Valvoline vs Mobil 1 - Round 2
- Thread starter buster
- Start date
- Status
I am probably going to word this wrong, but, do you think that maybe Valvoline is trying to set the stage, build a foundation, or whatever, to become like an over the counter Amsoil? Maybe they would like to be known as an API certified, small company thus higher attention to detail, compete with the boutique oils yet be available at Walmart. Knowattaimean?
I agree with buster. I just think they want to jab at the big boy and grab some market share.
Frank D
Frank D
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This was pointed out to me a few minutes ago.....
The API certification for ALL M1 grades were renewed on December 5th, 2008.
This means that ALL these oils were TESTED for and PASSED the API certification process.
http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0020
Of particular interest of course, to the content of this thread:
Code:
MOBIL 1 5W-30 SM/CF* March 9, 2009
That's right ladies and gentlemen. M1 5w30 passed the SM/CF certification on December 5th, 2008 and is licensed to carry the API logo on it's bottles until March 9th, 2009.
The API certification for ALL M1 grades were renewed on December 5th, 2008.
This means that ALL these oils were TESTED for and PASSED the API certification process.
http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0020
Of particular interest of course, to the content of this thread:
Code:
MOBIL 1 5W-30 SM/CF* March 9, 2009
That's right ladies and gentlemen. M1 5w30 passed the SM/CF certification on December 5th, 2008 and is licensed to carry the API logo on it's bottles until March 9th, 2009.
I went over the link but could not find any indication of testing, only extension of certification until march 2009. Where does it specify all of M1's oils were retested. The reason I ask is because the list contains some oils that M1 no longer makes.
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Originally Posted By: FrankN4
I went over the link but could not find any indication of testing, only extension of certification until march 2009. Where does it specify all of M1's oils were retested. The reason I ask is because the list contains some oils that M1 no longer makes.
No longer makes HERE or no longer makes?
I will find more info on the testing.
I went over the link but could not find any indication of testing, only extension of certification until march 2009. Where does it specify all of M1's oils were retested. The reason I ask is because the list contains some oils that M1 no longer makes.
No longer makes HERE or no longer makes?
I will find more info on the testing.
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From the API:
Quote:
Overview
API’s Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System (EOLCS) is a voluntary licensing and certification program that authorizes engine oil marketers who meet specified requirements to use the API Engine Oil Quality Marks. Launched in 1993, API’s Engine Oil Program is a cooperative effort between the oil and additive industries and vehicle and engine manufacturers Ford, General Motors, and DaimlerChrysler and those represented by the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association and the Engine Manufacturers Association. The performance requirements and test methods are established by vehicle and engine manufacturers and technical societies and trade associations such as the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM), Society for Automotive Engineers (SAE), and American Chemistry Council (ACC).
The Engine Oil Program is backed by an ongoing monitoring and enforcement program that ensures licensees adhere to program requirements. This includes running physical, chemical, and performance tests on licensed engine oils and verifying that the API-registered Marks are properly displayed on containers and convey accurate information to consumers.
About half of the program’s more than 500 licensees are based in the United States, and the other half are spread among more than 50 countries. A complete list of licensees is available on our licensee directory. More than 8,000 products now display API Marks.
And:
Quote:
Requirements
The program’s requirements are described in API 1509, Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System. This standard describes the program’s performance requirements, explains the current engine oil service categories, shows how the marks are to be used, and explains the monitoring and enforcement program. Standards referenced by API 1509, such as ASTM D 4485, Standard Specification for Performance of Engine Oils, and SAE J300, Engine Oil Viscosity Classification, also play a critical role in defining the program. These can be purchased through their sponsoring organizations.
Monitoring and Enforcement Program
API has been testing off-the-shelf engine oils carrying the API Starburst and Donut under its Aftermarket Audit Program (AMAP) since 1994 and in 1999 began testing product dispensed from tanks and drums at quick-lube facilities, service stations, auto dealerships, and truck maintenance facilities. AMAP superseded the Oil Labeling Assessment Program (OLAP), a testing program jointly funded by the U.S. Army, the Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA), the former American Automobile Manufacturers Association (AAMA), and API. In the last 10 years, API has tested more than 5,000 licensed oils from around the world.
