Which one of you animal lovers is sending tens of thousands of $$ to Africa for animal conservation like this dentist? The locals are going to use the animals for money. It can either be very controlled and lucrative hunting or wholesale poaching for animal products. What isn't going to happen is very poor countries and residents set aside half their land so the animals can roam free and without interference.
An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion
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Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods? We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces. People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends. Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
I would love to argue that you are out of touch with reality, vis-a-vis management of wildlife (especially in populated areas). But it is obvious to me you are merely trolling concepts that a 12 year old child would find nonsensical.
But for others that disagree with sport hunting but do understand the controlling of wild life in unwanted areas like deer in suburbs.... I respect your position and understand it. I do hunt pheasants for sport. These birds are "stocked" by the State Game commission. which is paid for by license fees. Again..I respect others dislike of this but at the same time I will not shoot a bird as it flies out of its cages. Wouldn't even dream of doing it. But I have seen it.
I will also shoot ground hogs not as a sport but they decimate areas. They are very destructive. Its not unlike killing a mouse in a mouse trap.
I dislike the dentist for what he did.
Speaking of turtle and pheasants. Turtle is in love with ethanol. The expanded corn production has devastated the pheasant habitat and population(Field and Stream). Just another fake/ignorant environmentalist. Plowing up thousands of acres of habitat is good. You paying money to support conservation and shooting a few birds is evil.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods? We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces. People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends. Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
I would love to argue that you are out of touch with reality, vis-a-vis management of wildlife (especially in populated areas). But it is obvious to me you are merely trolling concepts that a 12 year old child would find nonsensical.
But for others that disagree with sport hunting but do understand the controlling of wild life in unwanted areas like deer in suburbs.... I respect your position and understand it. I do hunt pheasants for sport. These birds are "stocked" by the State Game commission. which is paid for by license fees. Again..I respect others dislike of this but at the same time I will not shoot a bird as it flies out of its cages. Wouldn't even dream of doing it. But I have seen it.
I will also shoot ground hogs not as a sport but they decimate areas. They are very destructive. Its not unlike killing a mouse in a mouse trap.
I dislike the dentist for what he did.
Speaking of turtle and pheasants. Turtle is in love with ethanol. The expanded corn production has devastated the pheasant habitat and population(Field and Stream). Just another fake/ignorant environmentalist. Plowing up thousands of acres of habitat is good. You paying money to support conservation and shooting a few birds is evil.
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Given the willful ignorance of some here regarding hunting in general, and lion hunting in particular, I'm beginning to question whether it's a good idea to come here for advice on oil. Anyone wishing to gain a better understanding of hunting in Africa would do well to read the writings of those who do it and have done it, now and in the past. I highly recommend Aagaard's Africa by Finn Aagaard.
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Speaking of turtle and pheasants. Turtle is in love with ethanol. The expanded corn production has devastated the pheasant habitat and population(Field and Stream). Just another fake/ignorant environmentalist. Plowing up thousands of acres of habitat is good. You paying money to support conservation and shooting a few birds is evil.
LOL..I knew eventually you and I could agree on something.
Speaking of turtle and pheasants. Turtle is in love with ethanol. The expanded corn production has devastated the pheasant habitat and population(Field and Stream). Just another fake/ignorant environmentalist. Plowing up thousands of acres of habitat is good. You paying money to support conservation and shooting a few birds is evil.
LOL..I knew eventually you and I could agree on something.
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Originally Posted By: totegoat
Did he use a bow or cross bow to wound the lion?
There was an AP news story that referred to Dr Palmer using a cross bow, but I'm sure that was wrong. Another dumb reporter that doesn't know anything about hunting. The only people who use crossbows for big game hunting are the disabled. In Maryland it's legal to use a crossbow for deer hunting if you have a disability that keeps you from drawing a bow. I'm sure Palmer used a compound bow like we've seen in his other pictures.
Did he use a bow or cross bow to wound the lion?
There was an AP news story that referred to Dr Palmer using a cross bow, but I'm sure that was wrong. Another dumb reporter that doesn't know anything about hunting. The only people who use crossbows for big game hunting are the disabled. In Maryland it's legal to use a crossbow for deer hunting if you have a disability that keeps you from drawing a bow. I'm sure Palmer used a compound bow like we've seen in his other pictures.
