10w30 Users

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
If its fine for a diesel engine at -20F then its also fine for a gasoline engine at the same temp.


That’s not what GM, Ford and Fiat/ Chrysler say.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
I always looked at this forum as belonging to people who were interested in maximizing the longevity of their equipment to a degree that was much higher than ordinary consumers. Also the technology keeps getting better and we utilize that technology to a degree higher than the others.

But when I see people still using 10W-30 in cold weather I have to wonder. 10-30 oil in gas engines has been obsolete for over 10 years.

SF


Not everyone on the forum has the same agenda. Some want to maximize mileage at what they see as a reasonable trade-off. Others just want to know what the very cheapest thing will get the job done. There's no universal angle here. But, I'm in your camp, I want protection and longevity for the equipment. That is why I use 10w-30 and not 5w-30.

I think you misunderstand some of the key elements that go into blending an oil. Apples to apples (say, same brand, same line), there is actually no "free lunch" you are getting by using the 5w-. There are compromises made in basestocks and additives that generally sacrifice other desirable qualities of protection.

 

[Shannow]

Has the US got colder by at least 10C over the last 20 years ?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Has the US got colder by at least 10C over the last 20 years ?


Actually, check out the weather from two weeks ago. LOL

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
If its fine for a diesel engine at -20F then its also fine for a gasoline engine at the same temp.


That’s not what GM, Ford and Fiat/ Chrysler say.


Thing is that they aren't specifying oils for "startability", which was the whole reason for the "W" grading in the first place.

e.g. look at the machinations that the Japanese OEM's went to to have the deposit testing relaxed for 0W20, and that grade only, so that they could whack it full of moly and anti friction/wear additives.

That's not suggesting that 5W20 is "obsolete"...just that they are playing a different game, CAFE/CO2 depending on their market (as per Honda papers).

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
What's obsolete about it?

Virtually nothing specifies it (I'm not talking about diesels) and in almost no cases can a 5w-30 or even a 0w-30 not do the same job. That's all - it just depends on how rigorous you are being with the definition of "obsolete." Additionally, I can't speak for your province, but here, try buying a 10w-30 synthetic at Canadian Tire. It's a bit of a chore, to say the least. I think they've been listening to Caterham.

Heck, a number of 5w-20 synthetics disappeared from their shelves, too. In many climates, of course, 10w-30 will suffice. For me, though, a 5w-XX is specified, plus the weather justifies it. I have zero concerns about using a 10w-30 in a fair number of conditions, and in an engine calling for 10w-30. I just don't like the idea of changing seasonally, and to me, if an oil isn't good enough for all year usage in an all year vehicle, then it's not going into said vehicle.

Shannow: GM calls 5w-20 obsolete, too.

Their literature recommends 0w-20 for all 5w-20 applications, just like a 5w-30 dexos1 for all previous 10w-30 applications.

 

[Lubener]

Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Are you using a synthetic or conventional oil?
Conventional 10W30s are typically good down to ~ -30°F or even lower temps for cold startups. Synthetic oil(my pref in winter) is even better.
I don't think you need to worry. However it is a good idea to put in a 5W30 for the winter.

-30F for 10w30, not in any of my manuals. They all state 10/30 is acceptable down to 0F. Personally I use 5/30 from Nov-May and 10/30 from May-Nov.
Put a quart of 10/30 in your freezer overnight and try pouring it. Reminds me of STP.

 

[CharBaby]

Thanks Lubener

Well, it's more like -20*F(-30*C) and to make a point, I'm not disagreeing with you!

However(to answer the OP's question/concern) and according to most oil specs for a dino 10W30, they'll flow or pump and lower than ZERO degrees F.

Not optimal I agree and I prefer other oils for my particular climate but again, to answer the OP's question of worry for a few day of cold temps, I wouldn't worry about using 10W30.

Live & learn, this is what we do!

 

[SonofJoe]

I'm a bit late to this thread and apologies it this has already been said before but...

In the US you don't really get what a European would recognise as 'tight' 10W30s. What you actually get (because of the way the ILSAC Fuel Economy tests impact on oil formulation) is a viscometrically 'slack' 10W30 which is half way to being a 5W30. It might more accurately be called a 7.5W30.

One might realistically expect a 'tight' 10W30 to be still crankable at -30°C (-22°F) and still pumpable (and gel free) at -35°C (-31°F). However your average US-style 10W30 will tend to do better than this. At a rough guess, you'll be looking at crankability at -32.5°C (-25.5°F) and oil pumpability at -37.5°C (-35.5°F).

