Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Heck yeah! We weren't made to fly....
But planes are...
Heck yeah! We weren't made to fly....
But planes are...
Are you afraid to fly?
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ls1mike
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Originally Posted by cjcride
You Submariners have Guts.
I suppose, you really spend your whole time making sure everything is right. I am sure it gave me a bit of OCD. LOL.
You Submariners have Guts.
I suppose, you really spend your whole time making sure everything is right. I am sure it gave me a bit of OCD. LOL.
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by ls1mike
However it is just easier to explain it like this, There are more airplanes in the ocean then there are submarines in the sky.
That's an interesting point. But there are more submarines on the bottom of the ocean than there are jetliners on the bottom of the ocean.
What percentage of those ocean-bottom submarines died from self-inflicted injuries?
What percentage of planes die from self-inflicted injuries?
Do you see where I'm going with this?
I see where you're going, but the germans alone lost 784 submarines in the war and they didn't do investigations like do on airplanes and they didn't have black boxes so that data basically isn't available. But also remember that 221 german subs were scuttled by their own crews so the percentage of self inflicted injuries is higher than you think.
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by ls1mike
However it is just easier to explain it like this, There are more airplanes in the ocean then there are submarines in the sky.
That's an interesting point. But there are more submarines on the bottom of the ocean than there are jetliners on the bottom of the ocean.
What percentage of those ocean-bottom submarines died from self-inflicted injuries?
What percentage of planes die from self-inflicted injuries?
Do you see where I'm going with this?
I see where you're going, but the germans alone lost 784 submarines in the war and they didn't do investigations like do on airplanes and they didn't have black boxes so that data basically isn't available. But also remember that 221 german subs were scuttled by their own crews so the percentage of self inflicted injuries is higher than you think.
The guys sitting at the pointy end of an airliner have no desire to die either and are typically very experienced and well trained, at least with First World airlines.
I may feel more in control at the yoke of a light aircraft, just as I do when driving a car, but the (mostly) guys piloting commercial flights have learned abilities well beyond what I do.
Pretty sure I could do a take off in any common airliner and I could probably do a landing with some sim time following a good briefing on speeds and rates of descent.
Doubt that I could deal with any complicating failures, gusty conditions or shear, though.
Airline pilots are usually really hot sticks. They fly every day in conditions that are often not very good. If it were always CAVU with calm winds and no icing, anyone could do the job.
I may feel more in control at the yoke of a light aircraft, just as I do when driving a car, but the (mostly) guys piloting commercial flights have learned abilities well beyond what I do.
Pretty sure I could do a take off in any common airliner and I could probably do a landing with some sim time following a good briefing on speeds and rates of descent.
Doubt that I could deal with any complicating failures, gusty conditions or shear, though.
Airline pilots are usually really hot sticks. They fly every day in conditions that are often not very good. If it were always CAVU with calm winds and no icing, anyone could do the job.
Originally Posted by fdcg27
The guys sitting at the pointy end of an airliner have no desire to die either and are typically very experienced and well trained.
Except for when they do have a deathwish. Like the co-pilot at Germanwings that intentionally flew an A320 into a mountain in the French Alps, killing all on board.
Or the pilot of MH370, whom it would seem had a plan to kill himself and everyone else on the plane.
I'm sure there are more.
The guys sitting at the pointy end of an airliner have no desire to die either and are typically very experienced and well trained.
Except for when they do have a deathwish. Like the co-pilot at Germanwings that intentionally flew an A320 into a mountain in the French Alps, killing all on board.
Or the pilot of MH370, whom it would seem had a plan to kill himself and everyone else on the plane.
I'm sure there are more.
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Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by fdcg27
The guys sitting at the pointy end of an airliner have no desire to die either and are typically very experienced and well trained.
Except for when they do have a deathwish. Like the co-pilot at Germanwings that intentionally flew an A320 into a mountain in the French Alps, killing all on board.
Or the pilot of MH370, whom it would seem had a plan to kill himself and everyone else on the plane.
I'm sure there are more.
Well there's also Egypt Air flight 990 where the copilot flew it into the ocean.
Originally Posted by fdcg27
The guys sitting at the pointy end of an airliner have no desire to die either and are typically very experienced and well trained.
Except for when they do have a deathwish. Like the co-pilot at Germanwings that intentionally flew an A320 into a mountain in the French Alps, killing all on board.
Or the pilot of MH370, whom it would seem had a plan to kill himself and everyone else on the plane.
I'm sure there are more.
Well there's also Egypt Air flight 990 where the copilot flew it into the ocean.
OK, if you happen to have an extra-freaky fear of flying, and are a tad superstitious, never, ever board a plane designated "Flight 191"!
==> NASA X-15 Flight 191 (1967), X-15 experimental rocket-propelled test plane, broke apart in flight, killing its test pilot. One-hundred ninety-nine total X-15 flights -- only one was fatal -- Flight 191.