I grew up in a family of hunters so I hunted at an early age.
I do know what I am talking about.
I know the deer population needs to be controlled.
Just don't call it hunting,its just shooting.
Sorry to bust your macho I killed a wild animal bubble.
I do know what I am talking about.
I know the deer population needs to be controlled.
Just don't call it hunting,its just shooting.
Sorry to bust your macho I killed a wild animal bubble.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
Unless you are a vegan, yes. The end result is that animals die, and a lot MORE animals die in these mills.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
But they aren't pets, they are wild animals, whether you feed them or not. No different from free-range cattle, which also get fed in the same manner and then get a bolt through their forehead when it's time to make you some burgers or steaks.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
Unless you eat ZERO meat that argument is nonsense. I have the same right to hunt as you have to have farmer Bob slaughter a few pigs so you can have your bacon.
That of course means hunting in designated areas. Farmer Bob doesn't go over to Bill the corn farmer's place and start slaughtering his chickens. On that point we are in agreement, if you OWN THE LAND and have designated it non-hunting, then that needs to be respected (and generally is up here for the most part). But on Crown land or other places that are OK to hunt (sometimes, they are, as noted by another poster, even stocked), there is nothing wrong with it.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods?
Both my boys have rifles and will eventually graduate to larger calibres. They've both shot my .308 and .223. My kids, because they know about guns and hunting, wouldn't be out bopping around in the woods if those woods were being used for hunting.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces.
There are a TON of wide open spaces, some of them 20 minutes from my house. And because that trooper wasn't following safe hunting protocol, that means the whole sport needs to go? That's like banning cars because a few idiots get behind the wheel hammered.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends.
I'm guessing you don't live in the country? The wolves, bears coyotes and other predators certainly don't think you are their "friends". My buddy's dad feeds the deer but do you think he can get ANYWHERE near them? No, because they are wild animals!!
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
The ONLY wild animal I've ever been able to have come for me for a "hand out" has been a chipmunk, an animal that would stay around the house, and, like squirrels, occupies the same urban setting as we do. Which can also be said for skunks and raccoon's but I doubt you'll find many people feeding them.
It's a double standard, people who want to feel "close to nature" and "save the animals" and then come home and eat another animal, but that's OK because somebody else killed it.
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
Unless you are a vegan, yes. The end result is that animals die, and a lot MORE animals die in these mills.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
But they aren't pets, they are wild animals, whether you feed them or not. No different from free-range cattle, which also get fed in the same manner and then get a bolt through their forehead when it's time to make you some burgers or steaks.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
Unless you eat ZERO meat that argument is nonsense. I have the same right to hunt as you have to have farmer Bob slaughter a few pigs so you can have your bacon.
That of course means hunting in designated areas. Farmer Bob doesn't go over to Bill the corn farmer's place and start slaughtering his chickens. On that point we are in agreement, if you OWN THE LAND and have designated it non-hunting, then that needs to be respected (and generally is up here for the most part). But on Crown land or other places that are OK to hunt (sometimes, they are, as noted by another poster, even stocked), there is nothing wrong with it.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods?
Both my boys have rifles and will eventually graduate to larger calibres. They've both shot my .308 and .223. My kids, because they know about guns and hunting, wouldn't be out bopping around in the woods if those woods were being used for hunting.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces.
There are a TON of wide open spaces, some of them 20 minutes from my house. And because that trooper wasn't following safe hunting protocol, that means the whole sport needs to go? That's like banning cars because a few idiots get behind the wheel hammered.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends.
I'm guessing you don't live in the country? The wolves, bears coyotes and other predators certainly don't think you are their "friends". My buddy's dad feeds the deer but do you think he can get ANYWHERE near them? No, because they are wild animals!!
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
The ONLY wild animal I've ever been able to have come for me for a "hand out" has been a chipmunk, an animal that would stay around the house, and, like squirrels, occupies the same urban setting as we do. Which can also be said for skunks and raccoon's but I doubt you'll find many people feeding them.
