Pennzoil Ultra vs Amsoil XL
- Thread starter YANCEY
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Originally Posted By: YANCEY
You are right the dealer told me that they would not cover warranty claim if I used amsoil in my truck so with that said I am going to stay with Pennzoil or Mobil 1.I can buy them for about the same price.
Please PM me the dealer and the sales rep's name who told you this lie. Amsoil likes to follow up on such cases. Thanks.
You are right the dealer told me that they would not cover warranty claim if I used amsoil in my truck so with that said I am going to stay with Pennzoil or Mobil 1.I can buy them for about the same price.
Please PM me the dealer and the sales rep's name who told you this lie. Amsoil likes to follow up on such cases. Thanks.
Originally Posted By: YANCEY
You are right the dealer told me that they would not cover warranty claim if I used amsoil in my truck so with that said I am going to stay with Pennzoil or Mobil 1.I can buy them for about the same price.
OE and XL are both API SN/GF5 Licensed. Thats all that matters. It meets the specs the manufacturer requires and specifies in the owners manual.
Inform the dealer they are licensed and then ask him to put it into writing that he will not honor the warranty if you use the specified product.
If you use an unlicensed product (like the higher line Amsoil) which doesnt meet the requirements in your manual (API Licensed) then the onus would fall on you to prove the product didnt cause the damage. With a licensed product the onus falls on the manufacturer who has to prove it was caused by the product in which case Amsoil would be libel for the damages.
You are right the dealer told me that they would not cover warranty claim if I used amsoil in my truck so with that said I am going to stay with Pennzoil or Mobil 1.I can buy them for about the same price.
OE and XL are both API SN/GF5 Licensed. Thats all that matters. It meets the specs the manufacturer requires and specifies in the owners manual.
Inform the dealer they are licensed and then ask him to put it into writing that he will not honor the warranty if you use the specified product.
If you use an unlicensed product (like the higher line Amsoil) which doesnt meet the requirements in your manual (API Licensed) then the onus would fall on you to prove the product didnt cause the damage. With a licensed product the onus falls on the manufacturer who has to prove it was caused by the product in which case Amsoil would be libel for the damages.
Originally Posted By: Gene K
If you use an unlicensed product (like the higher line Amsoil) which doesnt meet the requirements in your manual (API Licensed) then the onus would fall on you to prove the product didnt cause the damage. With a licensed product the onus falls on the manufacturer who has to prove it was caused by the product in which case Amsoil would be libel for the damages.
This is not precisely true. Even with the SS line, if the manufacturer said the failure cause was because of the oil choice, he would have to show some proof.
If you use an unlicensed product (like the higher line Amsoil) which doesnt meet the requirements in your manual (API Licensed) then the onus would fall on you to prove the product didnt cause the damage. With a licensed product the onus falls on the manufacturer who has to prove it was caused by the product in which case Amsoil would be libel for the damages.
This is not precisely true. Even with the SS line, if the manufacturer said the failure cause was because of the oil choice, he would have to show some proof.
Originally Posted By: Capa
I wouldn't put too much stock on Sopus' PDS---they don't have the best reputation for accuracy.
If this was the first revision then i would agree but not when it has been updated twice.
Shell makes some great oils. Who knows what formula they are using for this Pennzoil branded product, it could well be one of high end Euro shell formulas.
I wouldn't put too much stock on Sopus' PDS---they don't have the best reputation for accuracy.
If this was the first revision then i would agree but not when it has been updated twice.
Shell makes some great oils. Who knows what formula they are using for this Pennzoil branded product, it could well be one of high end Euro shell formulas.
Their "updates" mean absolutely nothing since they currently
have NO PDS. Pennzoils site displays "This page does no exist"
when you click the PDS link.
The Pennzoil Ultra PDS was removed after they recd a lot of questions about their low NOACK numbers on their previous
PDS.
Since they have not "updated"....again.....to provide "correct"
information to the consumer, one might conclude that Pennzoil
Ultra isn't all it's hydrocracked up to be and it's NOACK numbers ( and most probably others ) as posted in the past are as bogus as the Pennzoil site.
have NO PDS. Pennzoils site displays "This page does no exist"
when you click the PDS link.
The Pennzoil Ultra PDS was removed after they recd a lot of questions about their low NOACK numbers on their previous
PDS.
