Pennzoil Ultra vs Amsoil XL

[Pablo]

Just same old internet chat. Please don't tell me I'm out of my mind and other things since deleted, and then ask ME to keep it civil.

Not at all sure what M1 has to do with the conversation but the oils I mentioned may not pay the GM dues, but they are GF-5 and SN.

 

[4ever4d]

If you can get Amsoil cheaper than Pennzoil then use it by all means it will do a good job for you. Pennzoil will also do an excellent job as well. I am currently using Amsoil OE in my vehicles because i can get it, as you can, cheaper than any off the shelf synthetic with the exception being QSUD. Switching from one to the other will do no harm.

 

[slo town]

Question regarding Amsoil; exactly what OFFICIAL certifications does it have? API, ACEA, ILSAC, Ford, Chrsler, MB, BMW, VW?

 

[Garak]

Pablo will know far more about that, but at least some of them have API certification.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: hooligan24
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Trex101
Amsoil XL are more equal to PP than PU.


Why do you write this? Please back your opinion. Thanks.

I would say OE is somewhat better than PP, and XL is at least equivalent of PU, except XL has a stouter additive package.


Why do you write this? Please back your opinion. Thanks


I answered above, but since you asked, no problem. Because of the performance over the years in real applications. OE = the old XL. The UOA's and the cleanliness of engines. Most people who use XL, prefer it to PP for TBN retention and this can be seen even in the UOA's. I am not saying PP engines are as dirty inside as, say, Castrol engines, but the XL engines just stay clean. Now the new XL, with better additives is better than PP and so far, at least equivalent to PU, if not better.


I'd love to see the proof that Castrol lubed engines are dirty. I won't be using it anymore because of the formula change, but I'd love to see real hardcore facts that Castrol lubed engines are dirty inside. To keep it real lets, be sure the engines weren't neglected or had mechanical issues.

 

[buster]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2641031&#Post2641031


Here is a nice 15k mile run on PU. One of the best UOA's I've seen to date.

 

[dave1251]

This is like debating Blondes versus Brunettes. The one that is superior is the one that is superior in your mind.

 

[HK_Ace]

Castrol leaves engines dirty? Maybe in the hallways of AMSOIL HQ...

 

[slo town]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Pablo will know far more about that, but at least some of them have API certification.


So Amsoil says the following about their 5w-20 XL. All it says is “recommended for”. There is not a single claim or suggestion that Amsoil 5w-20 XL has been officially approved for any of the specifications they list. I think it a completely fair conclusion to say that this Amsoil has no official certifications or approvals.

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL XL Synthetic Motor Oils are excellent for use in all types of gasoline-fueled vehicles. They are recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications:

XLM 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil

• API SN (Resource Conserving), SM...; ILSAC GF-5,
GF-4...; ACEA A1/B1; GM 6094M; Ford WSS-M2C945-A,
WSS-M2C930-A; Chrysler MS-6395
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is what Mobil 1 says about their 0w-40. What does “meets or exceeds” mean? If it were officially approved I would think Exxon-Mobil would have said so. That said, I feel far more comfortable with claims of “meets or exceeds” (Mobil 1) than I do “recommended” (Amsoil).

Mobil 1 0W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of:

API SN/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Nissan GT-R

Props to Exxon-Mobil for the next set of specifications; which they say “has the following builder approvals”. It can’t be any more clear than that!

Mobil 1 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:

MB-Approval 229.3
MB-Approval 229.5
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01
VW 502 00/505 00
PORSCHE A40

Props again to Exxon-Mobil for making a clear statement regarding the following specification; they are not claiming any official certification or approval has been given, just that Exxon-Mobil thinks that it does. They are making a clear statement.

According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality:

API CF
VW 503 01
SAAB
OPEL Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
OPEL Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - M2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - N2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - Z2

In summary, if I make a comparison of manufacturer claims, Exxon-Mobil gets a good grade for being clear and unambiguous. Their oil is indeed officially certified and approved for some specifications. With respect to Amsoil, I have no confidence what-so-ever that it is OFFICIALLY certified or approved for any of the specifications that they list.