There are two other factors to further bear in mind...

If it's very cold outside, you will generally tend to accumulate some gasoline in your engine oil. Remember that everytime you start your engine, you will be attempting to burn very cold fuel in very cold air in a lump of metal that is very cold. Even if the engine fires first time, these are ideal conditions for dropping some unburnt fuel into your oil. This fuel dilution will drop the oil's viscocity right through the temperature range. I've never properly looked but the effect is probably worth an extra 2 to 3°C of low temperature operability.

The second thing is that if the outside air temperature drops overnight to say -35°C (-31°F), then chances are that the engine oil in your sump will not actually reach as low as -35°C (and might remain several degrees above this). This is due to something called 'hysteresis' (a posh name for describing thermal lag in cycled systems). If you drive the car the day before (and warm the oil), then the hysteresis credit will be higher than if you let the car sit dormant for a week.

Finally, can I say to all of you who are shivering in North America, or cooking in Australia, that it's currently a relatively barmy 7°C (44.5°F) here in the south of England!

 

[kschachn]

Call me crazy, but I can't think of one good reason to use a 10W oil at -30F, much less -40F as someone suggested. What would be the purpose of deliberately struggling with that when an oil properly rated for those temperatures is easily available?

I think that's nuts but maybe that's just me. I have no desire to go back to the '60s or '70s when modern grades are the same price.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

This thread makes me want to try 15w30 this summer.

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
This thread makes me want to try 15w30 this summer.


...or 10W20 next winter??

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
This thread makes me want to try 15w30 this summer.


...or 10W20 next winter??


Heated garage in the winter. It really doesn’t matter much.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Heated garage in the winter. It really doesn’t matter much.

No that wouldn't. But my old BMW lived in northern Wisconsin and it sat outside all the time. Also even when you have a heated garage at home it can sit at work all day without heat. I don't look at the oil selection to accommodate the best case scenario, I look at it for the worst one.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
I always looked at this forum as belonging to people who were interested in maximizing the longevity of their equipment to a degree that was much higher than ordinary consumers. Also the technology keeps getting better and we utilize that technology to a degree higher than the others.

But when I see people still using 10W-30 in cold weather I have to wonder. 10-30 oil in gas engines has been obsolete for over 10 years.

SF


What's obsolete about it?


Although you might find one somewhere, I believe no North American manufacturers have spec’d 10-30 for their gas engines in the last 10 years. Please show me if I’m wrong. I’m really not trying to be belligerent .

SF



IMO, it can't be obsolete if there's many older vehicles on the road that spec it.

 

[PeterPolyol]

10w30 is only 'obsolete' from new North American market vehicle literature. Sadly, neither vehicle literature or the EPA are concerned about ring pack deposits

10w30 is very relevant to me in my search for high quality synthetic engine oils that are built with cold flow properties as a last priority. I won't always want this in my locale bc winter, but I do want it whenever it's not below freezing.

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
This thread makes me want to try 15w30 this summer.


...or 10W20 next winter??

Heavens yea!

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Heated garage in the winter. It really doesn’t matter much.

No that wouldn't. But my old BMW lived in northern Wisconsin and it sat outside all the time. Also even when you have a heated garage at home it can sit at work all day without heat. I don't look at the oil selection to accommodate the best case scenario, I look at it for the worst one.

My f150 worktruck is the only truck subject to that and it is more likely to get s bunch of idling than cold soaked.

But seriously I use a lighter synthetic in the winter for worst case scenarios..such as leaving a 4 runner in airport parking for two weeks. It’s nice to have a quick start and be able to get going..

 

[jeepman3071]

I've used 5w30, 10w30, and 10w40. My Jeep 4.0L had the lowest wear numbers in the UOA with a 10w30, so I use that in summer and 5w30 in winter.

 

[Konstantine]

Why not go with a 0W-30 and forget about it?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
10w30 is very relevant to me in my search for high quality synthetic engine oils that are built with cold flow properties as a last priority. I won't always want this in my locale bc winter, but I do want it whenever it's not below freezing.

I can't think of many scenarios where I'd consider Castrol Edge 10w-30 SN/GF-5 over Castrol Edge 0w-30 A3/B4 (well, the 10w-30 comes in 5 L jugs which are cheaper than 1 L bottles, but you catch my drift).