Avoiding rust in the rust belt states?

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by grampi
For daily drivers, rust is a fact of life. It can't be stopped. Delayed maybe, but not stopped. The only way to avoid it is to park the vehicle as soon as salt hits the roads, and don't get it out again until a good rain has rinsed all the salt off of the roads...


Stop the rust, no but oil based rustproofing applied regularly definitely delays rust by a lot, no maybe about it.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by grampi
For daily drivers, rust is a fact of life. It can't be stopped. Delayed maybe, but not stopped. The only way to avoid it is to park the vehicle as soon as salt hits the roads, and don't get it out again until a good rain has rinsed all the salt off of the roads...


Stop the rust, no but oil based rustproofing applied regularly definitely delays rust by a lot, no maybe about it.


Either way, the only way to completely avoid rust is by not driving the vehicle in the winter time...

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
If its a new(er) GM truck with the factory wax still somewhat intact don't use oil based sprays like Fluid Film. It softens the coating to the point it rubs off just putting your finger on it exposing bare metal. Another negative (IMO) about oil based sprays is how they stay wet and sticky, attracting sand, dirt, grit like flypaper. In my NH winter conditions thats not desirable. They use a lot of salt and sand on the hills around here which makes working under the truck horrible. I moved on from FF to a product called RP-342. Recommended by a Canadian. Its a military grade cosmoline wax in a spray can. Its self healing, flows good during application. Has no tacky sticky oil. In the cold the surface gets pretty hard so salt, sand, grit beads up and rinses off with water. Wish I had found this years ago.

Pic under the rear bumper after driving through snow, salt, sand.
I'll have to check that out but you are 100% wrong regarding oil sprays. They are not sticky at all and are just a fine oil that creeps. It's actually quite nice to wrench on an oil sprayed car, the fasteners also get oil sprayed. They do collect dust, but if you wash your car once per year it is not an issue. Usually, the oil visible on the body is from when they spray the hinges and it creeps out. I live in a large rust belt city that sees plenty of salt and oil spraying is the only way to stop rust.

You quote me, tell me I'm 100% wrong, then go on to say oil sprays "are not sticky at all".. "Just a "fine oil that creeps".. Dust that "washes off".. "Quite nice to wrench an oil sprayed car".. "oil spraying is the only way to stop rust".. I won't say you're 100% wrong because you are entitled to your opinions. Just.. wow. That's nowhere close to what I experienced with FF. Months after a FF application I'm covered in grease, sand, grime anywhere I come in contact with something sprayed. Nuts and bolts are slippery. Lifting requires careful placement on the frame so it doesn't start to move as I'm jacking the truck up. The FF aerosol I used stays "sticky" forever until it washes away and falls off in chunks heavy with the sand, dirt, grime stuck to it. I have a year and a half worth of pics showing the progression of FF. Plan on posting them at some point. And no, oil spraying is not the only way to stop rust. Because there is no way to stop rust. Just slow it down with different methods. Oil, wax, paint, stay home. They all work to some degree.

 

[DejaVue]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Just moved (part time) to PA from rust free FL. Good god, the road salt and sand is a downright physical assault on the underneath of my car.

What kind of car? Mazdas and Subarus (older ones anyway) tend to have a tough time in the rustbelt. Rust is also a main reason I didn't buy a Ford Escape even though I really like the vehicle overall.

Some states really overdo it on the salt and other mixtures they put on the roads. The people in those states may not need good tires because of it, but they might need to replace their brake lines every three years.

 

[caprice_2nv]

You can choose between getting all greasy working on your car, or getting rust in your eyes and not getting bolts out at all. I'll take the grease myself.

I do most of the wrenching on my 1984 and 1983 cars myself. The 1983 is the winter beater. Usually the bolts come out no problem. A 5 year old car that's never been undercoated sometimes can't say the same thing. If you don't want to slow down the rusting to next to nothing (like 30+ years in my experience) then don't undercoat it.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
You can choose between getting all greasy working on your car, or getting rust in your eyes and not getting bolts out at all. I'll take the grease myself.