Since they have not "updated"....again.....to provide "correct"
information to the consumer, one might conclude that Pennzoil
Ultra isn't all it's hydrocracked up to be and it's NOACK numbers ( and most probably others ) as posted in the past are as bogus as the Pennzoil site.
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Their "updates" mean absolutely nothing since they currently
have NO PDS. Pennzoils site displays "This page does no exist"
when you click the PDS link.
The Pennzoil Ultra PDS was removed after they recd a lot of questions about their low NOACK numbers on their previous
PDS.
Since they have not "updated"....again.....to provide "correct"
information to the consumer, one might conclude that Pennzoil
Ultra isn't all it's hydrocracked up to be and it's NOACK numbers ( and most probably others ) as posted in the past are as bogus as the Pennzoil site.
Correct.
Their "updates" mean absolutely nothing since they currently
have NO PDS. Pennzoils site displays "This page does no exist"
when you click the PDS link.
The Pennzoil Ultra PDS was removed after they recd a lot of questions about their low NOACK numbers on their previous
PDS.
Since they have not "updated"....again.....to provide "correct"
information to the consumer, one might conclude that Pennzoil
Ultra isn't all it's hydrocracked up to be and it's NOACK numbers ( and most probably others ) as posted in the past are as bogus as the Pennzoil site.
Correct.
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Their "updates" mean absolutely nothing since they currently have NO PDS.
I found it at www.epc.shell.com with the PDS here.
Their "updates" mean absolutely nothing since they currently have NO PDS.
I found it at www.epc.shell.com with the PDS here.
The PAO rumors are simply based on Pennzoil's PDS numbers, specifically Noack. Ultra is a very good oil but it is clear that most people here don't put much faith in Sopus' numbers. I certainly don't, and until they come out with full disclosure it is natural and logical to believe that Ultra is mainly Group 3. Also, PAO is expensive and somehow I missed the price hike
All, once again as I posted earlier:
Ford says to use an API certified oil for gasoline engines. A bit vague but their point, presumably, is that people not use an HDEO.
“Only use oils certified for gasoline engines by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.”
But then they get more specific and state the following:
“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
These are quotes directly out of the 2012 Ford F-150 owners manual.
An API certified oil is not good enough to prevent Ford warranty issues. Rather, the oil needs to be API certified AND meet WSS-M2C945-A.
Scott
Ford says to use an API certified oil for gasoline engines. A bit vague but their point, presumably, is that people not use an HDEO.
“Only use oils certified for gasoline engines by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.”
But then they get more specific and state the following:
“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
These are quotes directly out of the 2012 Ford F-150 owners manual.
An API certified oil is not good enough to prevent Ford warranty issues. Rather, the oil needs to be API certified AND meet WSS-M2C945-A.
Scott
Last edited:
I know i'm repeating myself, but i believe it's a good point - SOPUS has SO much 'invested' in their group-III production processes - slack-wax XHVI; and GTL, that it doesn't make sense for them to start using PAO's in their top oils.
I think the NOAK on their GTL-formulated oils are just that good, period.
I think the NOAK on their GTL-formulated oils are just that good, period.
Just use MC, Amsoil OE, QSUD or Penn and call it a day.
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
All, once again as I posted earlier:
Ford says to use an API certified oil for gasoline engines. A bit vague but their point, presumably, is that people not use an HDEO.
“Only use oils certified for gasoline engines by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.”
But then they get more specific and state the following:
“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
These are quotes directly out of the 2012 Ford F-150 owners manual.
An API certified oil is not good enough to prevent Ford warranty issues. Rather, the oil needs to be API certified AND meet WSS-M2C945-A.
Scott
I have also stated this before. WSS-M2C945-A=API SN;ISLAC GF-5.
Now you do not like Amsoil. Fine. I do not like XOM and RP. But that being said if I will use a Mobil, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Red Line, Pennzoil, Quaker State, one of the many Conoco Philips products, Valvoline, Castrol, or name a few name brands that I have not mentioned and I would not worry about Ford Honoring my warranty.
All, once again as I posted earlier:
Ford says to use an API certified oil for gasoline engines. A bit vague but their point, presumably, is that people not use an HDEO.
“Only use oils certified for gasoline engines by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.”
