WSS-M3C96x-A1 Requirements

[CarbonSteel]

I bought the Ford WSS-M2C960-A1 specification which includes:

WSS-M2C960-A1 (5W-20)
WSS-M2C961-A1 (5W-30)
WSS-M2C962-A1 (0W-20)
WSS-M2C963-A1 (0W-30)

Requirements:

- Needs to meet ILSAC GF-6A
- Production must have an API license in the country where the product is manufactured or sold
- Engine tests must be performed under current approve ASTM standards and the named ones are:
--- D6557 (Ball Rust)
--- D8111 (Sequence IIIH)
--- D8350 (Sequence IVB)
--- D8256 (Sequence VH)
--- D8114 (Sequence VIE)
--- D6709 (Sequence VIII)
--- D6335 (TEOST 33C) - Not Required for 0W-20
--- D8291 (Sequence IX)
--- D8279 (Sequence X)

Given the above, I want to ask if most oils that meet API SP and IL-SAC GF-6A meet the WSS requirements--despite not having the WSS specification on the label (and totally get the approved part, but that is not relevant to my question)?

I did not see anything "special" in the requirements portion of the WSS spec sheet, but am curious.

 

[KCJeep]

Very timely post Ive been wondering about the 961-A1 spec’d for my Mustang. I know it must be easy to meet, because even some blends carry it. Yet Pennzoil Ultra and Platinum don’t, even though basic Pennzoil Full Synthetic and the Quaker State oils do.

Is there a minimum viscosity listed above? Ultra is very thin for grade so viscosity is all I can think of.

 

[Alien]

Very timely post Ive been wondering about the 961-A1 spec’d for my Mustang. I know it must be easy to meet, because even some blends carry it. Yet Pennzoil Ultra and Platinum don’t, even though basic Pennzoil Full Synthetic and the Quaker State oils do.

Is there a minimum viscosity listed above? Ultra is very thin for grade so viscosity is all I can think of.

WSS-M2C963-A1 (0W-30) appears to be very hard to meet. M1 AFE 0W30 is the only oil available in the US that claims to, but it took Mobil a few years after Ford first recommended it for low temperature environments. Given the size of the market, that is amazing.

Here are Ravenol comments of what in 2016 the Ford specs required above and beyond ACEA A5/B5 specifications:

• TBN > 10 (in contrast, the A5/B5 spec requires only TBN >8)

• Ford-specific chain wear test

• Daimler oxidation test in accordance with DIN 51453

• ROBO Test in accordance with ASTM D 7528 or Seq. IIIGA in accordance with ASTM D 7320

• Additional seal tests

“Oils which comply with Ford specifications are distinguished by an improved formulation and lower viscosity compared with the ACEA A5/ B5 specification, making it possible to reduce fuel consumption. Additional oxidation tests prescribed by Ford also prevent the oil from degrading too quickly due to added antioxidants, contributing to a longer engine service life.”

 

[CarbonSteel]

WSS-M2C963-A1 (0W-30) appears to be very hard to meet. M1 AFE 0W30 is the only oil available in the US that claims to, but it took Mobil a few years after Ford first recommended it for low temperature environments. Given the size of the market, that is amazing.

Here are Ravenol comments of what in 2016 the Ford specs required above and beyond ACEA A5/B5 specifications:

• TBN > 10 (in contrast, the A5/B5 spec requires only TBN >8)

• Ford-specific chain wear test

• Daimler oxidation test in accordance with DIN 51453

• ROBO Test in accordance with ASTM D 7528 or Seq. IIIGA in accordance with ASTM D 7320

• Additional seal tests

“Oils which comply with Ford specifications are distinguished by an improved formulation and lower viscosity compared with the ACEA A5/ B5 specification, making it possible to reduce fuel consumption. Additional oxidation tests prescribed by Ford also prevent the oil from degrading too quickly due to added antioxidants, contributing to a longer engine service life.”

Color me skeptical the 0W-30 is hard to meet if AFE is all that it takes to meet it. AFE is a watered down version of what it once was.

I run M1 ESP 0W-30 and based upon its approvals, it is much more robust than AFE.

Also, none of the Ravenol comments are present in the Ford Spec that I bought, only the ASTM tests, such as ASTM D8279 which is the chain wear % increase test (0.085 max).