Same here. The dirt and grease doesn't bother me. It does accumulate a lot over the years though. If it does bother some, then I'm sure the first time their brake line fails they will be thrilled by the experience. They may end up staining their underwear though, so I'm not sure if the mess can totally be avoided.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Every 5 years or so I completely clean out the old undercoat with spray 9 and a hot pressure wash. Last time I used a wire wheel and sanded the frame down to bare metal then repainted with tremclad/rustoleum before respraying with Krown rust control. The frame looked like brand new shiny brushed metal once I got all the surface rust off and that's a 35 year old frame.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
You can choose between getting all greasy working on your car, or getting rust in your eyes and not getting bolts out at all. I'll take the grease myself.

I do most of the wrenching on my 1984 and 1983 cars myself. The 1983 is the winter beater. Usually the bolts come out no problem. A 5 year old car that's never been undercoated sometimes can't say the same thing. If you don't want to slow down the rusting to next to nothing (like 30+ years in my experience) then don't undercoat it.


Living in the Midwest and doing a lot of my own maintenance, I've found a good impact driver and a wheel puller are very handy tools...

 

[rfeir]

Just purchase a German make of vehicle, By German law they all carry a 12 year rust warranty against all rust, not a full rot through as required by USA makes. My 2001 BMW Z3 and my 2000 Audi A6 look like they just came out of the factory, no rust at all, and I live in show country in upstate NY.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by rfeir
Just purchase a German make of vehicle, By German law they all carry a 12 year rust warranty against all rust, not a full rot through as required by USA makes. My 2001 BMW Z3 and my 2000 Audi A6 look like they just came out of the factory, no rust at all, and I live in show country in upstate NY.


Is it an Amber wax like substance coating the undercarriage? That's cosmoline wax. What I'm using. RP-342 is a military grade version that's a little bit thicker.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Just moved (part time) to PA from rust free FL. Good god, the road salt and sand is a downright physical assault on the underneath of my car. It's downright noisy! The stuff sticks to the tires and is blasted up on to the fenders, wheel wells and everything else to a lesser degree. I've been washing out my wheelwells and enough sand comes out to contaminate my gravel driveway. Ugh. Car has been here two months and the rust (on what was previously clean under car hardware) is already underway. Bolts, calipers, emergency brake hardware, muffler hangars, etc. I can't believe it.




I live in PA. You just moved here, dude, it's only snowed once. I'm still driving my CTS-V lol

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by Gasbuggy
Originally Posted by Cujet
Just moved (part time) to PA from rust free FL. Good god, the road salt and sand is a downright physical assault on the underneath of my car. It's downright noisy! The stuff sticks to the tires and is blasted up on to the fenders, wheel wells and everything else to a lesser degree. I've been washing out my wheelwells and enough sand comes out to contaminate my gravel driveway. Ugh. Car has been here two months and the rust (on what was previously clean under car hardware) is already underway. Bolts, calipers, emergency brake hardware, muffler hangars, etc. I can't believe it.




I live in PA. You just moved here, dude, it's only snowed once. I'm still driving my CTS-V lol



I'm in Milford, PA about 1200 feet elevation. It's snowed 3x so far here, once with about 6 inches, the other 2x less than an inch. Even so, my road was salted and sanded heavily each time. I'm only there part time. I'm in FL now, thank goodness.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by rfeir
Just purchase a German make of vehicle, By German law they all carry a 12 year rust warranty against all rust, not a full rot through as required by USA makes. My 2001 BMW Z3 and my 2000 Audi A6 look like they just came out of the factory, no rust at all, and I live in show country in upstate NY.


I'm not sure that's much of a solution, many of us can't afford the maintenance and repairs on a modern German vehicle. Also I've seen regular Volkswagen's (golf's, passats) around that era (2000ish) that appeared to be rusting much worse than other makes.

I imagine that older Audi and BMW are probably a lot more solid vehicle than the newer stuff. The garage I worked at would cringe when most German stuff came in the door.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv

I'm not sure that's much of a solution, many of us can't afford the maintenance and repairs on a modern German vehicle. Also I've seen regular Volkswagen's (golf's, passats) around that era (2000ish) that appeared to be rusting much worse than other makes.


If they were built in mexico with suburban US chicks in mind they may have not rustproofed like the fatherland.