But then they get more specific and state the following:
“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
These are quotes directly out of the 2012 Ford F-150 owners manual.
An API certified oil is not good enough to prevent Ford warranty issues. Rather, the oil needs to be API certified AND meet WSS-M2C945-A.
Scott
I have also stated this before. WSS-M2C945-A=API SN;ISLAC GF-5.
Now you do not like Amsoil. Fine. I do not like XOM and RP. But that being said if I will use a Mobil, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Red Line, Pennzoil, Quaker State, one of the many Conoco Philips products, Valvoline, Castrol, or name a few name brands that I have not mentioned and I would not worry about Ford Honoring my warranty.
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
All, once again as I posted earlier:
Ford says to use an API certified oil for gasoline engines. A bit vague but their point, presumably, is that people not use an HDEO.
“Only use oils certified for gasoline engines by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.”
But then they get more specific and state the following:
“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
These are quotes directly out of the 2012 Ford F-150 owners manual.
An API certified oil is not good enough to prevent Ford warranty issues. Rather, the oil needs to be API certified AND meet WSS-M2C945-A.
Scott
Which Amsoil does meet. So I'm not sure why you reposted this. Did you have a point?
All, once again as I posted earlier:
Ford says to use an API certified oil for gasoline engines. A bit vague but their point, presumably, is that people not use an HDEO.
“Only use oils certified for gasoline engines by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.”
But then they get more specific and state the following:
“To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
These are quotes directly out of the 2012 Ford F-150 owners manual.
An API certified oil is not good enough to prevent Ford warranty issues. Rather, the oil needs to be API certified AND meet WSS-M2C945-A.
Scott
Which Amsoil does meet. So I'm not sure why you reposted this. Did you have a point?
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I know i'm repeating myself, but i believe it's a good point - SOPUS has SO much 'invested' in their group-III production processes - slack-wax XHVI; and GTL, that it doesn't make sense for them to start using PAO's in their top oils.
I think the NOAK on their GTL-formulated oils are just that good, period.
I might be tempted to try it out again post-PDS and new product on the shelving...or just get me more AZO.
I know i'm repeating myself, but i believe it's a good point - SOPUS has SO much 'invested' in their group-III production processes - slack-wax XHVI; and GTL, that it doesn't make sense for them to start using PAO's in their top oils.
I think the NOAK on their GTL-formulated oils are just that good, period.
I might be tempted to try it out again post-PDS and new product on the shelving...or just get me more AZO.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I have also stated this before. WSS-M2C945-A=API SN;ISLAC GF-5.
Can you point us to the source of information regarding your claim? I think it'd help the OP and many others who have taken part in this thread.
Scott
I have also stated this before. WSS-M2C945-A=API SN;ISLAC GF-5.
Can you point us to the source of information regarding your claim? I think it'd help the OP and many others who have taken part in this thread.
Scott
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Which Amsoil does meet. So I'm not sure why you reposted this. Did you have a point?
See Gene K. below.
The official FOMOCO 2012 F-150 owners manual states that “To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
It isn't clear whether or not SN/GF5 satisfies this requirement, unless Dave can show us the source of information where he claims WSS-M2C945-A is the same as SN/GF5. I'm sure Dave wouldn't make his claim unless he had found official documentation supporting it. If Dave can provide this, it'll help everyone on this thread.
Originally Posted By: Gene K
OE and XL are both API SN/GF5 Licensed. Thats all that matters. It meets the specs the manufacturer requires and specifies in the owners manual.
Pablo, since you are the Amsoil guy, it would help everyone interested in your oil if you talked to Corporate and had them clarify the Amsoil website. For the 5w-20 XL, the Amsoil website claims:
"APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL XL Synthetic Motor Oils are excellent for use in all types of gasoline-fueled vehicles. They are recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications:
XLM 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil
API SN (Resource Conserving), SM...; ILSAC GF-5,
GF-4...; ACEA A1/B1; GM 6094M; Ford WSS-M2C945-A,
WSS-M2C930-A; Chrysler MS-6395"
Wouldn't it be more clear if Amsoil would just say "Certified" and/or "Approved"? "Recommended for" is ambiguous. "Recommended for" does not claim an actual certification or approval.
