I put a Delco battery in my car, since I can get it for $5 over cost, working for a car dealer has its benefits.
The Best Automotive Battery Is...
- Thread starter Warstud
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The EverStart Maxx I got at Walmart was made by Exide (on the sticker). I think some might also be made by Johnson Controls ... might depend on the battery group size.
If it's got the octagonal vents, it's made by Johnson Controls. Wal-Mart is phasing out the Exide batteries, but there are still some left on the shelf.
Is there any evidence that the Exide or Johnson Controls made EverStart Maxx is better than the other?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The EverStart Maxx I got at Walmart was made by Exide (on the sticker). I think some might also be made by Johnson Controls ... might depend on the battery group size.
If it's got the octagonal vents, it's made by Johnson Controls. Wal-Mart is phasing out the Exide batteries, but there are still some left on the shelf.
Is there any evidence that the Exide or Johnson Controls made EverStart Maxx is better than the other?
Google the following terms:
Sears
Exide
lawsuit
make your own decision.
Sears
Exide
lawsuit
make your own decision.
27F is available at Advance in their Silver line if you have one in your area... it is the Johnson Controls battery...
If you go to this link, you'll read some interesting stuff about JCI and the 27F they manufacture (at least what I was told at the time):
Question of the Day - Best Car and Light Truck batteries.
If you go to this link, you'll read some interesting stuff about JCI and the 27F they manufacture (at least what I was told at the time):
Question of the Day - Best Car and Light Truck batteries.
I know that Delphi sold the Delco Battery line to Johnson Controls, in 2005 I think, but the Deka Ultimate looks exactly like the old Delco; except for lack of the Delco "Eye" and a black case instead of white.
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0259.pdf
I don't know of any JCI batteries that resemble the old Delco battery design.
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0259.pdf
I don't know of any JCI batteries that resemble the old Delco battery design.
Hello, I noticed your conversation regarding our batteries and wanted to offer some assistance. brianl703 is correct that extreme temperatures (both hot and cold) can be hard on batteries and CharlieJ's map also speaks to that, but many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now are just deeply-discharged. Many battery chargers will not recognize or charge any battery that has been deeply-discharged below a certain threshold. This is not unique to Optima, in fact, some manufacturers will void the warranties on batteries deemed to be “overdischarged.” We decided a better alternative was to create a YouTube video and explain to folks how to recharge these batteries through this parallel charging technique.
Optima was acquired by Johnson Controls in 2000 and the quality of our batteries has continued to improve under their ownership. We do not outsource our production to third-party manufacturers or modify the specifications of our batteries for any of our retail partners. We still use 99.99% pure lead in all of our batteries and they are assembled in our own state-of-the-art facility in Monterrey, Mexico. While the quality of the batteries produced in our Colorado facility was excellent, the degree of automation in our current production process has resulted in even more consistency and reliability. More importantly, we still stand by the same quality standards that were in place in Colorado.
There have been significant changes in vehicles in the last ten years, with technologies like OnStar, satellite navigation, satellite radio, and TVs becoming commonplace in many modern vehicles. The electrical demands these devices place on new vehicles now places tremendous strains on some charging systems and batteries. Even Corvette engineers concede their new vehicles can discharge a battery in anywhere from one to four weeks
The key to long battery life, regardless of brand, is making sure your battery voltage never drops below 12.4 volts. When batteries are discharged below that level, sulfation begins to impact both performance and longevity. That makes a quality battery tender or maintainer an excellent investment for any vehicle that is not driven daily. If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
Optima was acquired by Johnson Controls in 2000 and the quality of our batteries has continued to improve under their ownership. We do not outsource our production to third-party manufacturers or modify the specifications of our batteries for any of our retail partners. We still use 99.99% pure lead in all of our batteries and they are assembled in our own state-of-the-art facility in Monterrey, Mexico. While the quality of the batteries produced in our Colorado facility was excellent, the degree of automation in our current production process has resulted in even more consistency and reliability. More importantly, we still stand by the same quality standards that were in place in Colorado.
There have been significant changes in vehicles in the last ten years, with technologies like OnStar, satellite navigation, satellite radio, and TVs becoming commonplace in many modern vehicles. The electrical demands these devices place on new vehicles now places tremendous strains on some charging systems and batteries. Even Corvette engineers concede their new vehicles can discharge a battery in anywhere from one to four weeks
The key to long battery life, regardless of brand, is making sure your battery voltage never drops below 12.4 volts. When batteries are discharged below that level, sulfation begins to impact both performance and longevity. That makes a quality battery tender or maintainer an excellent investment for any vehicle that is not driven daily. If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
Hi mareakin, we do advertise that our batteries can last up to twice as long as conventional flooded batteries and offer up to 15 times the vibration resistance. The sealed design also minimizes the chance of acid leaking and damaging the surrounding area, so there are definite benefits to AGM designs. We also offer a three-year, free replacement warranty, with no pro-rated costs.