VW was very very quick to dump the Rabbit's 5 MPH bumpers when the US no longer required them.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by LeakySeals
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
If its a new(er) GM truck with the factory wax still somewhat intact don't use oil based sprays like Fluid Film. It softens the coating to the point it rubs off just putting your finger on it exposing bare metal. Another negative (IMO) about oil based sprays is how they stay wet and sticky, attracting sand, dirt, grit like flypaper. In my NH winter conditions thats not desirable. They use a lot of salt and sand on the hills around here which makes working under the truck horrible. I moved on from FF to a product called RP-342. Recommended by a Canadian. Its a military grade cosmoline wax in a spray can. Its self healing, flows good during application. Has no tacky sticky oil. In the cold the surface gets pretty hard so salt, sand, grit beads up and rinses off with water. Wish I had found this years ago.

Pic under the rear bumper after driving through snow, salt, sand.
I'll have to check that out but you are 100% wrong regarding oil sprays. They are not sticky at all and are just a fine oil that creeps. It's actually quite nice to wrench on an oil sprayed car, the fasteners also get oil sprayed. They do collect dust, but if you wash your car once per year it is not an issue. Usually, the oil visible on the body is from when they spray the hinges and it creeps out. I live in a large rust belt city that sees plenty of salt and oil spraying is the only way to stop rust.

You quote me, tell me I'm 100% wrong, then go on to say oil sprays "are not sticky at all".. "Just a "fine oil that creeps".. Dust that "washes off".. "Quite nice to wrench an oil sprayed car".. "oil spraying is the only way to stop rust".. I won't say you're 100% wrong because you are entitled to your opinions. Just.. wow. That's nowhere close to what I experienced with FF. Months after a FF application I'm covered in grease, sand, grime anywhere I come in contact with something sprayed. Nuts and bolts are slippery. Lifting requires careful placement on the frame so it doesn't start to move as I'm jacking the truck up. The FF aerosol I used stays "sticky" forever until it washes away and falls off in chunks heavy with the sand, dirt, grime stuck to it. I have a year and a half worth of pics showing the progression of FF. Plan on posting them at some point. And no, oil spraying is not the only way to stop rust. Because there is no way to stop rust. Just slow it down with different methods. Oil, wax, paint, stay home. They all work to some degree.


Interesting commentary.

Ive found that ff does wash off easily in high wash areas, like wheel wells. Oils will as well, but they tend to stay around longer if not in the direct wash (like on springs, struts, etc).

Ive found FF to hold less dirt because it doesn't last as long. Oils (e.g. Known) will hold dirt as well as anything.

Harder coatings, even if self healing, can more easily allow moisture to diffuse in/entrap under and hold moisture. If used over a painted part it's likely ok, but if there is damage on an item, you can see rust form under. Btdt.

My 98 S-10 has a wax dipped frame. The way is still soft and pliable.

I do want to protect the underside with an oil/ff. Ive been trying a few products on the frame, none of them are disturbing the existing wax or making it more prone to removal.

Aerosol sprays often have petroleum distillates, to thin them a bit for better spraying. These could attack a coating, or affect some rubber.

 

[MasterSolenoid]

I'm a big fan of OIL undercoating.
I had my vehicle sprayed by a Collision Shop 5 times and now I just touch-up with Fluid Film (aerosol cans) yearly.
Any OIL undercoating is going to creep around the welds & seams and penetrate the current rust down to base metal.
I just bought some Cosmoline and will use it where I don't want a lot of oil.
I think it will work good for 'new' parts I install and under the hood.

Web-Site explaining 3 different types of undercoating
http://www.rtsauto.com/different-ty...plained-which-to-avoid-and-which-to-use/

Undercoating discussions are always interesting.
People have different techniques (wax, oil, tar & washing frequencies)
I would imagine all the vehicles I see on the road (with rust) are Winter cars or have NO undercoating at all.

My best method is:
1) Oil undercoating
2) In the Fall - Wax AND use a Sealer

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by MasterSolenoid
I'm a big fan of OIL undercoating.
I had my vehicle sprayed by a Collision Shop 5 times and now I just touch-up with Fluid Film (aerosol cans) yearly.
Any OIL undercoating is going to creep around the welds & seams and penetrate the current rust down to base metal.
I just bought some Cosmoline and will use it where I don't want a lot of oil.
I think it will work good for 'new' parts I install and under the hood.

