Need Advice: driving Ultra HP Summer tires on ice!

[ksJoe]

Here's my situation:
In Sept, I got a Lexus IS35 (RWD sedan). The front tires have 10/32's tread (they're Bridgestone RE750 HP Summer tires). The rears have around 4-5/32's (Bridgestone RE92 HP all season). BTW,they're different sizes so rotation is not an option.

It was my intention to get new rear tires next summer.

I've never paid much attention to tire types before, because I grew up driving RWD pickups, with no issues in the snow. I'd slow down as necessary, it never was an issue. So I figured with the traction control, VSD, EBD, etc, on this car, it would no issue. I hadn't noticed the fronts were a "summer" tire.

But a couple hours ago it started snowing (Wichita Ks). We have maybe an inch, with some ice. A few minutes ago at lunch time, I tried to drive across the street to do some shopping. The car was unusable.

Just as an example:
With the engine cold, it idles high enough that when I let off the brake, it will accelerate some. The front summer tires had such horrible traction, that if I gently apply the brakes, the RWD acceleration at idle speed is enough that the front antilock brakes were engaging, and the car would (never) come to a stop. Idle engine power was literally enough that it was impossible to come to a stop in the left turn weaving lane. I let off the brakes and went down a 1/2 block to where it was clearer and I could stop & turn.

I'm at work again now. I have to get the vehicle home (12 miles). If things clear off, I'll drive it. Otherwise it will stay here until tomorrow (when it will warm up again anyway).

Once I get it home, the car will be parked any day with a chance of snow until I'm sure its safe to drive!

BUT, WHAT WILL MAKE IT SAFE? Get all season tires, or a dedicated snow set?

Like I said, I've never had an issue with all season tires. We don't get much snow in south central KS. If I get a good set of all seasons, are they likely to perform comparably to a RWD pickup with all seasons?

Feel free to make "you should have figured this out before today" rants as long as you include some sage advice

Thanks,
Joe

 

[BGK]

There is no such thing as a good HP tire for use on ice. You need a set of rims and snow tires-period. All season tires are the only marginally acceptable compromise. Under the conditions you describe, you really should have a car with awd, like an Audi, BMW or Infiniti.

 

[paul246]

Sounds like the car has an automatic transmission. In slippery conditions you should nudge the gear selector into neutral as you approach an intersection or any time you want to stop quickly. This will disengage the driveline and end the battle between your engine and brakes.

Get winter tires, the rubber compound works much better at colder temperatures. You don't have to have snow or ice to benefit from them, but they will make a huge difference in those conditions.

Get a seperate set of wheels to mount your winter tires. This will prevent bead damage from repeatedly remounting tires onto the one set of rims.

Once you have winter tires your summer and winter tires will last much longer because they both get used over the course of a year.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Enterprise Rental Cars, they'll pick you up!

http://enterprise.com

Maybe head right to a tire shop after work???

There are good all-season tire options out there. Be shure to look into specifics before you buy. I say a good all-seasons will have twice the wet/snow grip of a [censored] all-seasons.

What sizes anyway???

 

[Audi Junkie]

btw- Bridgestones are generally horrible in snow, esp the RE92s. One exception might be the RE960. Expensive though.

 

[ksJoe]

Just got off the phone with a tire guy I go to church with. He suggested Yokohama Avid 4WS, and I had him order them for me.

Re: you need dedicated snow tires:
Hmmm, hope not. My friend thought the Yokos would be fine year round. If they're a problem, I guess I just bought a new summer set I'm really hoping to avoid a dedicated set. We don't get much snow here, and the TPMS on this car has to be programmed by the dealer. So getting wheels (500-1000), TPMS (400), & programming (50) adds up to a lot. I'll see how the all seasons do.

Re: automatic transmission:
Yes, its automatic. But I've read shifting to neutral while moving can burn the clutches on some - right? Regardless, if I'm having trouble stopping again, its going into neutral!

Re: Enterprise:
My wife is picking me up this evening. I'll drive it home tomorrow (forcast is we'll be back in the 40's).

Re: Bridgestones are horrible on the snow:
Yeah, I can vouch for that!

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[oily boyd]

If you do decide to go the snow tire route and saving $$ is desirable, simply leave off the TPMS on the snow tire rims.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: ksJoe
Re: automatic transmission:
Yes, its automatic. But I've read shifting to neutral while moving can burn the clutches on some - right?


First time I've heard that!

 

[Volvohead]

FYI: Driving summer-only tires at temperatures below 40F is generally unsafe on ANY surface.

Once the temp falls below 40F, the summer compounds get very hard. You lose almost all grip even on clean, dry road surfaces. It's like driving on plastic.

Overall, a very unsafe situation. Do yourself a favor and get an A/S or dedicated winter tire designed for these temperatures regardless of what you'll be driving on.

Anyone telling you any different is giving you BAD ADVICE.

FWIW, the only tires that reliably grip on glare ice are those with chains, straps or studs. They were great in the '60s. But not possible today on many FWD vehicles and illegal in many jurisdictions.