Ultimately, the decision as to whether AGM batteries are worth the extra cost is a personal one. Whatever decision you make, you should definitely make sure regular battery maintenance is part of the equation. Proper battery maintenance will definitely extend battery life, regardless of brand. If you have any other questions about our batteries, please don't hesitate to ask.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
Ultimately, the decision as to whether AGM batteries are worth the extra cost is a personal one. Whatever decision you make, you should definitely make sure regular battery maintenance is part of the equation. Proper battery maintenance will definitely extend battery life, regardless of brand. If you have any other questions about our batteries, please don't hesitate to ask.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
Originally Posted By: CDX825
The reason Optima batteries went downhill is because they were bought by Johnson Controls.
Johnson Controls shut down the US plant and they started making the batteries in Mexico using cheaper lead.
They should have the Chinese make them ...we all know there good at putting lead in everything.
The reason Optima batteries went downhill is because they were bought by Johnson Controls.
Johnson Controls shut down the US plant and they started making the batteries in Mexico using cheaper lead.
They should have the Chinese make them ...we all know there good at putting lead in everything.
I haven't read through the entire thread so I don't know what others have said. Hopefully I am not opening a can of worms here with a brand people hate so they freak out the way so many seem to with RP when I post?
I haven't had to buy a battery for a long time as I change new vehicles so often. However, I occassionally have to buy a battery for my boat. I have gone through a lot of them from various mfg's. I currently have a Duralast from AutoZone in the boat and it has been great. It is going on 4 years now( longest I got previous was 3 from a DieHard ). If the time comes and I need one for my vehicle I will try a Duralast based on how good the marine battery has been.
I know Optima batteries are considered to be about the best you can get for a vehicle but they are very $$$. Marine batteries are also extremely $$$ but the Duralast was very reasonable. I am very happy with it so as said if I need one for the truck I will try one.
I haven't had to buy a battery for a long time as I change new vehicles so often. However, I occassionally have to buy a battery for my boat. I have gone through a lot of them from various mfg's. I currently have a Duralast from AutoZone in the boat and it has been great. It is going on 4 years now( longest I got previous was 3 from a DieHard ). If the time comes and I need one for my vehicle I will try a Duralast based on how good the marine battery has been.
I know Optima batteries are considered to be about the best you can get for a vehicle but they are very $$$. Marine batteries are also extremely $$$ but the Duralast was very reasonable. I am very happy with it so as said if I need one for the truck I will try one.
I think it's the luck if the draw---I've had Auto Zone batteries fail in one year, and last 5. I've got an Advance Auto Parts battery in the Frontier--its about 5 years old. My brother had to replace a less-than-year-old Advance battery in his Stratus in July.
Just replaced my 6 years 11 months old OEM Panasonic battery in my S2000 yesterday while I had the car at my mechanic to replace differential and manual transmission fluids. The OEM battery was getting weak the last few months, it was only 12.2-12.3 Volts with engine not running and the car started with difficulty. The new battery is Interstate group 51, my mechanic charged only $65 with 3 years free replacement warranty. A battery, OEM or replacement, that lasted more than 6 years is very good, specially the tiny group size 51.
My need for the next battery will be a large one in group size 49 for MB E430. The OEM was replaced 5 years 10 month ago with MB battery from dealer. Just check the price from my dealer, it was $149 6 years ago and it is $189 now. I may just go with Walmart Everstart Maxx for $77 with 3 years warranty. If it lasts only 3 years and 1 month so that 2 batteries for 6 years and 2 months still cheaper than 1 MB battery.
My need for the next battery will be a large one in group size 49 for MB E430. The OEM was replaced 5 years 10 month ago with MB battery from dealer. Just check the price from my dealer, it was $149 6 years ago and it is $189 now. I may just go with Walmart Everstart Maxx for $77 with 3 years warranty. If it lasts only 3 years and 1 month so that 2 batteries for 6 years and 2 months still cheaper than 1 MB battery.
Originally Posted By: OptimaJim
Hi mareakin, we do advertise that our batteries can last up to twice as long as conventional flooded batteries and offer up to 15 times the vibration resistance. The sealed design also minimizes the chance of acid leaking and damaging the surrounding area, so there are definite benefits to AGM designs. We also offer a three-year, free replacement warranty, with no pro-rated costs.
