VW admits to rigging diesel emissions

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The complaint I know of with TDI owners is New England winter/cold weather and short trips yields
The main issue I have is they overcharge for the option of an engine. I don't really believe it costs that more to produce a TDI vs TSI engine. Just what the market bears which is currently a lot since there is no competition for diesel models in US.
 
diesel equipped cars are much more expensive to produce because of the exhaust treatment systems and the expensive fuel injection equipment. A turbo adds to the cost aswell.

$2-3000 over a similar equipped NA petrol is normal and to be expected
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My TDI proves otherwise. Was drop dead reliable for 10 years, then started showing it's age.


That's pretty good for a VW.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
diesel equipped cars are much more expensive to produce because of the exhaust treatment systems and the expensive fuel injection equipment. A turbo adds to the cost aswell.

$2-3000 over a similar equipped NA petrol is normal and to be expected


A TSI also has a turbo and fuel injection and spark plugs, coil packs etc. Not buying the $2k-$3k price increase except for ability to charge it.

MB baseline motor for E class and GL class is the BlueTech diesel and is cheaper by a few thousand dollars.
 
Originally Posted By: nthach
But seriously, I might be pushing conspiracy but maybe VW knows their diesels can't compete with a PZEV-rated vehicle or the hybrids from the mighty Toyota? Seeing how CARB didn't let VAG sell the TDI Golf/Jetta in California for a while since they are in bed with Toyota and Honda and CARB didn't want to see Prius sales in competition. I know VW did at one point license license a few SCR-related patents from Daimler but decided not to use SCR on a earlier batch of TDIs?

"Since they are in bed with Toyota"? Do we have any PROOF of that?
 
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
diesel equipped cars are much more expensive to produce because of the exhaust treatment systems and the expensive fuel injection equipment. A turbo adds to the cost aswell.

$2-3000 over a similar equipped NA petrol is normal and to be expected


A TSI also has a turbo and fuel injection and spark plugs, coil packs etc. Not buying the $2k-$3k price increase except for ability to charge it.

MB baseline motor for E class and GL class is the BlueTech diesel and is cheaper by a few thousand dollars.


a tsi would be less than 2000 euro more expensive, but the injection equipment is cheaper and it wouldn't have much of exhaust treatment beyond a catalyst.

you will find the bigger engines are always more expensive, that's the premium you pay when moving up in the pricelist.

Here in europe diesels still sell more than petrols. A very competitive market yet they are more expensive than comparable petrols. Diesels always have been more complicated, and they still are.
 
Get your "Pre-Ban" VW Diesels while you still can....

(a little joke, as VW no longer sells smokers in the states)

I'm half tempted to pick one up.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The power elite don't want diesel to be the "go to" fuel in the US.

Too many people have their money invested in refining gasoline.

So USEPA has set a high emissions standard for the US diesel auto market.

That's the reason Mazda can't reach the standard with their diesel yet.

VW couldn't make it without cooking the books.

It's all about the money boys.



A) That's absolutely ridiculous
B) Cummins, VM Motori, Isuzu, Daimler, and plenty of others meet the rules just fine. VW wanted to cheat to provide better performance
C) If the mythical 'power elite' want to harm diesel sales in the US, then they probably suggested this fiasco to VW because that's EXACTLY what its going to do. VW just whizzed in the bathtub of diesel vehicle sales in a way we haven't seen since the Oldsmobile diesel of 1978.


Nothing ridiculous about this at all.

The diesel powered niche vehicles you cite total to less than 1% of all vehicles sold in the US.

The European emissions standards for diesel vehicles are more than adequate. Why must the US require a different standard except to establish additional, burdensome technological hurdles for the US auto market?

What is the US capacity to refine diesel in lieu of gasoline for the 250 million vehicles on US roadways?

How long has it been since a new refinery, gasoline or otherwise, has been sited and brought on line under EPA regulations in the US?

What would be the drop in stock prices for US fuel producers for the conversion from gasoline to diesel?

And electric cars are marginalized technology and offer no threat for serious market share for the forseeable future.
 
Agreed SilverC6....this is about certain corporate interests and those that are allied with them in political positios that have a vested interest in keeping diesel passenger vehicles off the road in the USA.

Of course VW should have tried to lobby to change the emissions laws in the USA, I believe that someone said that the air coming out of a diesel passenger vehicle today (even with the VW emissions defeat software) is as clean as the air coming into the intake system. It's clear to me that special interests are trying to keep diesel passenger from becoming mainstream here.

Again something that most folks don't realize is that diesel fuel takes less energy to refine, (less pollution from production) and costs less to refine as well.
 
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Maybe VW should have figured out how to properly engineer a car to meet the emission laws instead of cheating and breaking the law. It's not that the emissions rules are too tight because VW wasn't even close to meeting the emission rules. 40x the emission levels! Shameful.
 