All this said, with the claims you and Dave are making, I think between the two of you, this issue of Amsoil XL being certified for WSS-M2C945-A (you), and WSS-M2C945-A being equal to SN/GF5 (Dave), can be answered with official documentation.
Pablo, you're the Amsoil guy. I think it a reasonable request for you to ask Amsoil to provide some clarity on my "Recommended for" issue. Your job is not just to sell product, it is to follow-up and answer questions that consumers may have.
Scott
Which Amsoil does meet. So I'm not sure why you reposted this. Did you have a point?
See Gene K. below.
The official FOMOCO 2012 F-150 owners manual states that “To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
It isn't clear whether or not SN/GF5 satisfies this requirement, unless Dave can show us the source of information where he claims WSS-M2C945-A is the same as SN/GF5. I'm sure Dave wouldn't make his claim unless he had found official documentation supporting it. If Dave can provide this, it'll help everyone on this thread.
Originally Posted By: Gene K
OE and XL are both API SN/GF5 Licensed. Thats all that matters. It meets the specs the manufacturer requires and specifies in the owners manual.
Pablo, since you are the Amsoil guy, it would help everyone interested in your oil if you talked to Corporate and had them clarify the Amsoil website. For the 5w-20 XL, the Amsoil website claims:
"APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL XL Synthetic Motor Oils are excellent for use in all types of gasoline-fueled vehicles. They are recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications:
XLM 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil
API SN (Resource Conserving), SM...; ILSAC GF-5,
GF-4...; ACEA A1/B1; GM 6094M; Ford WSS-M2C945-A,
WSS-M2C930-A; Chrysler MS-6395"
Wouldn't it be more clear if Amsoil would just say "Certified" and/or "Approved"? "Recommended for" is ambiguous. "Recommended for" does not claim an actual certification or approval.
All this said, with the claims you and Dave are making, I think between the two of you, this issue of Amsoil XL being certified for WSS-M2C945-A (you), and WSS-M2C945-A being equal to SN/GF5 (Dave), can be answered with official documentation.
Pablo, you're the Amsoil guy. I think it a reasonable request for you to ask Amsoil to provide some clarity on my "Recommended for" issue. Your job is not just to sell product, it is to follow-up and answer questions that consumers may have.
Scott
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Which Amsoil does meet. So I'm not sure why you reposted this. Did you have a point?
See Gene K. below.
The official FOMOCO 2012 F-150 owners manual states that “To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
It isn't clear whether or not SN/GF5 satisfies this requirement, unless Dave can show us the source of information where he claims WSS-M2C945-A is the same as SN/GF5. I'm sure Dave wouldn't make his claim unless he had found official documentation supporting it. If Dave can provide this, it'll help everyone on this thread.
Originally Posted By: Gene K
OE and XL are both API SN/GF5 Licensed. Thats all that matters. It meets the specs the manufacturer requires and specifies in the owners manual.
Pablo, since you are the Amsoil guy, it would help everyone interested in your oil if you talked to Corporate and had them clarify the Amsoil website. For the 5w-20 XL, the Amsoil website claims:
"APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL XL Synthetic Motor Oils are excellent for use in all types of gasoline-fueled vehicles. They are recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications:
XLM 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil
API SN (Resource Conserving), SM...; ILSAC GF-5,
GF-4...; ACEA A1/B1; GM 6094M; Ford WSS-M2C945-A,
WSS-M2C930-A; Chrysler MS-6395"
Wouldn't it be more clear if Amsoil would just say "Certified" and/or "Approved"? "Recommended for" is ambiguous. "Recommended for" does not claim an actual certification or approval.
All this said, with the claims you and Dave are making, I think between the two of you, this issue of Amsoil XL being certified for WSS-M2C945-A (you), and WSS-M2C945-A being equal to SN/GF5 (Dave), can be answered with official documentation.
Pablo, you're the Amsoil guy. I think it a reasonable request for you to ask Amsoil to provide some clarity on my "Recommended for" issue. Your job is not just to sell product, it is to follow-up and answer questions that consumers may have.
Scott
It is very simple contact Ford. Ford does not maintain a list of API Certified oils. I can only give you information that I have from being a Ford owner. If you contact Ford regarding motor oil Ford is going to recommend Motorcraft. To get a different answer you have to talk to a company representative. The OP is having a problem with the dealership service manager correct? If the issue can not be resolved thru the service manager you need to contact the Ford service representative for your area. This would not be the first time a dealership service manager has contradicted a manufactures policy. Also from experience being a Ford owner I must of have a lot of luck because I have taken in my vehicles to have warranty service completed and each dealership did not even ask if I kept service records.