It's a double standard, people who want to feel "close to nature" and "save the animals" and then come home and eat another animal, but that's OK because somebody else killed it.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
Unless you are a vegan, yes. The end result is that animals die, and a lot MORE animals die in these mills.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
But they aren't pets, they are wild animals, whether you feed them or not. No different from free-range cattle, which also get fed in the same manner and then get a bolt through their forehead when it's time to make you some burgers or steaks.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
Unless you eat ZERO meat that argument is nonsense. I have the same right to hunt as you have to have farmer Bob slaughter a few pigs so you can have your bacon.
That of course means hunting in designated areas. Farmer Bob doesn't go over to Bill the corn farmer's place and start slaughtering his chickens. On that point we are in agreement, if you OWN THE LAND and have designated it non-hunting, then that needs to be respected (and generally is up here for the most part). But on Crown land or other places that are OK to hunt (sometimes, they are, as noted by another poster, even stocked), there is nothing wrong with it.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods?
Both my boys have rifles and will eventually graduate to larger calibres. They've both shot my .308 and .223. My kids, because they know about guns and hunting, wouldn't be out bopping around in the woods if those woods were being used for hunting.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces.
There are a TON of wide open spaces, some of them 20 minutes from my house. And because that trooper wasn't following safe hunting protocol, that means the whole sport needs to go? That's like banning cars because a few idiots get behind the wheel hammered.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends.
I'm guessing you don't live in the country? The wolves, bears coyotes and other predators certainly don't think you are their "friends". My buddy's dad feeds the deer but do you think he can get ANYWHERE near them? No, because they are wild animals!!
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
The ONLY wild animal I've ever been able to have come for me for a "hand out" has been a chipmunk, an animal that would stay around the house, and, like squirrels, occupies the same urban setting as we do. Which can also be said for skunks and raccoon's but I doubt you'll find many people feeding them.
It's a double standard, people who want to feel "close to nature" and "save the animals" and then come home and eat another animal, but that's OK because somebody else killed it.
Excellent posts for those ignorant wrt hunting.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
Unless you are a vegan, yes. The end result is that animals die, and a lot MORE animals die in these mills.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
But they aren't pets, they are wild animals, whether you feed them or not. No different from free-range cattle, which also get fed in the same manner and then get a bolt through their forehead when it's time to make you some burgers or steaks.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
Unless you eat ZERO meat that argument is nonsense. I have the same right to hunt as you have to have farmer Bob slaughter a few pigs so you can have your bacon.
That of course means hunting in designated areas. Farmer Bob doesn't go over to Bill the corn farmer's place and start slaughtering his chickens. On that point we are in agreement, if you OWN THE LAND and have designated it non-hunting, then that needs to be respected (and generally is up here for the most part). But on Crown land or other places that are OK to hunt (sometimes, they are, as noted by another poster, even stocked), there is nothing wrong with it.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods?
Both my boys have rifles and will eventually graduate to larger calibres. They've both shot my .308 and .223. My kids, because they know about guns and hunting, wouldn't be out bopping around in the woods if those woods were being used for hunting.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces.
There are a TON of wide open spaces, some of them 20 minutes from my house. And because that trooper wasn't following safe hunting protocol, that means the whole sport needs to go? That's like banning cars because a few idiots get behind the wheel hammered.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends.
I'm guessing you don't live in the country? The wolves, bears coyotes and other predators certainly don't think you are their "friends". My buddy's dad feeds the deer but do you think he can get ANYWHERE near them? No, because they are wild animals!!
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
The ONLY wild animal I've ever been able to have come for me for a "hand out" has been a chipmunk, an animal that would stay around the house, and, like squirrels, occupies the same urban setting as we do. Which can also be said for skunks and raccoon's but I doubt you'll find many people feeding them.
It's a double standard, people who want to feel "close to nature" and "save the animals" and then come home and eat another animal, but that's OK because somebody else killed it.
Excellent posts for those ignorant wrt hunting.
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I dont get how any level headed person could be against hunting, but still eat meat. I had a lib great uncle like this actually.