Under AMAP, API-licensed engine oils are purchased in the marketplace and tested to determine their physical, chemical, and performance properties. The results are compared to licensee formulations on file at API. Conforming oils show test results that are consistent with the formulations on-file and meet program requirements. All samples undergo elemental analysis, viscosity at 100°C, and high-temperature/high-shear testing. They may also be tested for cold cranking, pumpability, volatility, gelation, foaming, filterability, flash point, and shear stability. Product packages are checked to make sure they correctly display the API Marks and carry product trace codes. A number of oils also undergo actual industry engine sequence testing for oxidation, deposits, sludge, varnish, and wear.
Enforcement
If a licensed oil does not match the physical and chemical data on file with API, API will work with the licensee to evaluate the nonconformity and take appropriate corrective action. Unresolved nonconformance issues are subject to additional enforcement actions spelled out in API 1509. Actions may include termination of the license to display the API Marks and removal of noncomplying product from the marketplace. If a licensed or unlicensed oil displays an improper label or unauthorized labeling data, API will require the marketer to cease and desist from committing the violation and will request verification that the violation has been corrected.
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Updated:August 12, 2008
Quote:
Overview
API’s Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System (EOLCS) is a voluntary licensing and certification program that authorizes engine oil marketers who meet specified requirements to use the API Engine Oil Quality Marks. Launched in 1993, API’s Engine Oil Program is a cooperative effort between the oil and additive industries and vehicle and engine manufacturers Ford, General Motors, and DaimlerChrysler and those represented by the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association and the Engine Manufacturers Association. The performance requirements and test methods are established by vehicle and engine manufacturers and technical societies and trade associations such as the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM), Society for Automotive Engineers (SAE), and American Chemistry Council (ACC).
The Engine Oil Program is backed by an ongoing monitoring and enforcement program that ensures licensees adhere to program requirements. This includes running physical, chemical, and performance tests on licensed engine oils and verifying that the API-registered Marks are properly displayed on containers and convey accurate information to consumers.
About half of the program’s more than 500 licensees are based in the United States, and the other half are spread among more than 50 countries. A complete list of licensees is available on our licensee directory. More than 8,000 products now display API Marks.
And:
Quote:
Requirements
The program’s requirements are described in API 1509, Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System. This standard describes the program’s performance requirements, explains the current engine oil service categories, shows how the marks are to be used, and explains the monitoring and enforcement program. Standards referenced by API 1509, such as ASTM D 4485, Standard Specification for Performance of Engine Oils, and SAE J300, Engine Oil Viscosity Classification, also play a critical role in defining the program. These can be purchased through their sponsoring organizations.
Monitoring and Enforcement Program
API has been testing off-the-shelf engine oils carrying the API Starburst and Donut under its Aftermarket Audit Program (AMAP) since 1994 and in 1999 began testing product dispensed from tanks and drums at quick-lube facilities, service stations, auto dealerships, and truck maintenance facilities. AMAP superseded the Oil Labeling Assessment Program (OLAP), a testing program jointly funded by the U.S. Army, the Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA), the former American Automobile Manufacturers Association (AAMA), and API. In the last 10 years, API has tested more than 5,000 licensed oils from around the world.
Under AMAP, API-licensed engine oils are purchased in the marketplace and tested to determine their physical, chemical, and performance properties. The results are compared to licensee formulations on file at API. Conforming oils show test results that are consistent with the formulations on-file and meet program requirements. All samples undergo elemental analysis, viscosity at 100°C, and high-temperature/high-shear testing. They may also be tested for cold cranking, pumpability, volatility, gelation, foaming, filterability, flash point, and shear stability. Product packages are checked to make sure they correctly display the API Marks and carry product trace codes. A number of oils also undergo actual industry engine sequence testing for oxidation, deposits, sludge, varnish, and wear.