Ultimately, the decision as to whether AGM batteries are worth the extra cost is a personal one. Whatever decision you make, you should definitely make sure regular battery maintenance is part of the equation. Proper battery maintenance will definitely extend battery life, regardless of brand. If you have any other questions about our batteries, please don't hesitate to ask.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
How well do they work for a car that does sit a bit(like a few days at a time, up to a week), I've condidered one of these for that very reason.
Hi mareakin, we do advertise that our batteries can last up to twice as long as conventional flooded batteries and offer up to 15 times the vibration resistance. The sealed design also minimizes the chance of acid leaking and damaging the surrounding area, so there are definite benefits to AGM designs. We also offer a three-year, free replacement warranty, with no pro-rated costs.
Ultimately, the decision as to whether AGM batteries are worth the extra cost is a personal one. Whatever decision you make, you should definitely make sure regular battery maintenance is part of the equation. Proper battery maintenance will definitely extend battery life, regardless of brand. If you have any other questions about our batteries, please don't hesitate to ask.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
How well do they work for a car that does sit a bit(like a few days at a time, up to a week), I've condidered one of these for that very reason.
I've pretty much found that, as long as you buy a Johnson Controls mfg'd battery, you're good to go. Then again, I worked at an Interstate Battery store in college so I might be brainwashed.
Most people coming in to get new batteries had Delphi batteries that had failed due to heat, broken straps, or dead cells.
Most people coming in to get new batteries had Delphi batteries that had failed due to heat, broken straps, or dead cells.
OptimaJim:
As you can see from my sig line, we have both a Camry hybrid and a a Prius in the family. Both have "undersized" 12V batteries located in the rear of the vehicle (accessible from cargo area for Prius, and from trunk in the Camry). Both are special sealed units that are, surprise surprise, pretty pricey from Toyota. The concern, of course, is that they MUST NOT vent hydrogen into the interior of the car (for pretty obvious reasons). I've been looking ahead to replacement and am wondering of an Optima or an Odyssey would be a suitable alternative to the expensive Toyota replacement. Your thoughts?
As you can see from my sig line, we have both a Camry hybrid and a a Prius in the family. Both have "undersized" 12V batteries located in the rear of the vehicle (accessible from cargo area for Prius, and from trunk in the Camry). Both are special sealed units that are, surprise surprise, pretty pricey from Toyota. The concern, of course, is that they MUST NOT vent hydrogen into the interior of the car (for pretty obvious reasons). I've been looking ahead to replacement and am wondering of an Optima or an Odyssey would be a suitable alternative to the expensive Toyota replacement. Your thoughts?
Hi dave87rs, OPTIMA batteries actually have a lower self-discharge rate than traditional, flooded batteries, so they can hold a charge when not in use longer than flooded batteries. However, it's always good practice to either use a battery maintainer or disconnect your battery if you know a vehicle is going to sit idle for an extended period of time. When batteries are discharged below 12.4 volts and allowed to sit in that state for an extended period of time, sulfation begins to diminish both performance and longevity.
Ekpolk, even though our batteries have a “sealed” design, all lead-acid batteries can vent gas. Under normal operating conditions, an AGM battery will not vent gas. Since alternators or chargers can fail, the safest and correct mounting method for trunks and passenger compartments is to make sure that any possible gas venting will escape to the outside of the vehicle. All vehicles with original equipment battery locations in the trunks or passenger compartments will have a vent provision that should be used.
Our group 27, 51, 34C, and 31 batteries all have ports for connecting a vent hose. Although people do it anyway, we would never recommend installing an unvented battery in any enclosed space, because there's a legitimate, albeit unlikely, safety risk involved.
For example, IF there is a voltage regulator failure, and IF the battery is severely overcharged, and IF this goes unnoticed, and IF the battery vents because the internal pressure exceeds the release pressure of the vents, the gasses are both flammable and toxic. This may sound like a lot of “ifs,” but attorneys and engineers get paid to plan for every worst-case scenario. If anyone has any other questions about our batteries, please don't hesitate to ask.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
Ekpolk, even though our batteries have a “sealed” design, all lead-acid batteries can vent gas. Under normal operating conditions, an AGM battery will not vent gas. Since alternators or chargers can fail, the safest and correct mounting method for trunks and passenger compartments is to make sure that any possible gas venting will escape to the outside of the vehicle. All vehicles with original equipment battery locations in the trunks or passenger compartments will have a vent provision that should be used.
Our group 27, 51, 34C, and 31 batteries all have ports for connecting a vent hose. Although people do it anyway, we would never recommend installing an unvented battery in any enclosed space, because there's a legitimate, albeit unlikely, safety risk involved.