Scott

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Originally Posted By: Garak
Pablo will know far more about that, but at least some of them have API certification.


So Amsoil says the following about their 5w-20 XL. All it says is “recommended for”. There is not a single claim or suggestion that Amsoil 5w-20 XL has been officially approved for any of the specifications they list. I think it a completely fair conclusion to say that this Amsoil has no official certifications or approvals.

The XL line is API certified. Otherwise, Amsoil would not be able to feature the API starburst logo on the XL bottles like they do.

Quote:
With respect to Amsoil, I have no confidence what-so-ever that it is OFFICIALLY certified or approved for any of the specifications that they list.

While it is true that some of Amsoil's oils aren't officially certified, all it really means is that Amsoil chose to not have them certified (for cost and other business/political reasons, as was discussed here numerous times in the past). So, this information is not very useful because we don't know if these oils would meet such specs or not. Maybe they would.

Another words, we don't have sufficient info here to be able to make a determination one way or the other.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Originally Posted By: Garak
Pablo will know far more about that, but at least some of them have API certification.


So Amsoil says the following about their 5w-20 XL. All it says is “recommended for”. There is not a single claim or suggestion that Amsoil 5w-20 XL has been officially approved for any of the specifications they list. I think it a completely fair conclusion to say that this Amsoil has no official certifications or approvals.

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL XL Synthetic Motor Oils are excellent for use in all types of gasoline-fueled vehicles. They are recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications:

XLM 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil

• API SN (Resource Conserving), SM...; ILSAC GF-5,
GF-4...; ACEA A1/B1; GM 6094M; Ford WSS-M2C945-A,
WSS-M2C930-A; Chrysler MS-6395
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is what Mobil 1 says about their 0w-40. What does “meets or exceeds” mean? If it were officially approved I would think Exxon-Mobil would have said so. That said, I feel far more comfortable with claims of “meets or exceeds” (Mobil 1) than I do “recommended” (Amsoil).

Mobil 1 0W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of:

API SN/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Nissan GT-R

Props to Exxon-Mobil for the next set of specifications; which they say “has the following builder approvals”. It can’t be any more clear than that!

Mobil 1 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:

MB-Approval 229.3
MB-Approval 229.5
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01
VW 502 00/505 00
PORSCHE A40

Props again to Exxon-Mobil for making a clear statement regarding the following specification; they are not claiming any official certification or approval has been given, just that Exxon-Mobil thinks that it does. They are making a clear statement.

According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality:

API CF
VW 503 01
SAAB
OPEL Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
OPEL Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - M2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - N2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - Z2

In summary, if I make a comparison of manufacturer claims, Exxon-Mobil gets a good grade for being clear and unambiguous. Their oil is indeed officially certified and approved for some specifications. With respect to Amsoil, I have no confidence what-so-ever that it is OFFICIALLY certified or approved for any of the specifications that they list.

Scott


What does Mobil One have to due with a Amsoil;Pennzoil thread?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: dave1251

What does Mobil One have to due with a Amsoil;Pennzoil thread?

Yeah, and M1 0w-40 at that. I'm pretty sure M1 0w-40 is not the right oil for the OP's new F150.

 

[slo town]

What does Mobil One have to due with a Amsoil;Pennzoil thread?


Fair point, sorry for the confusion. My point was that some manufacturers make their claims clear, while others do not. I used M1 0w-40 while trying to make my point because it had three different certification "sets", and statements regarding each. In other words, I thought it made a good example.

Quattro Pete is correct regarding the API Starburst symbol on the Amsoil XL bottle. That does indeed mean it's certified by the API. But beyond that, I don't think so.

I am very discriminating about automotive fluids and it is just my opinion that I would never use any oil that didn't have the proper certification for my vehicle. Specifically, if I don't see an OFFICIAL certification for LL-01 (for my BMW) or a 229.5 (for my MB), etc., I would not even considering using an oil that simply said that it was "recommended for".

BTW, excluding energy conserving oils, it is my opinion the the MB 229.5 spec is about as stringent as any out there. What's nice also it that MB provides regular updates to their approved oils, which I think is very useful. I have never seen any Amsoil certification on the MB approved oil list, even though the Amsoil website says their European Car Formula 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil is suitable. Why would I use Amsoil when I have about 100 other choices that MB has explicitly certified?