Enforcement
If a licensed oil does not match the physical and chemical data on file with API, API will work with the licensee to evaluate the nonconformity and take appropriate corrective action. Unresolved nonconformance issues are subject to additional enforcement actions spelled out in API 1509. Actions may include termination of the license to display the API Marks and removal of noncomplying product from the marketplace. If a licensed or unlicensed oil displays an improper label or unauthorized labeling data, API will require the marketer to cease and desist from committing the violation and will request verification that the violation has been corrected.
Newsroom
In the Classroom
About API
Print this page Print this page
Latest News
U.S. oil demand and prices drop in November: API
More
U.S. petroleum demand-reduction rate largest since early 1980s: API
More
Related Meeting
API Inspector Summit - Jan. 27-30, 2009 - Galveston, Texas
Related Links
API WorkSafeTM
ISO
Updated:August 12, 2008
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Quote:
Licensing Forms
Marketers of engine oil must obtain a license from API to use the API Engine Oil Quality Marks: the API Service Symbol "Donut" and Certification Mark "Starburst." The use of the API Marks is a marketer's warranty that its licensed oils comply with the requirements set forth in API 1509 and API's Application for Licensure. The license application requires the applicant to certify that its oils meet Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System (EOLCS) requirements.
You can download API's Application for Licensure using the links below. Please review the application instructions before completing any of the application. New applicants must complete Parts A through D (Part E is optional). The Amended License Agreement is needed only when making additions to an already established license. All forms are available in writable Adobe PDF format.
Licensing Forms
Marketers of engine oil must obtain a license from API to use the API Engine Oil Quality Marks: the API Service Symbol "Donut" and Certification Mark "Starburst." The use of the API Marks is a marketer's warranty that its licensed oils comply with the requirements set forth in API 1509 and API's Application for Licensure. The license application requires the applicant to certify that its oils meet Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System (EOLCS) requirements.
You can download API's Application for Licensure using the links below. Please review the application instructions before completing any of the application. New applicants must complete Parts A through D (Part E is optional). The Amended License Agreement is needed only when making additions to an already established license. All forms are available in writable Adobe PDF format.
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Some interesting excerpts from the License agreement documentation:
Quote:
8. The Licensee’s authorization to use the mark(s) will terminate each year on the
anniversary date of this Agreement. However, the authorization to use the mark(s)
will be automatically renewed each successive year on this date for an additional
twelve-month period under the same terms and conditions, except as modified by
API, provided that: the Licensee has submitted the necessary annual volume of sales
data and pays the annual royalty due to API within the specified time frame; has
complied with all terms and conditions of the program; and has agreed to comply with
any additional terms or conditions specified by API.
Quote:
12. The Licensee agrees that it will use the marks only on products that meet all of
API's requirements and agrees to assume full and complete responsibility for the use of
the marks on its products. The Licensee shall establish and maintain a program of production, inspection and testing which is designed to ensure that the Licensee's
products comply with all API requirements.
Quote:
14. Licensee agrees that it will do all acts required of it by API to ensure that pertinent
API standards and specifications are being met at all times in the manufacture of the
products, including submitting when requested by API a statement of manufacturer's
qualifications and samples of the products and permitting API, or a representative
thereof, upon reasonable notice to inspect pertinent manufacturing facilities. Licensee
agrees that it has on file and will retain on file evidence that its products meet all
applicable API standards and performance requirements for such products. Licensee
agrees to submit this evidence to API in a timely manner upon request.
Further, Licensee agrees to submit the data requested in the Application for Licensure
for each licensed product. API agrees to restrict use of this data for the sole purpose
intended. Summary data, if collected and published, will not be company specific. API
shall be the sole judge of whether Licensee meets the appropriate qualifications to
become and remain a Licensee and whether the products meet the appropriate
qualifications.
Quote:
15. API or API's representative may make periodic examinations or tests of the
Licensee's product by selecting samples from the marketplace and submitting them to a
testing facility for evaluation to determine whether the products comply with specified
requirements. If requested by API, the Licensee shall send samples of the Licensee’s
product, at API’s expense, directly to a designated test facility for evaluation in the time
frame specified by API.