Web-Site explaining 3 different types of undercoating
http://www.rtsauto.com/different-ty...plained-which-to-avoid-and-which-to-use/

Undercoating discussions are always interesting.
People have different techniques (wax, oil, tar & washing frequencies)
I would imagine all the vehicles I see on the road (with rust) are Winter cars or have NO undercoating at all.

My best method is:
1) Oil undercoating
2) In the Fall - Wax AND use a Sealer



Not sure I understand your method. So you spray rustproofing wax in the fall, or wax your paint?

There's quite a few things I'm not sure I agree with in the article you linked to. There's a place for wax and cosmoline type coatings, but they too can allow diffusion of water underneath, and also entrap moisture. Though oils have their drawbacks, it's impractical to think that routine plastic trim removal to do a fully "clean" job of rust protection is practical. Therefore it's next to impossible to think that cosmoline or wax will get into every nook and cranny, so oil is th best hope. A self healing waxy coating with an oil overspray is, IMO, most preferable.

 

[LeakySeals]

Whatever they used as a coating for the body in that article definitely is not RP-342 version Cosmoline. Its coming off too easy, its too thin. Having used both there is no noticeable difference in the creeping ability of FF or Cosmoline heavy wax during application. Its the drying thats different. RP-342 is more durable, creates a harder coating. Very happy how the rusty brake lines absorbed the wax.

The claims that cosmoline cant be as good as FF at preventing rust because its harder, lacking oil... you saw my FF results. Flaked off in chunks after a season, metal still rusting underneath. If it ends up being true that Cosmoline is inferior to FF, will report that on here. Because I'm not a FF hater. Still using it in the auger of my snowblower and other exposed metal around the house.

I follow the the FF FB page and they just put out a post for a product called "Woolwax Lanolin Undercoating".
https://www.kellsportproducts.com/W...FX4WeEq_qzSpOiJU4USfAAfEgOI91aSWwZLexL9Y

Someone asked about GM frame wax, the answer directly from Kellsport is at the bottom.
"And no, we do not recommend using either product over the GM wax. We are in the final stage of developing a product specifically compatible with the GM wax. We hope to be offering it in the next 4-6 weeks." I asked them the same question when my GM frame wax melted like butter exposing large sections of the frame. Same answer.

 

[MasterSolenoid]

Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by MasterSolenoid
I'm a big fan of OIL undercoating.
I had my vehicle sprayed by a Collision Shop 5 times and now I just touch-up with Fluid Film (aerosol cans) yearly.
Any OIL undercoating is going to creep around the welds & seams and penetrate the current rust down to base metal.
I just bought some Cosmoline and will use it where I don't want a lot of oil.
I think it will work good for 'new' parts I install and under the hood.

Web-Site explaining 3 different types of undercoating
http://www.rtsauto.com/different-ty...plained-which-to-avoid-and-which-to-use/

Undercoating discussions are always interesting.
People have different techniques (wax, oil, tar & washing frequencies)
I would imagine all the vehicles I see on the road (with rust) are Winter cars or have NO undercoating at all.

My best method is:
1) Oil undercoating
2) In the Fall - Wax AND use a Sealer



Not sure I understand your method. So you spray rustproofing wax in the fall, or wax your paint?

There's quite a few things I'm not sure I agree with in the article you linked to. There's a place for wax and cosmoline type coatings, but they too can allow diffusion of water underneath, and also entrap moisture. Though oils have their drawbacks, it's impractical to think that routine plastic trim removal to do a fully "clean" job of rust protection is practical. Therefore it's next to impossible to think that cosmoline or wax will get into every nook and cranny, so oil is th best hope. A self healing waxy coating with an oil overspray is, IMO, most preferable.

I was referring to the Body/Paint

I have always used an OIL undercoating (Fluid Film) and it can't be beat.
If it causes 'heavy' rust to flake off, they may not be a bad thing. Just touch up every Fall / eventually the rust will stop spreading and falling off.
I bought some Cosmoline (out of curiosity) and may use it in selective areas.

 

[Donald]

My plan on dealing with rust is having vehicles sprayed yearly with CarWell or similar until I move to Delaware. This year it was twice for my truck.