5w-20 and 0w-20

[dwendt44]

"(seems there are very few 0w-20 "conventional" oils)."
Hasn't been and still isn't any at all.
In order to get that 0W rating, synthetic is required. I haven't even seen
a "blend" that had a 0W rating.


My 2¢

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by dwendt44
"(seems there are very few 0w-20 "conventional" oils)."
Hasn't been and still isn't any at all.
In order to get that 0W rating, synthetic is required. I haven't even seen
a "blend" that had a 0W rating.


My 2¢

I know Pennzoil, Quaker State, and Valvoline have a 0w-20 blend (per Dexos site), as does Motorcraft.
Seems I read here about a conventional 0w-20 oil being out as well (but discussion was it may actually be a blend, just not labeled that way).

 

[Bighorn2500]

Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by dwendt44
"(seems there are very few 0w-20 "conventional" oils)."
Hasn't been and still isn't any at all.
In order to get that 0W rating, synthetic is required. I haven't even seen
a "blend" that had a 0W rating.


My 2¢

I know Pennzoil, Quaker State, and Valvoline have a 0w-20 blend (per Dexos site), as does Motorcraft.
Seems I read here about a conventional 0w-20 oil being out as well (but discussion was it may actually be a blend, just not labeled that way).


Pennzoil Gold is a Synthetic Blend 0w20. Hard to find and can cost more than just buying platinum.

 

[farrarfan1]

Valvoline offers their High Mileage With Maxlife Technology as a synthetic blend in 0W-20.

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...bd3/dcefb479-09bd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

At one time Honda brand 0W-20 synthetic blend was sold by Honda dealerships and on Amazon, not sure if it's still available or not.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Honda-Fluid-08798-9036-Synthetic/dp/B007P5RFRO

 

[klt1986]

Originally Posted by widetrax
OK then,, I will run the 5-20 in the Tundra



Here is a recommendation for the Lexus LX570 with the 3UR-FE engine ( same engine as is in the Tundra) in Australia from Castrol. Shell actually recommends a 0w-20 up to a 10w-40 in their Helix line of oils in Australia.

3UR-FE in Australia

 

[xyxptlx]

Originally Posted by klt1986

If you look up the oil specs for the Lexus LX570 (uses the exact same 5.7L engine as the Tundra) that is sold over seas, you will see that 5w30 is the recommended oil. Mine currently has a sump full of Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30.


I see this argument used frequently in BITOG. Has anyone checked to see if bearing clearances are similar? Except for hydraulic uses like Vanos and injectors its my understanding that clearances on rods and mains determine viscosity. Different bearing could easily be spec across different markets.

 

[klt1986]

Originally Posted by xyxptlx
Originally Posted by klt1986

If you look up the oil specs for the Lexus LX570 (uses the exact same 5.7L engine as the Tundra) that is sold over seas, you will see that 5w30 is the recommended oil. Mine currently has a sump full of Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30.


I see this argument used frequently in BITOG. Has anyone checked to see if bearing clearances are similar? Except for hydraulic uses like Vanos and injectors its my understanding that clearances on rods and mains determine viscosity. Different bearing could easily be spec across different markets.



I have not measured the main bearings to see if they are the same. I can't imagine that there would be any differences as all the 3UR-FE engines are produced and assembled in the same plant......if I remember the blocks are made in Tennessee and then assembled in Alabama. Toyota is all about profits, so I can't imagine they would design different bearing tolerances for different regions of the world. Especially considering the LX570 only has worldwide sales numbers averaging less less than 5k per year. However, I could be wrong. All I can say is 5w-30 Pennzoil Platinum has worked well in mine and a few others I know personally. I have a nice stash of Pennzoil Ultra in 5w30 for future changes.

 

[xyxptlx]

It would be a simple part substitution on assembly. The reality is that it shows any oil is probably good enough for the duty cycle of the average car.

 

[LubricatusObsess]

Yes. Chrysler is very adamant about it for their MDS system (not VVT) in their HEMI engines (which I own). These are notorious for low oil flow rate at idle rpm, so much so that they've been getting insufficient lifter lubrication, seizing lifters, and wiping camshafts.

 

[AJB0009]

Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Yes. Chrysler is very adamant about it for their MDS system (not VVT) in their HEMI engines (which I own). These are notorious for low oil flow rate at idle rpm, so much so that they've been getting insufficient lifter lubrication, seizing lifters, and wiping camshafts.

LubricatusObsess:
Chrysler is very adamant about...What?

 

[klt1986]

Originally Posted by xyxptlx
It would be a simple part substitution on assembly. The reality is that it shows any oil is probably good enough for the duty cycle of the average car.


You are probably correct concerning many oils will work. As for different internal engine parts, I guess the question for me would be why? If Toyota only sells roughly 5k Lexus LX570's per year worldwide, why would they use different bearings in a few of those that go overseas? I just don't buy the argument they have a special run of 5.7L engines for a few markets outside the USA. Just my opinion and I could be mistaken.

Another factor to consider is the owners manual leaves the option open of running a higher viscosity oil if you tow or run high speeds for extended periods of time.

 

[klt1986]

Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Yes. Chrysler is very adamant about it for their MDS system (not VVT) in their HEMI engines (which I own). These are notorious for low oil flow rate at idle rpm, so much so that they've been getting insufficient lifter lubrication, seizing lifters, and wiping camshafts.



