Under valve cover & sump pictures - 2014 Dodge Durango 174,000 miles total, 34,000 miles on HPL HDEO 5w-20

[fantastic]

These are mainly highway miles right? (like 75H/25City) This oil appears to be the Toyota or energizer bunny of oils.

 

[wwillson]

These are mainly highway miles right? (like 75H/25City)

Yes, that's about right

 

[wwillson]

Wayne. I just want to say thank you for all the effort and detail on this project. To go this distance on an engine without any meaningful consumption is one of the hardest things for the oil to pull off as you never have a chance to sweeten the oil in the sump. Your results are great and demonstrates what we strive to produce for results. I don’t have the personal patience myself to perform such a detailed project. Well done!

David

@High Performance Lubricants it sure has been informative! I never thought I would run an oil for 34k miles in a small sump passenger vehicle. Take a look at my past oil change history before HPL. I thought an engine would blow up if the OCI was longer than about 8k miles. Thank you for making great lubricants and even making custom engine oils for our members! We are very glad you are here.

 

[wwillson]

After some discussions with @dnewton3 I have decided that I will continue to run this oil. The ultimate question is, how far can this oil be run before it reaches an ultimate condemnation and what will that condemnation point be? Some possible condemnation points could be:

1. Varnish deposits
2. High viscosity from oxidative thickening
3. Low TBN
4. Rapidly increasing wear metals

I will take mileage interval pictures of the valve train to check for deposits and send in another oil sample to be tested.

I should have added agglomerated particles loading the oil filter to the list.

I changed the filter today and found the filter was beginning to load with sludge precursors. The filter needs to drain before I can get a good picture and will post it in a couple days.

The oil has been changed.

[edit]
This picture gives you a good idea of the agglomerated material caught in the last 5k miles. This was a Fram Ultra in service from 168k-173.3k miles. This Ultra did not have the separated crimp as we've seen in the past.

 

[wpod]

I should have added agglomerated particles loading the oil filter to the list.

I changed the filter today and found the filter was beginning to load with sludge precursors. The filter needs to drain before I can get a good picture and will post it in a couple days.

The oil has been changed.

Go to the dark side and add a bypass filter

 

[Mewbs]

Makes me wonder, how far can their regular PCMO can go if their heavy duty oil can go this far. Going 34k miles takes some real balls of steel. I've grown up with family mechanics seeing sludge and varnish in engine tear downs at a young age that made me hard stuck to 3-5K oil change habits. My driving situation has changed for the past few years that I now drive 100 miles a day throughout the week and finally there's an oil that is independently validated here to run clean and clean as you go in these extreme oil service life intervals. Safe to say that oil run has probably paid for itself several times now. Are you still going to continue running 30K mile oil drains?

 

[fantastic]

Great run! No sense running or clogging up the filters from this point on. Is this the first time you've noticed a filter getting "loaded" on this oil run?

 

[4WD]

Go to the dark side and add a bypass filter

That would take over $500 for the Baxter kit …
You might say Wayne got his money’s worth already …

 

[wwillson]

Go to the dark side and add a bypass filter

Nope, not doing it.

 

[wwillson]

See my edit in the UOA post:

Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 33,300 miles on oil - 173,000 miles total

This sample was pulled from my 2014 Dodge Durango with a total of 173,000 miles and 33,300 miles on the oil. I estimate the run time is 835 hours(33,300 miles/40 MPH). The oil is HPL's 5w-20 CK-4 based formula and has been run since Feb 9, 2022, about 23 months. The lab is Wearcheck. The usage...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[wwillson]

Going 34k miles takes some real balls of steel.

Nope, I just followed the data.

My driving situation has changed for the past few years that I now drive 100 miles a day throughout the week and finally there's an oil that is independently validated here to run clean and clean as you go in these extreme oil service life intervals.

Driving that many miles per day, you are primed to do extended OCIs. How about joining the club?

Are you still going to continue running 30K mile oil drains?

Yes, however long the data supports.

 

[wwillson]

Is this the first time you've noticed a filter getting "loaded" on this oil run?

Yes and I've changed the filter every 5k, except the previous change which was 9k. This filter ran for 5k.

 

[spasm3]

Yes and I've changed the filter every 5k, except the previous change which was 9k. This filter ran for 5k.

Since the filter is fairly loaded at 33k, would you say the limit on the oil should be 30k ?

 

[joekingcorvette]

Looking great! The oil says ya got time to lean ya got time to clean hahaha!

 

[wwillson]

Since the filter is fairly loaded at 33k, would you say the limit on the oil should be 30k ?

For my vehicle and my use 30k would be a good target, but for your vehicle and your use, I can't say.

 

[jtay2024]

For my vehicle and my use 30k would be a good target, but for your vehicle and your use, I can't say.

Even with a 25% buffer that'd give you a good useable range of 25k miles easily. Fantastic oil by the look of it!

 

[doublebase]

I’ve got to say…I’m 5,000 miles in on a Amsoil Signature Series run…and you’re motivating me to push the oil to distances I’ve never considered before. And I hate you for that. As an ASE tech, you’re ruining my reputation. People at work are beginning to talk…I’ll just direct them here.

One day I’ll try the HPL, that’s for sure.

 

[4WD]

I’ve got to say…I’m 5,000 miles in on a Amsoil Signature Series run…and you’re motivating me to push the oil to distances I’ve never considered before. And I hate you for that. As an ASE tech, you’re ruining my reputation. People at work are beginning to talk…I’ll just direct them here.

One day I’ll try the HPL, that’s for sure.

What’s the old and new numbers ?

 

[supton]

Not for me, Critic’s concerns summarize mine, what with the fleet I have. That said, impressive otherwise.

I’m assuming you sliced prior filters? and this was a big jump in loading?

What’s your take on cold weather vs hot weather operating, given what might be 30k OCI’s going forward. I realize this has a heat exchanger on the oil, so oil temperature is pretty well controlled year round—once warmed up—but increasingly cold starts in winter are different than so-so starts in summer. I’m guessing you’d know, if you continue with 5k filter changes, slicing open, and letting that be a guide to things.

Call me crazy, but at end of life for this engine I’d be more curious about chain guide wear and chain wear (aka “stretching”) than bearing wear and/or crosshatch wear. Ok bearings can wear regardless but it’s not high on my list of FUD right now. There’s no small amount of handwringing over timing chain lifespan.

 

[ARB1977]

Considering how many oil burning Toyota engines I have seen with stuck rings and scored walls, but perfectly clean valvetrains, I personally find valvetrain photos to be of limited value. This isn't a knock on anyone, but rather, I don't think the valvetrain photos tell us very much.

I know tell me about it. This photo is nasty. 131K, no oil burning Tacoma 4.0L. 5500-6500 oci with M1 and mostly Amsoil XL. A few runs with SS 0W30 10K oci.