Quote:
19. Licensee agrees to notify API in a timely manner if it has evidence or information
which indicates that its product does not conform to API's requirements or the properties
specified in each Product Data Sheet and agrees to take action immediately in order to
bring the product into full compliance.
Quote:
20. If Licensee's products in the marketplace do not comply with API's requirements, or
the properties specified in the Product Data Sheet, Licensee agrees to take whatever
corrective action (including product recall) that is deemed necessary by API to protect
consumers or API in a time frame specified by API.
Quote:
21. If the Licensee defaults in any of its obligations under this Agreement, API may
immediately terminate or suspend, as to any covered products affected by such default,
the rights or authority conferred by this Agreement without prejudice to any other rights
which API may have. The Licensee agrees that API may notify vendors, governmental
authorities, potential users, and others of an improper or unauthorized use of the mark
when in the judgement of API such notifications are necessary to protect consumers or
for API's own protection.
Quote:
22. The Licensee agrees that the manufacture, sale, delivery, shipment, distribution or
promotion of any product utilizing the marks would mislead the public if such product
does not comply with the requirements of API as herein provided and agrees that any
breach of this contract in this respect could not adequately be compensated for in
money damages. For these and other reasons, the Licensee agrees that, in the event of
the violation of any of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, a temporary injunction
may be issued at the instance of API restraining the Licensee from further use of the
marks in any manner whatsoever, and from any further sale or offering for sale, delivery
or distribution of said products bearing the marks, and any other relief which may be
deemed appropriate. Such temporary injunction shall not, however, restrain the sale
and delivery of products already properly bearing the marks which have been previously
found to be covered products and to be in compliance with the requirements of API at
the time the mark was applied to the products. The granting or issuance of such
temporary injunction shall not affect the right of API to compensatory and punitive damages for the misuse of the marks or its name, abbreviations, or symbols, and shall
be in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other rights and remedies provided by this
Agreement.
Quote:
8. The Licensee’s authorization to use the mark(s) will terminate each year on the
anniversary date of this Agreement. However, the authorization to use the mark(s)
will be automatically renewed each successive year on this date for an additional
twelve-month period under the same terms and conditions, except as modified by
API, provided that: the Licensee has submitted the necessary annual volume of sales
data and pays the annual royalty due to API within the specified time frame; has
complied with all terms and conditions of the program; and has agreed to comply with
any additional terms or conditions specified by API.
Quote:
12. The Licensee agrees that it will use the marks only on products that meet all of
API's requirements and agrees to assume full and complete responsibility for the use of
the marks on its products. The Licensee shall establish and maintain a program of production, inspection and testing which is designed to ensure that the Licensee's
products comply with all API requirements.
Quote:
14. Licensee agrees that it will do all acts required of it by API to ensure that pertinent
API standards and specifications are being met at all times in the manufacture of the
products, including submitting when requested by API a statement of manufacturer's
qualifications and samples of the products and permitting API, or a representative
thereof, upon reasonable notice to inspect pertinent manufacturing facilities. Licensee
agrees that it has on file and will retain on file evidence that its products meet all
applicable API standards and performance requirements for such products. Licensee
agrees to submit this evidence to API in a timely manner upon request.
Further, Licensee agrees to submit the data requested in the Application for Licensure
for each licensed product. API agrees to restrict use of this data for the sole purpose
intended. Summary data, if collected and published, will not be company specific. API
shall be the sole judge of whether Licensee meets the appropriate qualifications to
become and remain a Licensee and whether the products meet the appropriate
qualifications.
Quote:
15. API or API's representative may make periodic examinations or tests of the
Licensee's product by selecting samples from the marketplace and submitting them to a
testing facility for evaluation to determine whether the products comply with specified
requirements. If requested by API, the Licensee shall send samples of the Licensee’s
product, at API’s expense, directly to a designated test facility for evaluation in the time
frame specified by API.