==> Prinair (Puerto Rican International) Flight 191 (1972), DeHavilland DH-114 Heron, crashed at Mercedita Airport in Ponce, Puerto Rico, killing five people.
==> American Airlines Flight 191 (1979), Douglas DC-10, crashed shortly after takeoff from Chicago O'Hare Airport, killing 273.
==> Delta Air Lines Flight 191 (1985), Lockheed L-1011, crashed while on final approach to Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, killing 137.
==> Comair Flight 5191 (2006), Bombardier CRJ-100, crashed on takeoff from Blue Grass Airport, Lexington, Kentucky. killing 49 people. OK, not quite "191" but pretty close.
==> JetBlue Flight 191 (2012), Airbus A320, a flight from New York John F. Kennedy airport to Las Vegas, Nev. diverted to Amarillo, Tex. after the captain had an alleged panic attack, rambled incoherently about how they were going to die and not make it to Las Vegas, was locked out of the flight deck by the First Officer, and was restrained by passengers.
This is really just for fun (and a moment of perhaps spooky X-Files/Twilight Zone consideration...), but consider: plainly, some fears are totally rational (I'm afraid of eating mayonnaise that's been out of the 'fridge for two days). Some are totally irrational (consider your own examples...). Some are a mixture. Would any of you get on the plane if you realized you were booked on a Flight 191? BTW, most airlines have quietly stopped using "191" as a flight number. Rational? Who knows?
==> NASA X-15 Flight 191 (1967), X-15 experimental rocket-propelled test plane, broke apart in flight, killing its test pilot. One-hundred ninety-nine total X-15 flights -- only one was fatal -- Flight 191.
==> Prinair (Puerto Rican International) Flight 191 (1972), DeHavilland DH-114 Heron, crashed at Mercedita Airport in Ponce, Puerto Rico, killing five people.
==> American Airlines Flight 191 (1979), Douglas DC-10, crashed shortly after takeoff from Chicago O'Hare Airport, killing 273.
==> Delta Air Lines Flight 191 (1985), Lockheed L-1011, crashed while on final approach to Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, killing 137.
==> Comair Flight 5191 (2006), Bombardier CRJ-100, crashed on takeoff from Blue Grass Airport, Lexington, Kentucky. killing 49 people. OK, not quite "191" but pretty close.
==> JetBlue Flight 191 (2012), Airbus A320, a flight from New York John F. Kennedy airport to Las Vegas, Nev. diverted to Amarillo, Tex. after the captain had an alleged panic attack, rambled incoherently about how they were going to die and not make it to Las Vegas, was locked out of the flight deck by the First Officer, and was restrained by passengers.
This is really just for fun (and a moment of perhaps spooky X-Files/Twilight Zone consideration...), but consider: plainly, some fears are totally rational (I'm afraid of eating mayonnaise that's been out of the 'fridge for two days). Some are totally irrational (consider your own examples...). Some are a mixture. Would any of you get on the plane if you realized you were booked on a Flight 191? BTW, most airlines have quietly stopped using "191" as a flight number. Rational? Who knows?
Originally Posted by ekpolk
...
==> American Airlines Flight 191 (1979), Douglas DC-10, crashed shortly after takeoff from Chicago O'Hare Airport, killing 273.
...
Oh man, that one still makes me shudder.
Somebody got a still photo of that plane not long before it must have hit the ground and it really got to me as a teen in the Chicago area in 1979.
Horrifying!
...
==> American Airlines Flight 191 (1979), Douglas DC-10, crashed shortly after takeoff from Chicago O'Hare Airport, killing 273.
...
Oh man, that one still makes me shudder.
Somebody got a still photo of that plane not long before it must have hit the ground and it really got to me as a teen in the Chicago area in 1979.
Horrifying!
Not afraid to fly at all. I grew up with planes. I soloed on my 16th birthday in my dad's Cessna 140. I avoid flying commercial because it's just become way to much of a PITA, with all of the restrictions and the Hitler-isms of the flight crews these days...
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by ekpolk
...
==> American Airlines Flight 191 (1979), Douglas DC-10, crashed shortly after takeoff from Chicago O'Hare Airport, killing 273.
...
Oh man, that one still makes me shudder.
Somebody got a still photo of that plane not long before it must have hit the ground and it really got to me as a teen in the Chicago area in 1979.
Horrifying!
That particular accident was strange and ironic all around. The accident sequence started with the bad maintenance short-cut that damaged the engine pylon, causing it to finally fall off the plane, literally, during 191s take-off roll. The final link was that the PF (pilot flying, in this case the First Officer) did exactly the right thing. Realizing that they'd lost an engine, he tried to fly at "v-2" (a/k/a, Takeoff Safety Speed), which is what you generally do with power loss on takeoff. Unfortunately, as the #1 engine separated, it damaged the hydraulics controlling the leading edge slats, causing them to retract, but on the left side only. The stall speed on the left wing then increased ABOVE v-2, stalling that wing, while the right wing was still flying, causing the violent roll-off to the left. That picture you're talking about was caught a few microseconds later.
