Oh and disc seem to stop better on the rear when you're towing. I had a 2003 Durango that towed excellent. I like drums too and don't really care which system the mfg uses. There are advantages to both.
Rear drum brakes.
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I sometimes see rear drum brakes on American minivans or SUVs and I wonder what they were thinking.
Can't help but feel they cheaped out on brakes for a large family car.
Can't help but feel they cheaped out on brakes for a large family car.
Drums don't let me choose my friction compound. Forget that.
Originally Posted By: stchman
What is the consensus of BITOG folks about rear drum brakes?
I have never owned a vehicle with rear disc brakes so I cannot comment on rear disc vs. rear drum.
My 2013 Silverado has rear drum brakes and they seem to work just fine. I know that rear disc are easier to replace pads then rear drums, but I have never had to replace the shoes on rear drums on any car I have ever owned. I normally get rid of my vehicles at 100K or less, but when I look at the rear drum brakes they are still in good shape.
I've got a 1998 Chevy 1500 Express with 136,000 miles on it with the original shoes. I pulled the drums one day to inspect them and they still had plenty of friction material.
I've got a 1968 Ford Fairlane with four wheel manual drum brakes. This car has good braking but has several issues:
1) More effort is required to stop it because it doesn't have a brake booster
2) Pulls to one side if you hit a large mud puddle
3) Overheats if you ride the brakes too long. I pull it down into L2 going down hills.
4) Doesn't stop as straight. Hard to get the front brakes synchronized.
Then I have a Trabant with manual four wheel drum brakes. It's totally the opposite as the Fairlane. I can ride the brakes down the same hill and not overheat them and that car stops just as straight as if it had four wheel disc brakes. But this car weighs about half as the Ford.
What is the consensus of BITOG folks about rear drum brakes?
I have never owned a vehicle with rear disc brakes so I cannot comment on rear disc vs. rear drum.
My 2013 Silverado has rear drum brakes and they seem to work just fine. I know that rear disc are easier to replace pads then rear drums, but I have never had to replace the shoes on rear drums on any car I have ever owned. I normally get rid of my vehicles at 100K or less, but when I look at the rear drum brakes they are still in good shape.
I've got a 1998 Chevy 1500 Express with 136,000 miles on it with the original shoes. I pulled the drums one day to inspect them and they still had plenty of friction material.
I've got a 1968 Ford Fairlane with four wheel manual drum brakes. This car has good braking but has several issues:
1) More effort is required to stop it because it doesn't have a brake booster
2) Pulls to one side if you hit a large mud puddle
3) Overheats if you ride the brakes too long. I pull it down into L2 going down hills.
4) Doesn't stop as straight. Hard to get the front brakes synchronized.
Then I have a Trabant with manual four wheel drum brakes. It's totally the opposite as the Fairlane. I can ride the brakes down the same hill and not overheat them and that car stops just as straight as if it had four wheel disc brakes. But this car weighs about half as the Ford.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
I sometimes see rear drum brakes on American minivans or SUVs and I wonder what they were thinking.
Can't help but feel they cheaped out on brakes for a large family car.
They were thinking that the rear brakes on a front-heavy wrong-wheel drive vehicle don't do much...so why bother?
I sometimes see rear drum brakes on American minivans or SUVs and I wonder what they were thinking.
Can't help but feel they cheaped out on brakes for a large family car.
They were thinking that the rear brakes on a front-heavy wrong-wheel drive vehicle don't do much...so why bother?
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Brad_C
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I am not convinced, nor will I ever be convinced, that a belt is ever a better solution than a chain for driving a camshaft.
Luckily you don't have to be convinced for manufacturers to keep making great motors.
I understand there are a lot of DIY'ers here, I am one as well. If I owned an engine with a timing belt, I would be the one to change it. I would also be worrying once I got near the change interval that it would break, too. They have a habit of snapping or breaking a pulley once the change interval is near.
At least some are now pushing 150K mile replacements (oil bathed). I like that a bit better as most vehicles up here rust out before 150K
What about someone who is not a DIY'er and may not be that well off. Do you think they can pony up the $1000 to have a shop change the timing belt? Or what about on cases like the Aveo ... I have a friend in a similar situation - won't change the belt on his accord because he doesn't have $1000 to have a shop change it.
The good news is - most engines no longer use timing belts. I believe it's a result of trying to lower overall maintenance costs.
Oh bologna!
A habit of breaking a pulley when the change interval is near? Bunk!
An oil bathed timing belt? News to me... I've seen a few in the aftermarket for performance V8 applications, but never one OE. There are and have been many manufacturers doing 120k+ service intervals though.
A grand to change a t-belt on an Accord? Seems high. How much extra maintenance is being suggested?
Ford installed an oil bathed timing belt in the 1.0 Ecoboost.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Brad_C
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I am not convinced, nor will I ever be convinced, that a belt is ever a better solution than a chain for driving a camshaft.
Luckily you don't have to be convinced for manufacturers to keep making great motors.
I understand there are a lot of DIY'ers here, I am one as well. If I owned an engine with a timing belt, I would be the one to change it. I would also be worrying once I got near the change interval that it would break, too. They have a habit of snapping or breaking a pulley once the change interval is near.