Once again, sorry for the confusion with my Mobil 1 0w-40 comparison. I hope I explained myself on that point.

It's just that I see no benefit from using any oil (Amsoil or whatever), unless it is OFFICIALLY certified and approved for my particular application.

That was my point.

Cheers,

Scott

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
It's just that I see no benefit from using any oil (Amsoil or whatever), unless it is OFFICIALLY certified and approved for my particular application.

That was my point.

Understood, but in OP's case, an API certification is probably the only thing required, so both PU as well as XL would be "officially certified and approved for [that] particular application". And if he can get the XL for less than PU, then that may tip the scale towards XL.

Now, if you have an engine requiring one of the German specs, then I agree with your thought process completely.

 

[ltslimjim]

lol...great thread.

Ultra or XL, whatever is cheaper; or that you just fancy. Don't think you can go 'wrong' with either.

 

[slo town]

The following is right out of a 2012 F-150 owners manual from the Ford website (put in qoutes).

Ford says to use an API certified oil for gasoline engines. A bit vague but their point, presumably, is that people not use an HDEO.

“Only use oils certified for gasoline engines by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.”

But then they get more specific and state the following:

“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft_ SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”

Everything is crazy expensive now days, and I’ll bet a new factory replacement motor for the OP’s F-150 would cost upwards of $15k. At least. I wonder if Ford would warranty that motor if it failed while using that Amsoil XL? I doubt it.

If it were my vehicle I would go the Mobil 1 5w-20 route because Exxon-Mobil makes specific mention on their website that it is approved for use in WSS-M2C945-A specs. All Amsoil says about official specifications is that it is API certified for gasoline engines (vague) and recommended for WSS-M2C945-A (and presumably not approved). I do not believe Amsoil would adequate in Ford’s opinion.

So, given all this, why would the OP not want to use Mobil 1?

Scott

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft_ SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”

Thanks for digging this up.

If that is indeed the requirement, then I would skip XL and go for PU or any other oil that actually meets this spec, just to CYA during warranty period.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
The following is right out of a 2012 F-150 owners manual from the Ford website (put in qoutes).

Ford says to use an API certified oil for gasoline engines. A bit vague but their point, presumably, is that people not use an HDEO.

“Only use oils certified for gasoline engines by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.”

But then they get more specific and state the following:

“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft_ SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”

Everything is crazy expensive now days, and I’ll bet a new factory replacement motor for the OP’s F-150 would cost upwards of $15k. At least. I wonder if Ford would warranty that motor if it failed while using that Amsoil XL? I doubt it.

If it were my vehicle I would go the Mobil 1 5w-20 route because Exxon-Mobil makes specific mention on their website that it is approved for use in WSS-M2C945-A specs. All Amsoil says about official specifications is that it is API certified for gasoline engines (vague) and recommended for WSS-M2C945-A (and presumably not approved). I do not believe Amsoil would adequate in Ford’s opinion.

So, given all this, why would the OP not want to use Mobil 1?

Scott



Could Ford attempt to deny warranty coverage by using Amsoil XL. Yes Ford could attempt to deny coverage by using just about any oil Chrysler could attempt to deny warrenty coverage by using Mobil products because currently Mobil products do not meet Chrysler specs.

But here is the where the rubber meets the road to speak.

Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a manufacture must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the manufacture cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.

So if you decide to use a product especially a product that meets a certification such as the requirements agreed upon the API the burden of proof would be on the manufacture.

15K are you talking about Shelby GT 1000?

 

[slo town]

Dave1251, I wonder how much money is the OP going to save using XL over M1? $2 or $3 a quart? Given the potential hassle, those small savings aren't worth it.

Scott

 

[Brigadier]

Definitely not if something happens and he has to lawyer up. FoMoCo has much deeper pockets and lawyers for such things on staff.

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Dave1251, I wonder how much money is the OP going to save using XL over M1? $2 or $3 a quart? Given the potential hassle, those small savings aren't worth it.

Scott