Quote:
19. Licensee agrees to notify API in a timely manner if it has evidence or information
which indicates that its product does not conform to API's requirements or the properties
specified in each Product Data Sheet and agrees to take action immediately in order to
bring the product into full compliance.
Quote:
20. If Licensee's products in the marketplace do not comply with API's requirements, or
the properties specified in the Product Data Sheet, Licensee agrees to take whatever
corrective action (including product recall) that is deemed necessary by API to protect
consumers or API in a time frame specified by API.
Quote:
21. If the Licensee defaults in any of its obligations under this Agreement, API may
immediately terminate or suspend, as to any covered products affected by such default,
the rights or authority conferred by this Agreement without prejudice to any other rights
which API may have. The Licensee agrees that API may notify vendors, governmental
authorities, potential users, and others of an improper or unauthorized use of the mark
when in the judgement of API such notifications are necessary to protect consumers or
for API's own protection.
Quote:
22. The Licensee agrees that the manufacture, sale, delivery, shipment, distribution or
promotion of any product utilizing the marks would mislead the public if such product
does not comply with the requirements of API as herein provided and agrees that any
breach of this contract in this respect could not adequately be compensated for in
money damages. For these and other reasons, the Licensee agrees that, in the event of
the violation of any of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, a temporary injunction
may be issued at the instance of API restraining the Licensee from further use of the
marks in any manner whatsoever, and from any further sale or offering for sale, delivery
or distribution of said products bearing the marks, and any other relief which may be
deemed appropriate. Such temporary injunction shall not, however, restrain the sale
and delivery of products already properly bearing the marks which have been previously
found to be covered products and to be in compliance with the requirements of API at
the time the mark was applied to the products. The granting or issuance of such
temporary injunction shall not affect the right of API to compensatory and punitive damages for the misuse of the marks or its name, abbreviations, or symbols, and shall
be in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other rights and remedies provided by this
Agreement.
I guess it is going over my head. I still can not find any indication that M1 5W-30 was tested for and passed the IVA wear test.
The 5W-30 EP SL, 10W-30 EP SL, and 0W-40 SL are no longer listed on the Mobile web site. I didn't look for any of the diesel engine oils.
What I am trying to find is proof positive that the M1 5W-30 was tested and passed the IVA wear test since Ashland's claim, so I can, well, lets just say EXPLAIN it to someone.
The 5W-30 EP SL, 10W-30 EP SL, and 0W-40 SL are no longer listed on the Mobile web site. I didn't look for any of the diesel engine oils.
What I am trying to find is proof positive that the M1 5W-30 was tested and passed the IVA wear test since Ashland's claim, so I can, well, lets just say EXPLAIN it to someone.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
From that documentation, what I'm getting is that Exxon-Mobil has to provide proof that the product meets all the requirements of SM/CF in order to be classified as such. And that every time the license is renewed, they must provide that proof of testing.
They are still testing the TDT for CI-4 as well, so.....
FWIW, we were still getting M1 5w50 up here for quite a while after Exxon pulled it from their website.
They are still testing the TDT for CI-4 as well, so.....
FWIW, we were still getting M1 5w50 up here for quite a while after Exxon pulled it from their website.
Maybe that is where the confusion is. I got it in my mind the license would not be renewed until March 2009 and what they were granted was a continuation until march 2009. Seems like it would be unusual to retest in December then retest again in March.
I fear I may be looking for something I am not going to find, especially because of the time interval.
I fear I may be looking for something I am not going to find, especially because of the time interval.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I see that the "renewal term" is one year. But the products appear to have to be "renewed" every "X" number of months. My take on this is that testing data proving the oil's compliance must be submitted to the API in order for the renewal to be granted and that information shown on the API's website.
I could be wrong however, since I cannot find a document that actually spells it out in such terms.
I could be wrong however, since I cannot find a document that actually spells it out in such terms.
That is the problem that I have. I cannot find documents that come right out and state something. I went to the API web and they want credit card payments to download some of their documents. I want to know but not strongly enough to pay.
I certainly hope your take on this is all correct.