For example, IF there is a voltage regulator failure, and IF the battery is severely overcharged, and IF this goes unnoticed, and IF the battery vents because the internal pressure exceeds the release pressure of the vents, the gasses are both flammable and toxic. This may sound like a lot of “ifs,” but attorneys and engineers get paid to plan for every worst-case scenario. If anyone has any other questions about our batteries, please don't hesitate to ask.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
90% of you think your 100 amp alternator always produces 100 amps whenever the car is running.
A hundred amp alternator can only produce 100 amps while it is still cold, and turning at ~ 9000 rpm, and if it has devices hungry enough to require 100 amps.
When it is hot, take off 25% Your now at 75 amps max.
At Idle speed it might be turning at 2000 rpm, remove another 40%, your at 35 amps. The engine is going to require between 7 and 15 amps to run the fuel pump, coil, engine and transmission computer, your down to ~20 amps.
Stereo on loud? 12 amps. Lights on? Your battery is now providing 3 amps. Blower motor on high, your battery is now providing 19 amps until you get those engine rpms up above 2000.
Everybody overestimates their alternators contribution, and the fact is, If you have your light on, and blower motor on high, and are sitting at a traffic light idling. You alternator likely cannot keep up and your battery is discharging. Do this often with short trips around town and your battery is never being fully charged. Frankly it is amazing that batteries can last as long as they do the way they are abused.
An alternator requires 1 engine HP to produce 25 amps. It is not free electricity.
The stereo memory, wireless door locks, computer memory are always draining the battery too. If your car sits for 6 weeks, the battery is likely at 50% charge or less. Combine this with the FACT that a flooded battery will self discharge at 12 to 15% a month at 75degrees. The battery might have enough charge to start the car, but unless you drive it for a couple hundred miles right after, or put it on a 120 volt regular battery charger, it is not gonna get fully charged, and whenever they are sitting at less than 80% charged, they are sulfating, and the longer they sit that way, the harder the sulfates get and the more capacity is lost.
Best thing you can do to make your battery last, is put it on a wall charger or maintenance charger once in a while. The highest quality battery made is still damaged by abuse, and abuse is considered leaving it in any state but above 80% charged.
Another fact, it will take almost twice as long to take a flooded battery from 80 to 100 percent as it will from 50 to 80%.
Keep this in mind when you think you bought a junk battery.
A hundred amp alternator can only produce 100 amps while it is still cold, and turning at ~ 9000 rpm, and if it has devices hungry enough to require 100 amps.
When it is hot, take off 25% Your now at 75 amps max.
At Idle speed it might be turning at 2000 rpm, remove another 40%, your at 35 amps. The engine is going to require between 7 and 15 amps to run the fuel pump, coil, engine and transmission computer, your down to ~20 amps.
Stereo on loud? 12 amps. Lights on? Your battery is now providing 3 amps. Blower motor on high, your battery is now providing 19 amps until you get those engine rpms up above 2000.
Everybody overestimates their alternators contribution, and the fact is, If you have your light on, and blower motor on high, and are sitting at a traffic light idling. You alternator likely cannot keep up and your battery is discharging. Do this often with short trips around town and your battery is never being fully charged. Frankly it is amazing that batteries can last as long as they do the way they are abused.
An alternator requires 1 engine HP to produce 25 amps. It is not free electricity.
The stereo memory, wireless door locks, computer memory are always draining the battery too. If your car sits for 6 weeks, the battery is likely at 50% charge or less. Combine this with the FACT that a flooded battery will self discharge at 12 to 15% a month at 75degrees. The battery might have enough charge to start the car, but unless you drive it for a couple hundred miles right after, or put it on a 120 volt regular battery charger, it is not gonna get fully charged, and whenever they are sitting at less than 80% charged, they are sulfating, and the longer they sit that way, the harder the sulfates get and the more capacity is lost.
Best thing you can do to make your battery last, is put it on a wall charger or maintenance charger once in a while. The highest quality battery made is still damaged by abuse, and abuse is considered leaving it in any state but above 80% charged.
Another fact, it will take almost twice as long to take a flooded battery from 80 to 100 percent as it will from 50 to 80%.
Keep this in mind when you think you bought a junk battery.
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Everybody overestimates their alternators contribution, and the fact is, If you have your light on, and blower motor on high, and are sitting at a traffic light idling. You alternator likely cannot keep up and your battery is discharging.