Also if you want to pay I will link you to a website that will go into detail of the WSS-M2C945-A specification.
http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store/Details.aspx?ProductID=1430718
Now to if this does not satisfy you I think the next step would be for me to use Amsoil and then intentionally sludge up my engine. That is not going to happen I do not intentionally destroy any equipment unless the outcome justifies the means. In this case to prove a point to grown person acting anything but is not.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Which Amsoil does meet. So I'm not sure why you reposted this. Did you have a point?
See Gene K. below.
The official FOMOCO 2012 F-150 owners manual states that “To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A.”
It isn't clear whether or not SN/GF5 satisfies this requirement, unless Dave can show us the source of information where he claims WSS-M2C945-A is the same as SN/GF5. I'm sure Dave wouldn't make his claim unless he had found official documentation supporting it. If Dave can provide this, it'll help everyone on this thread.
Originally Posted By: Gene K
OE and XL are both API SN/GF5 Licensed. Thats all that matters. It meets the specs the manufacturer requires and specifies in the owners manual.
Pablo, since you are the Amsoil guy, it would help everyone interested in your oil if you talked to Corporate and had them clarify the Amsoil website. For the 5w-20 XL, the Amsoil website claims:
"APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL XL Synthetic Motor Oils are excellent for use in all types of gasoline-fueled vehicles. They are recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications:
XLM 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil
API SN (Resource Conserving), SM...; ILSAC GF-5,
GF-4...; ACEA A1/B1; GM 6094M; Ford WSS-M2C945-A,
WSS-M2C930-A; Chrysler MS-6395"
Wouldn't it be more clear if Amsoil would just say "Certified" and/or "Approved"? "Recommended for" is ambiguous. "Recommended for" does not claim an actual certification or approval.
All this said, with the claims you and Dave are making, I think between the two of you, this issue of Amsoil XL being certified for WSS-M2C945-A (you), and WSS-M2C945-A being equal to SN/GF5 (Dave), can be answered with official documentation.
Pablo, you're the Amsoil guy. I think it a reasonable request for you to ask Amsoil to provide some clarity on my "Recommended for" issue. Your job is not just to sell product, it is to follow-up and answer questions that consumers may have.
Scott
It is very simple contact Ford. Ford does not maintain a list of API Certified oils. I can only give you information that I have from being a Ford owner. If you contact Ford regarding motor oil Ford is going to recommend Motorcraft. To get a different answer you have to talk to a company representative. The OP is having a problem with the dealership service manager correct? If the issue can not be resolved thru the service manager you need to contact the Ford service representative for your area. This would not be the first time a dealership service manager has contradicted a manufactures policy. Also from experience being a Ford owner I must of have a lot of luck because I have taken in my vehicles to have warranty service completed and each dealership did not even ask if I kept service records.
Also if you want to pay I will link you to a website that will go into detail of the WSS-M2C945-A specification.
http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store/Details.aspx?ProductID=1430718
Now to if this does not satisfy you I think the next step would be for me to use Amsoil and then intentionally sludge up my engine. That is not going to happen I do not intentionally destroy any equipment unless the outcome justifies the means. In this case to prove a point to grown person acting anything but is not.
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Pablo, you're the Amsoil guy. I think it a reasonable request for you to ask Amsoil to provide some clarity on my "Recommended for" issue. Your job is not just to sell product, it is to follow-up and answer questions that consumers may have.
Absolutely. I stand by and answer questions for consumers.
Amsoil XL 5W-20 meets Ford WSS-M2C945-A. Amsoil is recommended for new Fords.
Thanks,
Paul
Pablo, you're the Amsoil guy. I think it a reasonable request for you to ask Amsoil to provide some clarity on my "Recommended for" issue. Your job is not just to sell product, it is to follow-up and answer questions that consumers may have.
Absolutely. I stand by and answer questions for consumers.
Amsoil XL 5W-20 meets Ford WSS-M2C945-A. Amsoil is recommended for new Fords.
Thanks,
Paul
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