This is why changing oil is do important because as oil gets better, the manufacturers are keeping more of the combustion by products in the engine instead of out the tail pipe. Me myself think the whole thing is politics. We have to meet rediculas emmision standards and they can run whatever in about 90% of the rest of the Planet. Not to mention one volcano leaks out more air pollution then all the cars. It's all politics and revenue for the green weeenies.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Maybe VW should have figured out how to properly engineer a car to meet the emission laws instead of cheating and breaking the law. It's not that the emissions rules are too tight because VW wasn't even close to meeting the emission rules. 40x the emission levels! Shameful.


That air, even with up to 40x the legal EPA emissions, is still cleaner than the typical air you might breath in the typical east coast suburb. The emissions laws in the USA are unreasonable and silly, but they are the law and VW should have complied with the laws, and lobbied to have them brought down to logical levels.
Even so it is easy as pie to flash a ECU after you buy the car so you can still get better performance without having the manufacturer directly involved.

If I was VW I would have complied with EPA laws and then given all Diesel owners a 200$ gift card to do with as they wished.
wink.gif
01.gif
 
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
That air, even with up to 40x the legal EPA emissions, is still cleaner than the typical air you might breath in the typical east coast suburb. The emissions laws in the USA are unreasonable and silly, but they are the law and VW should have complied with the laws, and lobbied to have them brought down to logical levels.
Even so it is easy as pie to flash a ECU after you buy the car so you can still get better performance without having the manufacturer directly involved.

If I was VW I would have complied with EPA laws and then given all Diesel owners a 200$ gift card to do with as they wished.
wink.gif
01.gif


Post a link showing this is true about NOx levels on East Coast.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
IMO, but EPA has outlives its usefulness for a long, long time now. They should be relegated to simple monitoring and compliance of the manufacturers with existing limits and not setting new ones.
What they do now has no relation to protecting the environment, but extracting as much money as they can.

I agree wholeheartedly. Over the decades, the EPA has done a good job with cars. Now they need to step back and police what they've accomplished -- and not push their automotive agenda further.

Cars have gotten so clean in the early decades of regulation, that EPA has lately been trying to squeeze out incredibly small bits of pollution that require herculean efforts to accomplish. The cost/benefit just isn't there anymore.

Cars are so clean in California, that they aren't the main contributors of smog anymore. Not that I want to give them ideas, but lawn mowers and barbecues are now a considerably significant source of pollution.

For the past 20 years, I know I pollute more every week when I mow the lawn, than my weekly commuting to work.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I agree wholeheartedly. Over the decades, the EPA has done a good job with cars. Now they need to step back and police what they've accomplished -- and not push their automotive agenda further.

Not to get political, since this really applies in many organizations, but unfortunately, they're not likely to do that. Petty empire building in organizations is well documented and they will never do so voluntarily, unless someone actually makes them.

Perhaps leave the emissions alone a little bit right now. With the diesels, that's perhaps a good thing. Let the diesel emissions stuff mature a little bit. Maybe worry a bit more about fuel economy. I don't know what the solution is, but you're very right about diminishing returns.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Maybe VW should have figured out how to properly engineer a car to meet the emission laws instead of cheating and breaking the law. It's not that the emissions rules are too tight because VW wasn't even close to meeting the emission rules. 40x the emission levels! Shameful.


So, the Obama Administration[EPA] is going to fine the life out of VW for breaking the law.

How many laws has the Obama Administration flat out broken, or ignored? Ever hear of Fast and Furious?
 
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Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Maybe VW should have figured out how to properly engineer a car to meet the emission laws instead of cheating and breaking the law. It's not that the emissions rules are too tight because VW wasn't even close to meeting the emission rules. 40x the emission levels! Shameful.


So, the Obama Administration[EPA] is going to fine the life out of VW for breaking the law.

How many laws has the Obama Administration flat out broken, or ignored? Ever hear of Fast and Furious?


Not sure what your point it. You try to justify VW breaking the law because you don't like the Administration? Where does that argument end? Do they just let every law breaker off the hook?

Not sure about your reference to the Fast and the Furious. I can watch the movie again to see if there were any VW's but I don't recall any. What's your point?
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
IMO, but EPA has outlives its usefulness for a long, long time now. They should be relegated to simple monitoring and compliance of the manufacturers with existing limits and not setting new ones.
What they do now has no relation to protecting the environment, but extracting as much money as they can.

I agree wholeheartedly. Over the decades, the EPA has done a good job with cars. Now they need to step back and police what they've accomplished -- and not push their automotive agenda further.

Cars have gotten so clean in the early decades of regulation, that EPA has lately been trying to squeeze out incredibly small bits of pollution that require herculean efforts to accomplish. The cost/benefit just isn't there anymore.

Cars are so clean in California, that they aren't the main contributors of smog anymore. Not that I want to give them ideas, but lawn mowers and barbecues are now a considerably significant source of pollution.

For the past 20 years, I know I pollute more every week when I mow the lawn, than my weekly commuting to work.
+1

Problem is "There is nothing so permanent as a temporary government program" - R. Reagan [paraphrased]
 
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