 

[ksJoe]

Originally Posted By: oily boyd
If you do decide to go the snow tire route and saving $$ is desirable, simply leave off the TPMS on the snow tire rims.


Unfortunately, they make make that a nuisance. It lights up the dash with warning lights. The LCD display complains about it too. So that would mean I couldn't display the temperature, mileage, etc for 3 months. I think it beeps too, but I don't remember for sure.

 

[ksJoe]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: ksJoe
Re: automatic transmission:
Yes, its automatic. But I've read shifting to neutral while moving can burn the clutches on some - right?


First time I've heard that!


IIRC, I saw that in the manual for my wife's 03 Vue v6. If I can find it, I'll post a quote.

 

[ksJoe]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead
FYI: Driving summer-only tires at temperatures below 40F is generally unsafe on ANY surface.

Once the temp falls below 40F, the summer compounds get very hard. You lose almost all grip even on clean, dry road surfaces. It's like driving on plastic.

Overall, a very unsafe situation. Do yourself a favor and get an A/S or dedicated winter tire designed for these temperatures regardless of what you'll be driving on.

Anyone telling you any different is giving you BAD ADVICE.

FWIW, the only tires that reliably grip on glare ice are those with chains, straps or studs. They were great in the '60s. But not possible today on many FWD vehicles and illegal in many jurisdictions.


I wasn't aware of the 40 degree threshold - good to know.

All I've ever bought is all season tires, and been fine with them here (even on RWD).

I'll have all seasons on it this weekend. I let my friend who owns the tire shop pick them out. He spent about 20 minutes looking up different options, and I went with what he recommended.

If they're not good enough, I'll keep them for summer and buy some winter tires.

Thanks

 

[A_A_G]

Originally Posted By: ksJoe
Just got off the phone with a tire guy I go to church with. He suggested Yokohama Avid 4WS, and I had him order them for me.


My fiance has these on her altima and they are a great all season tire. I can't say how they do in snow since we rarely get it here in Dallas, but they do great in wet and dry weather conditions.

 

[Audi Junkie]

The Yoko handle very nice and have great wear. In snow, they are mid-pack.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I imagine the land is pretty level where you live..? Another nod for using all-seasons over snows.

So the fronts are new, but are summer tires? That bites. Maybe your friend can get some $ for them. At least keep them stored for when you go to sell the car.

 

[ksJoe]

Yes, geographers have officially determined Kansas is flatter than a pancake. The flint hills are as much all we have, but they're 30 miles east.

I'm hoping to sell the fronts on craigs list or ebay.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: paul246
Sounds like the car has an automatic transmission. In slippery conditions you should nudge the gear selector into neutral as you approach an intersection or any time you want to stop quickly.


I'd say that is a very dangerous thing to do in general with an auto or manual trans. You want the engine to be connected to the tires at all times, especially when braking.

What you should do IMO in snowy conditions is slow down gently and use the engine/trans to aid in braking by downshifting gently when the rpms are lower.

Just my opinion I guess.

If your tires spin when idling at a stoplight, your tires are FUBAR.

 

[ksJoe]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: ksJoe
Re: automatic transmission:
Yes, its automatic. But I've read shifting to neutral while moving can burn the clutches on some - right?


First time I've heard that!


In the manual for our 03 Vue v6 (5 speed Aisin transmission), it says:
Quote:

Shifting into Neutral wile driving can cause damage to the transmission. If you shift into Neutral while driving, do not race the engine, and do not shift back into Drive until the vehicle is brought to a stop.


I can't find where it says clutch damage is the reason, but that's what I remember seeing in it before.

Aisin is who made the transmission in my IS350 too.

 

[paul246]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: paul246
Sounds like the car has an automatic transmission. In slippery conditions you should nudge the gear selector into neutral as you approach an intersection or any time you want to stop quickly.


I'd say that is a very dangerous thing to do in general with an auto or manual trans. You want the engine to be connected to the tires at all times, especially when braking.

What you should do IMO in snowy conditions is slow down gently and use the engine/trans to aid in braking by downshifting gently when the rpms are lower.

Just my opinion I guess.

If your tires spin when idling at a stoplight, your tires are FUBAR.


Next time you are sliding into an intersection that has been polished like glass give it a try, you'll be amazed at how much more control you have in reducing the vehicle's momentum. The car will come to a halt much quicker.

Notice also that there is no interlock between "drive" and "neutral". Its obvious that the intent was to make it simple to be able to lightly push the selector into neutral when required. Been doing it for many years as I drive on glare ice a lot, no problems ever.

However, I still see lots of people fight with the engine try to pull then onward into the intersection, watch their eyes getting bigger and bigger as they slide helplessly into the danger zone.

 

[Scott P]

All Season tires are fine in snow, but dedicated winter tires are awesome. I used to run all season until I bought a set of winter tires. The difference was amazing. Nothing could stop that car with those tires on.