Ironically, the only thing that MIGHT have saved the day, would have been for the pilots to IGNORE what they were taught and continue accelerating. Alas, they did their jobs exactly as trained and had no way to see what we can now, looking back with the luxury of time to consider. . .
Originally Posted by ekpolk
...
==> American Airlines Flight 191 (1979), Douglas DC-10, crashed shortly after takeoff from Chicago O'Hare Airport, killing 273.
...
Oh man, that one still makes me shudder.
Somebody got a still photo of that plane not long before it must have hit the ground and it really got to me as a teen in the Chicago area in 1979.
Horrifying!
That particular accident was strange and ironic all around. The accident sequence started with the bad maintenance short-cut that damaged the engine pylon, causing it to finally fall off the plane, literally, during 191s take-off roll. The final link was that the PF (pilot flying, in this case the First Officer) did exactly the right thing. Realizing that they'd lost an engine, he tried to fly at "v-2" (a/k/a, Takeoff Safety Speed), which is what you generally do with power loss on takeoff. Unfortunately, as the #1 engine separated, it damaged the hydraulics controlling the leading edge slats, causing them to retract, but on the left side only. The stall speed on the left wing then increased ABOVE v-2, stalling that wing, while the right wing was still flying, causing the violent roll-off to the left. That picture you're talking about was caught a few microseconds later.
Ironically, the only thing that MIGHT have saved the day, would have been for the pilots to IGNORE what they were taught and continue accelerating. Alas, they did their jobs exactly as trained and had no way to see what we can now, looking back with the luxury of time to consider. . .
Originally Posted by exranger06
I'm not afraid of flying, but I don't enjoy it. My ears are very sensitive to the change in pressure, and getting them to "pop" and get back to normal is difficult and often painful. It also sometimes causes an ear infection afterwards. The first time I ever flew was when I had a mild ear infection and it was agonizing, and the infection was much worse afterward. Then the flight home a few days later, and the infection hadn't gotten any better...man, I seriously thought my eardrums were going to rupture. I could never be a pilot or have any job that required me to fly often for that reason alone.
Then there's all the hassle of getting through airport security, the lengthy boarding and unboarding process, being forced to sit in a chair for hours, etc....I hate flying, but I'm not afraid of the plane crashing.
This is me.
Also add in tinnitus and fear of heights to the equation....the acceleration on take-off is the only cool part....the rest is basically a personal painful nightmare...
I'm not afraid of flying, but I don't enjoy it. My ears are very sensitive to the change in pressure, and getting them to "pop" and get back to normal is difficult and often painful. It also sometimes causes an ear infection afterwards. The first time I ever flew was when I had a mild ear infection and it was agonizing, and the infection was much worse afterward. Then the flight home a few days later, and the infection hadn't gotten any better...man, I seriously thought my eardrums were going to rupture. I could never be a pilot or have any job that required me to fly often for that reason alone.
Then there's all the hassle of getting through airport security, the lengthy boarding and unboarding process, being forced to sit in a chair for hours, etc....I hate flying, but I'm not afraid of the plane crashing.
This is me.
Also add in tinnitus and fear of heights to the equation....the acceleration on take-off is the only cool part....the rest is basically a personal painful nightmare...
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Originally Posted by Smokescreen
. . .
This is me.
Also add in tinnitus and fear of heights to the equation....the acceleration on take-off is the only cool part....the rest is basically a personal painful nightmare...
In Pensacola, the training command owns a device "affectionately" known as the "Spin & Puke". It's essentially a "deconditioning" machine, the idea being that if you're anxious about flying and/or inclined to airsickness, a couple rides in this thing will "cure" you, if you're curable at all. I understand that there are a few civilian versions around the country. Maybe you could book a ride!
Or maybe the proper emoji is:
.
When I went through Aviation Indoctrination, they took us on a tour of many of the "fun devices" that would be involved, including this whirling nightmare. Thankfully, I never saw it again, but I still remember how the big room in which it sat had a vague barf stench to it, even though it was obviously all cleaned up. That alone almost. . . Oh never mind!
As I recall, the device worked for a few guys I knew, but not for a couple others.
. . .
This is me.
Also add in tinnitus and fear of heights to the equation....the acceleration on take-off is the only cool part....the rest is basically a personal painful nightmare...
In Pensacola, the training command owns a device "affectionately" known as the "Spin & Puke". It's essentially a "deconditioning" machine, the idea being that if you're anxious about flying and/or inclined to airsickness, a couple rides in this thing will "cure" you, if you're curable at all. I understand that there are a few civilian versions around the country. Maybe you could book a ride!
When I went through Aviation Indoctrination, they took us on a tour of many of the "fun devices" that would be involved, including this whirling nightmare. Thankfully, I never saw it again, but I still remember how the big room in which it sat had a vague barf stench to it, even though it was obviously all cleaned up. That alone almost. . . Oh never mind!
As I recall, the device worked for a few guys I knew, but not for a couple others.
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