A cow raised for butcher will get butchered eventually. Same with hogs, sheep, poultry etc. A deer, wild turkey, feral hog etc. will be in the wild and will stand more of a "fair" chance of survival if hunted by a man. Hunting the mentioned three also requires a certain level of skill.
I consider hunting more "fair" than going to the store and buying some steak.
A cow raised for butcher will get butchered eventually. Same with hogs, sheep, poultry etc. A deer, wild turkey, feral hog etc. will be in the wild and will stand more of a "fair" chance of survival if hunted by a man. Hunting the mentioned three also requires a certain level of skill.
I consider hunting more "fair" than going to the store and buying some steak.
Bored self centered people only looking for a cheap thrill and instead of doing something useful they want instant gratification.
To become a dentist with a successful practice takes an above average intelligence level. But deriving gratification from a pointless act of violence toward a living creature suggests a very simple-minded psychology and quite frankly, low IQ.
Blowing $50k traveling to the other side of the globe to shoot an animal with a gun....unreal. A majestic animal no less...source of gratification? His primitive side of brain took over. Happens all too often.
To become a dentist with a successful practice takes an above average intelligence level. But deriving gratification from a pointless act of violence toward a living creature suggests a very simple-minded psychology and quite frankly, low IQ.
Blowing $50k traveling to the other side of the globe to shoot an animal with a gun....unreal. A majestic animal no less...source of gratification? His primitive side of brain took over. Happens all too often.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
I don't think Palmer is just the guy down the road hunting overpopulated, completely non-endangered deer. He may have just been an ignorant participant, but apparently he has been in trouble for lying to a game warden before. And it seems unlikely everyone in this hunting party was just oblivious to the fact this lion was a protected animal that was part of a study. And more importantly, that this animal was used to interacting with people and to an extent probably trusted people.
If Palmer really was just dumb, he should have at least hired guides who were not also dumb. First off, you would think any professional, respectable guide would be aware that there may be protected, tracked animals INSIDE of a wildlife preserve. If you go into a wildlife preserve to lure an animal out, maybe make sure it's one you can legally kill and not a park pet.
Second, be a good enough shot to kill the animal reasonably quickly. Either Palmer is awful at hunting, or there was a perverse desire to see the animal suffer for the 40 hours from the initial bad shot to the actual death of the animal. Sick. The picture of him holding the bloody carcass of a leopard while shirtless is creepy, and makes me think he's probably in it for the blood and guts most of all. To top that off by NOT using most of the meat seems disrespectful and wasteful. Everyone I know who hunts deer has it butchered and uses the meat. Everyone. I don't know a single deer hunter who just rips the head off and leaves the rotting carcass.
Then, they go and try to destroy the GPS tracker. Whether or not they knew the lion was protected before hand, when they did that, they knew they were doing something wrong. The right thing to do would have been to contact a game warden when they realized they had killed something they weren't supposed to. Instead they tried to cover it up, probably because they knew from the beginning they weren't supposed to kill this one. People like this are not conservation minded and just doing their good deed...the only difference between this guy and a local poacher is the amount of money he has.
If this guy had simply had an honest hunt and followed the rules he was supposed to, none of this would have happened. Instead it was about tasting the blood of something rare...I wonder if [censored] on his own livelihood was worth it?
And really, hunters should be mad at Palmer, not standing behind him. It's people like him who will get legal hunting banned because they can't help but try to break the rules "just a little."
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
I don't think Palmer is just the guy down the road hunting overpopulated, completely non-endangered deer. He may have just been an ignorant participant, but apparently he has been in trouble for lying to a game warden before. And it seems unlikely everyone in this hunting party was just oblivious to the fact this lion was a protected animal that was part of a study. And more importantly, that this animal was used to interacting with people and to an extent probably trusted people.
If Palmer really was just dumb, he should have at least hired guides who were not also dumb. First off, you would think any professional, respectable guide would be aware that there may be protected, tracked animals INSIDE of a wildlife preserve. If you go into a wildlife preserve to lure an animal out, maybe make sure it's one you can legally kill and not a park pet.