As department fleet manager, a few Hemi Chargers in our department have had this issue even with 3k oil changes and using the factory recommended synthetic oil. The first Charger we got the shop installed 15w-40 Rotella....just like they ran for 100's of thousands of miles in CVPI's. Within a month or so we got a check engine light. Our shop hooked up the Snap On scanner and it read, "incorrect oil viscosity." Had I not seen it with my own eyes I would have not believed it. Oddly enough, that car has well over 100k and has not had the lifter problem.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Shell Australia recommends 0W20-15W40 for my Accord.

 

[bulwnkl]

Our shop hooked up the Snap On scanner and it read, "incorrect oil viscosity."

That’s a very simple ECU calculation which can be made from oil temp and pressure.

 

[Gene K]

I know of a vehicle approaching 500,000 mi with 15W-40 that speced 5W-20.

I know of a vehicles that have went 600,000 - 750,000 mi on 5W-20.

The truth is most vehicles are not that sensitive to oil viscosity.

OP - The only difference you will note is in very cold weather you will get oil pressure faster with 0W-20. Otherwise they are functionally identical.

 

[doublebase]

Originally Posted by blupupher
0w-20 is a spec predominately to get synthetic oil in the sump (seems there are very few 0w-20 "conventional" oils).

I don't know if that is true anymore. The prevalence of Exxon's EHC Group II+ base stock raises the possibility that budget Dexos1 0W-20 oils being sold at "Full Synthetic performance levels" are likely to be II+/III blends. The most recent EHC flier I have shows a 54% II+/46%III blend can satisfy Dexos requirements.

You just knew that this was going to happen sooner or later. That they were going to find a way to make the 0w20 cheaper or easier, or less synthetic than it was before. It cracks me up, it really does. I used be able to say...the 0w20 is harder to make and therefore better quality. Not anymore I guess.

 

[doublebase]

I know of a vehicle approaching 500,000 mi with 15W-40 that speced 5W-20.

I know of a vehicles that have went 600,000 - 750,000 mi on 5W-20.

The truth is most vehicles are not that sensitive to oil viscosity.

OP - The only difference you will note is in very cold weather you will get oil pressure faster with 0W-20. Otherwise they are functionally identical.

You know of a vehicle approaching 750,000 miles on 5w20? That’s a lot of miles. It must be a fleet vehicle.

I have never in all my years working in the trade of automotive, seen a vehicle with more than 300,000 miles on it. 300,000 was the absolute most - it was a Acura Legend with the V6 - it was actually in pretty condition and looked like it could have gone another 100,000 but the owners had a limit of 300,000 on all of their cars. They’d buy new and keep them all to 300,000.

I have seen a customer spend $5,000 on repairs/paint on an old Lexus LS400, that had 250,000 miles. Thought they were crazy, but they wanted to keep it in the family (sentimental). I also saw a lady put a brand new crate transmission in a Hyundai mid size four door sedan, when the car had 250,000 miles. Her logic was, the car was in great shape otherwise, the tranny repair was only $1,500 total, and it beat making car payments. And I agree with her.

I personally switch to a heavier weight oil as the vehicle starts to get higher in mileage. If my vehicle calls for 0w20 - I may run the 0w20 up until 150,000 miles and at that point I will consider switching to 5w30 (depending on if it’s using some oil). Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes it doesn’t. I have seen many techs and people do the same.

 

[diyjake]

What vehicle is this that is approaching 750,000 miles?

 

[Gene K]

Plenty of Crown Vics that spent the first 150,000 as Police Vehicles and their second lives as Taxis that have made it over 600,000 mi. The 750,000 is rare but not unheard of. Many of these cars ran a 5W-20 it's whole life.


The almost 500,000 is also a 4.6 2V but in a F150 used by a small trucking company.

Most 400,000+ passenger vehicles I know of share one thing they are predominantly serviced by the company or owner. Not because of the quality of service but the maintenance cost and down time doesn't start exceeding the cost of replacement.

I also live in a part of the country where salt is seldom used so vehicles don't fall apart before the drivetrain.

 

[Gene K]

You just knew that this was going to happen sooner or later. That they were going to find a way to make the 0w20 cheaper or easier, or less synthetic than it was before. It cracks me up, it really does. I used be able to say...the 0w20 is harder to make and therefore better quality. Not anymore I guess.

I'm thinking you may be over reacting. A 118 VI (Chevron) or 119 VI (EM) + a 130 VI Group III is not automatically lower quality than all 122 VI Korean GIII.

The bottom line is the Basestock as a whole still has to be the same VI assuming the same additive package.

If it was really cheaper to blend a max VI GII+ and Higher VI GIII than go with 100% lower VI GIII I doubt CP and Ford would have axed their 0W-20 Blend with the coming of SP GF-6A.

Personally it doesn't bother me what the title of functionally identical lubes are. Pennzoil Dexos Gold Blend isn't inferior because it's a blend. That is the whole point of the tests. It either does or it doesn't and a failing GIII Syn isn't somehow superior.

I can think of more than one "Synthetic" I would take Scaeffer's 7000 over and it's essentially what you are talking about. 25% PAO and the rest of the basestock Group II+ 118VI.