much profit as possible, and sometimes greed can factor in to that, depending who's driving the company. One way is to move manufacturing (and even engineering) to other countries - the focus subject of this thread.
Consumers want low prices, companies want high profits. Bingo, match made in heaven - been going on for decades. Those same companies could keep all their operations here and employ people here, but costs would be higher, which means products would cost more to the consumer. Most of those companies would probably still be able to survive, but be making less profits. Anyone here can make as much money as they can legally do, but sometimes it's greed for more profits that drives companies moving off-shore, and it has been slowly erroding the US industries footprint here. If this county ever needs to sustain itself on it's own, we're in a world of hurt ... ie, the chip shortage as an example. But magnify that by 100 and see what happens if it ever hits the fan.
Yeah, most people these days buy what they "perceive" (real or not) as the "best bang for the buck" or "best ROI". The way oil filters change, and how often filter companies change hands, don't be surprised if no oil filters are still made here in the future. How much greed does it take to destroy a company? It can and does happen to some.
Thankfully, in a "normal" economy (not high inflation like seen recently) it's somewhat self regulating, and prices driven by greed gets weeded out by consumers being way more focused on ROI, and anyone being overy greedy either gets back in line, or fails. Losing sales will kill greed.
But as we've all seen with this latest inflation run, I believe that lots of companies jumped on the inflation train just because they could to make more profits. Anyone could jack up prices in that situation, and nobody would really question it because it's happening everywhere. It can become a self feeding, destructive situation, leading to a recession when everyone says enough is enough and stop buying a lot of stuff they would normally want or even need. Guess people would be running oil filters out to 30K miles or 5 years, lol.
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To answer the OPs question in the title, yes it matters.
Macro economically, buying a USA produced product helps our country by employing its citizens and the benefits that come from it.
Micro economically, we as individual customers benefit when we buy for the lowest price, independent of where it is made.
So if both are good, how do we break this tie? Here are my thoughts:
1. Performance - Work to get the most accurate, complete data on the performance, features and materials of the product.
2. Manufacturing - Consider if the company's core competency is engineering and making of the product. Check the company's history of making quality products.
3. Trust - Weigh how a company goes about marketing and selling its product, i.e. do they work to be transparent and honest, can they be trusted?
When I have these then I can weigh the different prices and determine value. If the USA made product can check all the boxes and is equal or moderately higher in price, I purchase the USA made product.
All of your thoughts and insights are welcome!
Macro economically, buying a USA produced product helps our country by employing its citizens and the benefits that come from it.
Micro economically, we as individual customers benefit when we buy for the lowest price, independent of where it is made.
So if both are good, how do we break this tie? Here are my thoughts:
1. Performance - Work to get the most accurate, complete data on the performance, features and materials of the product.
2. Manufacturing - Consider if the company's core competency is engineering and making of the product. Check the company's history of making quality products.
3. Trust - Weigh how a company goes about marketing and selling its product, i.e. do they work to be transparent and honest, can they be trusted?
When I have these then I can weigh the different prices and determine value. If the USA made product can check all the boxes and is equal or moderately higher in price, I purchase the USA made product.
All of your thoughts and insights are welcome!
I'm in the same train of thought as you are. I started this thread to address that in a way. As I've said, I've learned that CoO isn't as big of a factor as thought in quality, but I'm still somewhat ignorant as to the how the inner workings are. The made in Mexico filters I have from amsoil still raise the quality question for me. It's obviously a well established brand, as are other alike purolator, microgard, fram endurance, etc., I still wonder about quality control despite having adequate facilities, such as having American oversight at the assembly plants for filters