 

[CarbonSteel]

Very timely post Ive been wondering about the 961-A1 spec’d for my Mustang. I know it must be easy to meet, because even some blends carry it. Yet Pennzoil Ultra and Platinum don’t, even though basic Pennzoil Full Synthetic and the Quaker State oils do.

Is there a minimum viscosity listed above? Ultra is very thin for grade so viscosity is all I can think of.

The spec lists:

Kinematic Viscosity at 100 °C, mm2/s (ASTM D445):

0W-20 | 5W-20 = 6.9 - <9.3
0W-30 | 5W-30 = 9.3 - <12.5

Nothing special...just the normal expected ranges.

There is also no requirement for TBN (neither min or max) in the spec either, only that it is to be reported.

 

[Alien]

Color me skeptical the 0W-30 is hard to meet if AFE is all that it takes to meet it. AFE is a watered down version of what it once was.

I run M1 ESP 0W-30 and based upon its approvals, it is much more robust than AFE.

But M1 ESP 0W-30 doesn't claim to meet any Ford specifications (other than being SP), which is the topic of this thread.

 

[CarbonSteel]

But M1 ESP 0W-30 doesn't claim to meet any Ford specifications (other than being SP), which is the topic of this thread.

I never said it did, I just know that based upon the approvals it carries, that it is more robust than AFE. Ergo, if M1 AFE 0W-30 meets the WSS specification, then ESP will by default AND that it does not take much to meet the WSS spec if AFE meets it.

 

[Alien]

Also you have to think: if meeting WSS-M2C963-A1 is so easy, why wouldn't every 0W-30 oil claim to meet it, thereby vastly increasing the size of their market in the US? And why did it take Mobil years to claim it after Ford specified it in their User's Manuals?

 

[bjboertje]

Just because one oil is "more robust" doesn't mean it will automatically meet a spec that an "inferior" oil carries.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Also you have to think: if meeting WSS-M2C963-A1 is so easy, why wouldn't every 0W-30 oil claim to meet it, thereby vastly increasing the size of their market in the US? And why did it take Mobil years to claim it after Ford specified it in their User's Manuals?

I think it is easy to meet based upon the requirements listed in the spec. Gaining the approval has more to do with money versus an oil actually being able to meet the approval.

I am not surprised it took that long for Mobil, it took as long or longer for them to meet MS-6395 which is also nothing special.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Just because one oil is "more robust" doesn't mean it will automatically meet a spec that an "inferior" oil carries.

I am basing my thoughts on the approvals that ESP has versus those that AFE does.

 

[Alien]

Given the above, I want to ask if most oils that meet API SP and IL-SAC GF-6A meet the WSS requirements--despite not having the WSS specification on the label ?

No. The evidence is against it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

No. The evidence is against it.

Which is?

 

[Alien]

Which is?

I already gave it. Look, it is really very simple. If you choose M1 ESP 0W30, you are choosing to use an oil that neither Ford nor Mobil recommend for your application. If that bothers you, use M1 AFE 0W30. If not, choose whatever you like.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I already gave it. Look, it is really very simple. If you choose M1 ESP 0W30, you are choosing to use an oil that neither Ford nor Mobil recommend for your application. If that bothers you, use M1 AFE 0W30. If not, choose whatever you like.

I saw no evidence, just opinion. Thanks for contributing though. My oil choice has nothing to do with the original question in the post.

I have the spec, purchased from Ford and there is nothing in it that would suggest that any API SP and ILSAC GF-6A oil would not meet the requirements.

 

[CarbonSteel]

@OVERKILL + @kschachn - any thoughts on this?

 

[Alien]

I saw no evidence, just opinion. Thanks for contributing though. My oil choice has nothing to do with the original question in the post.

I have the spec, purchased from Ford and there is nothing in it that would suggest that any API SP and ILSAC GF-6A oil would not meet the requirements.

Your welcome.

 

[4WD]

Along came a spider - sat down beside her -
and frightened WSS Ford away

 

[CarbonSteel]

Along came a spider - sat down beside her -
and frightened WSS Ford away

View attachment 203987

Likely sat down beside MS-6395 too

 

[4WD]

Likely sat down beside MS-6395 too

I have always used Dexos in the Jeep - but would use ESP any day … have an ESP jug on deck for the Lexus …