This really does depend on the car. I guarantee you that my Saab 93 has no problem keeping up with the electrical demands at idle; neither does just about any Ford with the 3G alternator that was specifically designed for high output at idle. The 130 amp Ford 3G alternator can output 80 amps at idle. IIRC, the 90 amp 3G alternator can output 50 amps at idle.
You may call me a liar, but I measured the output of my Saab 93's alternator at idle at 100 amps (with everything turned on). I used a clamp-on DC ammeter on the alternator output wire. The Saab 93 also increases the idle speed after several minutes if the alternator load is high.
Everybody overestimates their alternators contribution, and the fact is, If you have your light on, and blower motor on high, and are sitting at a traffic light idling. You alternator likely cannot keep up and your battery is discharging.
This really does depend on the car. I guarantee you that my Saab 93 has no problem keeping up with the electrical demands at idle; neither does just about any Ford with the 3G alternator that was specifically designed for high output at idle. The 130 amp Ford 3G alternator can output 80 amps at idle. IIRC, the 90 amp 3G alternator can output 50 amps at idle.
You may call me a liar, but I measured the output of my Saab 93's alternator at idle at 100 amps (with everything turned on). I used a clamp-on DC ammeter on the alternator output wire. The Saab 93 also increases the idle speed after several minutes if the alternator load is high.
I tried to edit my post to include the fact that my statement is vehicle dependent but missed the edit time window. Even the low rpm high output alternators are not outputting their full rating at engine idle speeds, and if lights, blower and everything else is on, it will not be recharging a weak battery as fast as everybody seems to think.
I am asking my alternator to charge 2 additional true Deep cycle batteries. I have a digital Ammeter which reads alternator amperage. I have seriously upgraded the charging circuit cabling, reduced the size of my alt pulley, and am still disappointed in the output when hot, at Idle, but am getting over 110 amps( 130 amp alternator) when cold at higher rpms with depleted batteries. But when Hot, at Idle, mine cannot do more than 32 amps.
Besides, batteries cannot accept high amps for very long, so while a 100 amp hour battery depleted to 50% might be able to accept 45 amps at first, within a half hour it would be lucky to be able to accept 20 amps, and would still take several hours of non idle speed driving to reach full charge.
AGM's can accept higher charging amps than flooded batteries.
I am asking my alternator to charge 2 additional true Deep cycle batteries. I have a digital Ammeter which reads alternator amperage. I have seriously upgraded the charging circuit cabling, reduced the size of my alt pulley, and am still disappointed in the output when hot, at Idle, but am getting over 110 amps( 130 amp alternator) when cold at higher rpms with depleted batteries. But when Hot, at Idle, mine cannot do more than 32 amps.
Besides, batteries cannot accept high amps for very long, so while a 100 amp hour battery depleted to 50% might be able to accept 45 amps at first, within a half hour it would be lucky to be able to accept 20 amps, and would still take several hours of non idle speed driving to reach full charge.
AGM's can accept higher charging amps than flooded batteries.
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
I have seriously upgraded the charging circuit cabling, reduced the size of my alt pulley, and am still disappointed in the output when hot, at Idle, but am getting over 110 amps( 130 amp alternator) when cold at higher rpms with depleted batteries. But when Hot, at Idle, mine cannot do more than 32 amps.
If you are using a rewound alternator, that may be why your idle output is so poor. In my experience, rewinding a Ford 2G 75-amp alternator to produce 130 amps results in an alternator that has poor idle output. I do believe it was (it's no longer installed) actually worse at idle than the original 75-amp 2G unit. I replaced that one with a Ford 3G 130-amp alternator--which is physically larger--and the idle output is greatly improved.
The 3G was specifically designed for high output at idle.
I have no doubt that rewinding other alternators for higher amperage will produce similarly poor results compared to an alternator that was designed to produce that amperage from the start.
I have seriously upgraded the charging circuit cabling, reduced the size of my alt pulley, and am still disappointed in the output when hot, at Idle, but am getting over 110 amps( 130 amp alternator) when cold at higher rpms with depleted batteries. But when Hot, at Idle, mine cannot do more than 32 amps.
If you are using a rewound alternator, that may be why your idle output is so poor. In my experience, rewinding a Ford 2G 75-amp alternator to produce 130 amps results in an alternator that has poor idle output. I do believe it was (it's no longer installed) actually worse at idle than the original 75-amp 2G unit. I replaced that one with a Ford 3G 130-amp alternator--which is physically larger--and the idle output is greatly improved.
The 3G was specifically designed for high output at idle.
I have no doubt that rewinding other alternators for higher amperage will produce similarly poor results compared to an alternator that was designed to produce that amperage from the start.
- Status
Similar threads