Second, be a good enough shot to kill the animal reasonably quickly. Either Palmer is awful at hunting, or there was a perverse desire to see the animal suffer for the 40 hours from the initial bad shot to the actual death of the animal. Sick. The picture of him holding the bloody carcass of a leopard while shirtless is creepy, and makes me think he's probably in it for the blood and guts most of all. To top that off by NOT using most of the meat seems disrespectful and wasteful. Everyone I know who hunts deer has it butchered and uses the meat. Everyone. I don't know a single deer hunter who just rips the head off and leaves the rotting carcass.
Then, they go and try to destroy the GPS tracker. Whether or not they knew the lion was protected before hand, when they did that, they knew they were doing something wrong. The right thing to do would have been to contact a game warden when they realized they had killed something they weren't supposed to. Instead they tried to cover it up, probably because they knew from the beginning they weren't supposed to kill this one. People like this are not conservation minded and just doing their good deed...the only difference between this guy and a local poacher is the amount of money he has.
If this guy had simply had an honest hunt and followed the rules he was supposed to, none of this would have happened. Instead it was about tasting the blood of something rare...I wonder if [censored] on his own livelihood was worth it?
And really, hunters should be mad at Palmer, not standing behind him. It's people like him who will get legal hunting banned because they can't help but try to break the rules "just a little."
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
people are outraged over a lion killed by someone with more money than sense, yet they ignore trafficking in human body parts...
I think it only seems that way, at this point with the clowns running the circus there isn’t much we can do about it but that’s going to change.
On the other hand this is an individual who is known, its only a matter of time before someone gets him.
people are outraged over a lion killed by someone with more money than sense, yet they ignore trafficking in human body parts...
I think it only seems that way, at this point with the clowns running the circus there isn’t much we can do about it but that’s going to change.
On the other hand this is an individual who is known, its only a matter of time before someone gets him.
Originally Posted By: Dwight_Frye
I have nothing against hunting including trophy hunting. However I deplore "canned" hunts and disagree with bow hunting. Yeah, I know you have to get closer with a bow but I feel it is only fair to make a clean fast kill and not make an animal suffer as must do when shot with an arrow, especially something larger than a whitetail deer. He should have gone into the long grass with a suitable caliber rifle and hunted it at what one of my favorite authors, Peter Hathaway Capstick used to call "halitosis range".
I love those Capstick books about hunting, the man-eaters of Tsavo, etc. He was considered a "cat man," an expert at hunting lions and leopards. He generally used a .475 Nitro Express for lions if I recall correctly. In one of the books, during a safari a lioness was trying to get in through the roof of his grass hut in the middle of the night. He fired both barrels blindly up toward the rustling of grass, hitting her in the chest with one of them. After the adrenaline wore off he said it took about ten tries to light a cigarette, he was shaking so bad. What a life that guy had!
I have nothing against hunting including trophy hunting. However I deplore "canned" hunts and disagree with bow hunting. Yeah, I know you have to get closer with a bow but I feel it is only fair to make a clean fast kill and not make an animal suffer as must do when shot with an arrow, especially something larger than a whitetail deer. He should have gone into the long grass with a suitable caliber rifle and hunted it at what one of my favorite authors, Peter Hathaway Capstick used to call "halitosis range".
I love those Capstick books about hunting, the man-eaters of Tsavo, etc. He was considered a "cat man," an expert at hunting lions and leopards. He generally used a .475 Nitro Express for lions if I recall correctly. In one of the books, during a safari a lioness was trying to get in through the roof of his grass hut in the middle of the night. He fired both barrels blindly up toward the rustling of grass, hitting her in the chest with one of them. After the adrenaline wore off he said it took about ten tries to light a cigarette, he was shaking so bad. What a life that guy had!
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/dfg/dfw/wildlife/wildlife-living/living-with-deer.pdf
Quote:
White-tailed deer are well-adapted to surviving southern New England winters. In addition to being able to use stored body fat, their metabolism decreases during the winter, which allows them to survive on limited quantities of food and accommodates the winter diet. Supplemental feeding, especially in winter, can actually harm deer by increasing travel, raising their metabolic rate, and giving them a false sense of food supply. Deer may be enticed to remain in an area that doesn’t provide good winter habitat. Feeding wild deer can also concentrate deer in high numbers, making them vulnerable to predation and vehicle collisions as well as to increased disease transmission and the development of “problem” traits such as when they lose their fear humans and become accustomed to human hand-outs. The biologists at the Division of Fisheries and Wildlife (MassWildlife) discourage landowners and neighbors of conservation lands from feeding deer – and other wild animals – at any time of the year, but especially in the winter. Please resist the urge to feed wild animals, as this activity results in more harm than good for Bay State wildlife.