At least some are now pushing 150K mile replacements (oil bathed). I like that a bit better as most vehicles up here rust out before 150K
What about someone who is not a DIY'er and may not be that well off. Do you think they can pony up the $1000 to have a shop change the timing belt? Or what about on cases like the Aveo ... I have a friend in a similar situation - won't change the belt on his accord because he doesn't have $1000 to have a shop change it.
The good news is - most engines no longer use timing belts. I believe it's a result of trying to lower overall maintenance costs.
Oh bologna!
A habit of breaking a pulley when the change interval is near? Bunk!
An oil bathed timing belt? News to me... I've seen a few in the aftermarket for performance V8 applications, but never one OE. There are and have been many manufacturers doing 120k+ service intervals though.
A grand to change a t-belt on an Accord? Seems high. How much extra maintenance is being suggested?
Ford installed an oil bathed timing belt in the 1.0 Ecoboost.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
I sometimes see rear drum brakes on American minivans or SUVs and I wonder what they were thinking.
Can't help but feel they cheaped out on brakes for a large family car.
They were thinking that the rear brakes on a front-heavy wrong-wheel drive vehicle don't do much...so why bother?
Once that minivan gets loaded up with people is it going to be front heavy?
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
I sometimes see rear drum brakes on American minivans or SUVs and I wonder what they were thinking.
Can't help but feel they cheaped out on brakes for a large family car.
They were thinking that the rear brakes on a front-heavy wrong-wheel drive vehicle don't do much...so why bother?
Once that minivan gets loaded up with people is it going to be front heavy?
I don't like working on drum brakes, but I have gotten much better at it than I used to be. My Cruze has rear drums and a timing belt, and I don't plan on having to maintenance either. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't if I have to.
Originally Posted By: Red91
I don't like working on drum brakes, but I have gotten much better at it than I used to be. My Cruze has rear drums and a timing belt, and I don't plan on having to maintenance either. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't if I have to.
They still use a timing belt? [censored]!
I just finished parking brake shoe replacement and spring replacement today. Took me 6+ hours.
If there are special tools for removing and re-inserting the springs I think I would like to buy them.
I don't like working on drum brakes, but I have gotten much better at it than I used to be. My Cruze has rear drums and a timing belt, and I don't plan on having to maintenance either. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't if I have to.
They still use a timing belt? [censored]!
I just finished parking brake shoe replacement and spring replacement today. Took me 6+ hours.
If there are special tools for removing and re-inserting the springs I think I would like to buy them.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
If there are special tools for removing and re-inserting the springs I think I would like to buy them.
Channel locks, vise grips and needle nose pliers are your friends.
If there are special tools for removing and re-inserting the springs I think I would like to buy them.
Channel locks, vise grips and needle nose pliers are your friends.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
If there are special tools for removing and re-inserting the springs I think I would like to buy them.
There are tools.
For the big springs, there is a shaft tool that has a little lip on one end. You catch that lip on the retainer and then lever the spring into place. Easy peasy. On brake pliers this tool is often one of the handle ends.
Another tool has a cup shaped end that holds down the retainer cup, and a hole in the side that allows you to see if the retainer pin is rotated. They come in different sizes.
With these tools and a little practice, it's a quick job.
If there are special tools for removing and re-inserting the springs I think I would like to buy them.
There are tools.
For the big springs, there is a shaft tool that has a little lip on one end. You catch that lip on the retainer and then lever the spring into place. Easy peasy. On brake pliers this tool is often one of the handle ends.
Another tool has a cup shaped end that holds down the retainer cup, and a hole in the side that allows you to see if the retainer pin is rotated. They come in different sizes.
With these tools and a little practice, it's a quick job.
The tools are worth buying. I tried my first brake job on drums without them on the front of my grandmother's T&C. I was doing fine, until the second one...at which point I managed to have a spring pop loose and fly directly in to my crotch. OWWWWWW!!!
I bought drum brake tools the next day.
I bought drum brake tools the next day.
Originally Posted By: Falken
In my opinion, they are better than rear discs for small economy cars.
+1 for the above comment.
In my opinion, they are better than rear discs for small economy cars.
+1 for the above comment.
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: Falken
In my opinion, they are better than rear discs for small economy cars.
+1 for the above comment.
How small?
I think something as big as a Cruze, Jetta, or Civic should have disks. They do for upper level trims. Might as well give them all disks.
Originally Posted By: Falken
In my opinion, they are better than rear discs for small economy cars.
+1 for the above comment.
How small?
I think something as big as a Cruze, Jetta, or Civic should have disks. They do for upper level trims. Might as well give them all disks.
Originally Posted By: stchman
I read an article that most over the road semi trucks are drum brakes all the way around.
Well, it was primarily because disc versions were not offered as an option until recently, irregardless of make or model. NHTSB has to be on board with any major thing like brakes. Now, most of the semi truck tractor makers offer air disc brakes as an option. I tried to get them on my current semi truck a few years ago, with no luck. If I went out an spec'd a truck today, I could get disc all the way around. And in fact, my next semi truck will indeed be spec'd with disc.
I read an article that most over the road semi trucks are drum brakes all the way around.
Well, it was primarily because disc versions were not offered as an option until recently, irregardless of make or model. NHTSB has to be on board with any major thing like brakes. Now, most of the semi truck tractor makers offer air disc brakes as an option. I tried to get them on my current semi truck a few years ago, with no luck. If I went out an spec'd a truck today, I could get disc all the way around. And in fact, my next semi truck will indeed be spec'd with disc.
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