I certainly hope your take on this is all correct.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Well, we've got one fact here:
Exxon-Mobil's 5w30 is still API certified. And that certification was renewed on December 5th, 2008.
What that does for Valvoline's claim... well........
Exxon-Mobil's 5w30 is still API certified. And that certification was renewed on December 5th, 2008.
What that does for Valvoline's claim... well........
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Well, we've got one fact here:
Exxon-Mobil's 5w30 is still API certified. And that certification was renewed on December 5th, 2008.
What that does for Valvoline's claim... well........
Yes. Certification cannot be doubted, and, "THAT CERTIFICTION WAS NOT REMOVED IN DECEMBER WHEN THERE WAS A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO."
Well, we've got one fact here:
Exxon-Mobil's 5w30 is still API certified. And that certification was renewed on December 5th, 2008.
What that does for Valvoline's claim... well........
Yes. Certification cannot be doubted, and, "THAT CERTIFICTION WAS NOT REMOVED IN DECEMBER WHEN THERE WAS A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO."
Para 3.5 states:
A license may be renewed annually by mutual agreement of the parties, provided the licensee reports the
volume of licensed product sold the previous year, pays the annual fee, and agrees to comply with any
amendments to the license agreement and any modifications or additional specifications of the license
requirements.
Oils only need to be retested if there is a formulation change, or a change in materials/suppliers etc.
It's very odd that Mobil 1 has a Dec 5th 2008 - Mar 2009 time frame for the license. Only 3 months? Hmmm
A license may be renewed annually by mutual agreement of the parties, provided the licensee reports the
volume of licensed product sold the previous year, pays the annual fee, and agrees to comply with any
amendments to the license agreement and any modifications or additional specifications of the license
requirements.
Oils only need to be retested if there is a formulation change, or a change in materials/suppliers etc.
It's very odd that Mobil 1 has a Dec 5th 2008 - Mar 2009 time frame for the license. Only 3 months? Hmmm
Originally Posted By: buster
Para 3.5 states:
Oils only need to be retested if there is a formulation change, or a change in materials/suppliers etc.
So EM, or any oil company certified by API, reports volume sales, states that they have not changed suppliers or formulations since tested for certification, that they will change if API specks change, pays the fee, and no actual testing takes place for licenses renewal extension?
Originally Posted By: buster
Para
It's very odd that Mobil 1 has a Dec 5th 2008 - Mar 2009 time frame for the license. Only 3 months? Hmmm
I got an e-mail form Mobil1 taking me to a link that let me print out a $10.00 rebate coupon on 5 quarts of M1. However, the coupon didn't become valid until April 2009. It appears that M1 expects their supply to be back up by April. That makes me very curious of the 3 month extension. Something must be in the process of changing at M1 and they require 3 months for completion.
Para 3.5 states:
Oils only need to be retested if there is a formulation change, or a change in materials/suppliers etc.
So EM, or any oil company certified by API, reports volume sales, states that they have not changed suppliers or formulations since tested for certification, that they will change if API specks change, pays the fee, and no actual testing takes place for licenses renewal extension?
Originally Posted By: buster
Para
It's very odd that Mobil 1 has a Dec 5th 2008 - Mar 2009 time frame for the license. Only 3 months? Hmmm
I got an e-mail form Mobil1 taking me to a link that let me print out a $10.00 rebate coupon on 5 quarts of M1. However, the coupon didn't become valid until April 2009. It appears that M1 expects their supply to be back up by April. That makes me very curious of the 3 month extension. Something must be in the process of changing at M1 and they require 3 months for completion.
Let's see:
No absolute requirement for testing to renew,
The API 'works with' marketers that have a problem (as opposed to just jerking a license),
XOM is one of API's biggest 'customers,'
An annual renewal that in this case only lasts for 3 months,
...this math ain't tough, boys and girls.
No absolute requirement for testing to renew,
The API 'works with' marketers that have a problem (as opposed to just jerking a license),
XOM is one of API's biggest 'customers,'
An annual renewal that in this case only lasts for 3 months,
...this math ain't tough, boys and girls.
- Status