Ed
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/dfg/dfw/wildlife/wildlife-living/living-with-deer.pdf
Quote:
White-tailed deer are well-adapted to surviving southern New England winters. In addition to being able to use stored body fat, their metabolism decreases during the winter, which allows them to survive on limited quantities of food and accommodates the winter diet. Supplemental feeding, especially in winter, can actually harm deer by increasing travel, raising their metabolic rate, and giving them a false sense of food supply. Deer may be enticed to remain in an area that doesn’t provide good winter habitat. Feeding wild deer can also concentrate deer in high numbers, making them vulnerable to predation and vehicle collisions as well as to increased disease transmission and the development of “problem” traits such as when they lose their fear humans and become accustomed to human hand-outs. The biologists at the Division of Fisheries and Wildlife (MassWildlife) discourage landowners and neighbors of conservation lands from feeding deer – and other wild animals – at any time of the year, but especially in the winter. Please resist the urge to feed wild animals, as this activity results in more harm than good for Bay State wildlife.
Ed
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
I don't think Palmer is just the guy down the road hunting overpopulated, completely non-endangered deer. He may have just been an ignorant participant, but apparently he has been in trouble for lying to a game warden before. And it seems unlikely everyone in this hunting party was just oblivious to the fact this lion was a protected animal that was part of a study. And more importantly, that this animal was used to interacting with people and to an extent probably trusted people.
*snip*
Just so we are clear, ALL of my posts in this thread when hunting is being discussed are regarding animals that will be consumed for food. I am not a fan of trophy hunting and I made that clear on the first page.
I am NOT supportive of Palmer or what he has done.
There are two different conversations going on in this thread about hunting, one is about trophy hunting, the other is about more traditional game hunting for fowl, deer, moose, bear...etc, where the animal is consumed. I am opposed to trophy hunting, as it serves no real purpose but am a fan of regulated game hunts as it works to keep population numbers in check and provides (delicious) food as well.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
I don't think Palmer is just the guy down the road hunting overpopulated, completely non-endangered deer. He may have just been an ignorant participant, but apparently he has been in trouble for lying to a game warden before. And it seems unlikely everyone in this hunting party was just oblivious to the fact this lion was a protected animal that was part of a study. And more importantly, that this animal was used to interacting with people and to an extent probably trusted people.
*snip*
Just so we are clear, ALL of my posts in this thread when hunting is being discussed are regarding animals that will be consumed for food. I am not a fan of trophy hunting and I made that clear on the first page.
I am NOT supportive of Palmer or what he has done.
There are two different conversations going on in this thread about hunting, one is about trophy hunting, the other is about more traditional game hunting for fowl, deer, moose, bear...etc, where the animal is consumed. I am opposed to trophy hunting, as it serves no real purpose but am a fan of regulated game hunts as it works to keep population numbers in check and provides (delicious) food as well.
I am really offended by the notion that the animal suffered badly and that the creature had grown to trust humans. The punk who shot him belonged in an infantry unit in Iraq, where they shot back. I doubt he had the turnips. You understand that the big brave "guide" carries a 455 nitro rifle or some such to "protect" the brave hinter from the tame lion.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
I don't think Palmer is just the guy down the road hunting overpopulated, completely non-endangered deer. He may have just been an ignorant participant, but apparently he has been in trouble for lying to a game warden before. And it seems unlikely everyone in this hunting party was just oblivious to the fact this lion was a protected animal that was part of a study. And more importantly, that this animal was used to interacting with people and to an extent probably trusted people.
If Palmer really was just dumb, he should have at least hired guides who were not also dumb. First off, you would think any professional, respectable guide would be aware that there may be protected, tracked animals INSIDE of a wildlife preserve. If you go into a wildlife preserve to lure an animal out, maybe make sure it's one you can legally kill and not a park pet.
Second, be a good enough shot to kill the animal reasonably quickly. Either Palmer is awful at hunting, or there was a perverse desire to see the animal suffer for the 40 hours from the initial bad shot to the actual death of the animal. Sick. The picture of him holding the bloody carcass of a leopard while shirtless is creepy, and makes me think he's probably in it for the blood and guts most of all. To top that off by NOT using most of the meat seems disrespectful and wasteful. Everyone I know who hunts deer has it butchered and uses the meat. Everyone. I don't know a single deer hunter who just rips the head off and leaves the rotting carcass.
Then, they go and try to destroy the GPS tracker. Whether or not they knew the lion was protected before hand, when they did that, they knew they were doing something wrong. The right thing to do would have been to contact a game warden when they realized they had killed something they weren't supposed to. Instead they tried to cover it up, probably because they knew from the beginning they weren't supposed to kill this one. People like this are not conservation minded and just doing their good deed...the only difference between this guy and a local poacher is the amount of money he has.
If this guy had simply had an honest hunt and followed the rules he was supposed to, none of this would have happened. Instead it was about tasting the blood of something rare...I wonder if [censored] on his own livelihood was worth it?
And really, hunters should be mad at Palmer, not standing behind him. It's people like him who will get legal hunting banned because they can't help but try to break the rules "just a little."
+1
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
I don't think Palmer is just the guy down the road hunting overpopulated, completely non-endangered deer. He may have just been an ignorant participant, but apparently he has been in trouble for lying to a game warden before. And it seems unlikely everyone in this hunting party was just oblivious to the fact this lion was a protected animal that was part of a study. And more importantly, that this animal was used to interacting with people and to an extent probably trusted people.
If Palmer really was just dumb, he should have at least hired guides who were not also dumb. First off, you would think any professional, respectable guide would be aware that there may be protected, tracked animals INSIDE of a wildlife preserve. If you go into a wildlife preserve to lure an animal out, maybe make sure it's one you can legally kill and not a park pet.
Second, be a good enough shot to kill the animal reasonably quickly. Either Palmer is awful at hunting, or there was a perverse desire to see the animal suffer for the 40 hours from the initial bad shot to the actual death of the animal. Sick. The picture of him holding the bloody carcass of a leopard while shirtless is creepy, and makes me think he's probably in it for the blood and guts most of all. To top that off by NOT using most of the meat seems disrespectful and wasteful. Everyone I know who hunts deer has it butchered and uses the meat. Everyone. I don't know a single deer hunter who just rips the head off and leaves the rotting carcass.
Then, they go and try to destroy the GPS tracker. Whether or not they knew the lion was protected before hand, when they did that, they knew they were doing something wrong. The right thing to do would have been to contact a game warden when they realized they had killed something they weren't supposed to. Instead they tried to cover it up, probably because they knew from the beginning they weren't supposed to kill this one. People like this are not conservation minded and just doing their good deed...the only difference between this guy and a local poacher is the amount of money he has.
If this guy had simply had an honest hunt and followed the rules he was supposed to, none of this would have happened. Instead it was about tasting the blood of something rare...I wonder if [censored] on his own livelihood was worth it?
And really, hunters should be mad at Palmer, not standing behind him. It's people like him who will get legal hunting banned because they can't help but try to break the rules "just a little."
+1
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I am really offended by the notion that the animal suffered badly and that the creature had grown to trust humans. The punk who shot him belonged in an infantry unit in Iraq, where they shot back. I doubt he had the turnips. You understand that the big brave "guide" carries a 455 nitro rifle or some such to "protect" the brave hinter from the tame lion.
You don't know anything about hunting in Africa, do you. (That's not a question.)
I am really offended by the notion that the animal suffered badly and that the creature had grown to trust humans. The punk who shot him belonged in an infantry unit in Iraq, where they shot back. I doubt he had the turnips. You understand that the big brave "guide" carries a 455 nitro rifle or some such to "protect" the brave hinter from the tame lion.
You don't know anything about hunting in Africa, do you. (That's not a question.)
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