Need info on used BMW 3 series

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
geeman,

For that much money you can buy a new Accord / Camry.

Funny -- this exact idea is what makes me and most of my friends laugh at the idea of buying a brand new Accord/Camry. I.e., why buy something that utterly boring to drive when you could have something like a NICE used E46 for the same price?


Does ANY 10+ year old car DRIVE nice... really..? After new shocks/struts, front end work and various other wear out parts get fixed, then yes... see the $ 5000 + recommendation...


Good ones do, yes. The typical person could get into a junk BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and not really know the difference behind the wheel compared to a good one. This is why a PPI is so important if you don't know what your looking at.

Go to enthusiast forums and buy one from an enthusiast. My cousin has had a 330CI with a manual since almost new, I think its a 2004, great car, still super clean.

If you do buy one get a stick, a BMW with an auto is kind of pointless. Like dating a girl who doesn't like to have sex...

OTOH leases are cheap, my business partner just picked up a 428I for $450 a month. But its kind of a meh car.

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: geeman789

Does ANY 10+ year old car DRIVE nice... really..?


Yes. My M5 still has the original suspension minus a tie-rod end. It now has a noisy strut bushing on the drivers front but other than that the damping is still fine with the OE units on all four corners.


And my 2000 528i with all original suspension still rides, brakes and steers fine as well. BMW makes a tough car.

Several people have suggested getting a manual transmission. I couldn't agree more. It's really nice to be able to drive a mid sized sport/luxury sedan and shift for yourself. And if things do go wrong a repair is half ways affordable. Finally, in the classic car market (say 20 years old and older), a manual transmission is a key feature.

I have a 2007 Honda Accord V6 6MT sedan as well. The BMW costs more to maintain for sure, and I get slightly better mileage with the Honda, but the ride and handling don't compare.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: geeman789

Does ANY 10+ year old car DRIVE nice... really..?


Yes. My M5 still has the original suspension minus a tie-rod end. It now has a noisy strut bushing on the drivers front but other than that the damping is still fine with the OE units on all four corners.


I also own a car that is almost 10 years old and has 100k miles on it and still drives perfectly. Just had the old girl up in the air and gave her a full checkout of the chassis. The only parts that were worn are the brake pads, every suspension component is tight and the steering was, too.

Bilsteins in the front and Nivomats in the rear must mean a lifetime suspension...

 

[supton]

I think my 10yr old car drives nicely. Took two sets of struts, but I'm not sure those are not wear items over nearly 300k.

Now if you want to consider interior rattles...

 

[CharBaby]

In August this year, my wife and I went to Chicago to see the Orioles play the Cubs and to see Wrigley Field(1914-2014) 100 years of history.

My cousin in Chicago has an '05 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro w 140K miles. This car is real quiet and takes the Chicago city bumps without fuss or noise!

I was very impressed by the solidity/body structure of the whole car and it's quietness(though taut ride) on the highway at 80 mph. It's among the tightest/quietest high mileage cars I've ever been in!

The Wrigley Field experience was great too!

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Does ANY 10+ year old car DRIVE nice... really..?

The E46 is arguably one of the best driving cars ever. To be clear, I'm weighting handling, responsiveness, and ergonomics highly. I know some folks don't even know what those things mean, so I want to lay that out there from the start.

Either way, the Accord and Camry shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. They drive like what they are: cars built for people who don't actually want to be driving.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I had an E46 and a brand new Accord or Camry in front of me, the E46 would have to be dangerously broken to make me not prefer it. Or the Accord/Camry would have to be manual and the E46 would have to be automatic.

Originally Posted By: geeman789
After new shocks/struts, front end work and various other wear out parts get fixed, then yes... see the $ 5000 + recommendation...

If you work on your own car, or have the cash to fix the inevitable problems ( any brand...) then, yes buying a 10 year old car might make sense.,

If we're comparing a brand new Accord/Camry to an E46 for the SAME price, the E46 will be in good enough shape that it won't have a lot of those 10 year-old car problems.

More realistically, the Accord/Camry will cost more up front and the E46 will cost more in upkeep. In that case, if you spread those costs over the time you own the car, the E46 really isn't going to be much more expensive if at all.

Either way, chalk up the difference to having a car that you look forward to driving vs. one that just gets you there painlessly. That makes a BIG impact on quality of life unless you almost never drive.


Originally Posted By: geeman789
If you don't, that BORING Honda is gonna be way better than a 10 + year old anything...

A broken car can be fixed. A worn car can be refreshed.

A boring car will always be boring.

My 1996 M3 on its worst day -- as in, overheating to the point that I had to limp it home -- was still more satisfying to drive than a brand spankin' new Mercedes C300, let alone an Accord or Camry.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I'm weighting handling, responsiveness, and ergonomics highly. I know some folks don't even know what those things mean, so I want to lay that out there from the start.

Either way, the Accord and Camry shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. They drive like what they are: cars built for people who don't actually want to be driving.


Either way, chalk up the difference to having a car that you look forward to driving vs. one that just gets you there painlessly. That makes a BIG impact on quality of life unless you almost never drive.

A broken car can be fixed. A worn car can be refreshed.

A boring car will always be boring.



Speak the truth!

I have to have something to look forward to, thus there will always be something 'special' in my driveway also...

 

[supton]

I'm tired of having a vehicle I like. I hate it when it gets scratched or broken. Hate having to research every repair and fluid. Hate paying for it too. I have other things in life I need to focus on.

But if it floats your boat go for it.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: supton
I'm tired of having a vehicle I like. I hate it when it gets scratched or broken. Hate having to research every repair and fluid. Hate paying for it too. I have other things in life I need to focus on.

But if it floats your boat go for it.

For us guys in the rust/snow belt, with young kids, in the country, with a decent commute, I came to the same conclusion. A nice 3 series is probably not worth the trouble/aggravation trying to keep it nice, plus its a pain to get serviced locally and needs premium gas, expensive tires, blah blah blah... As a 3rd car, sure why not, but I rather have a S/C Miata or some thing to race/toy with.
After kids, then I can see getting something nicer, but to thrash to work everyday and carve the few nice corners, then pick up the sandy kids from daycare, an Accord sport would be just fine.

 

[surfstar]

I guess it depends on whether you are driving somewhere to have fun, or if the driving is supposed to be the fun part. 99% of my driving isn't fun, so buying a "fun to drive" car would be a very poor choice.

If you are buying a BMW to try and make your commute to work more enjoyable, my opinion is to buy a used Accord/appliance, save and invest the difference, and retire earlier so you don't have to make that [censored] commute!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
If you are buying a BMW to try and make your commute to work more enjoyable, my opinion is to buy a used Accord/appliance, save and invest the difference, and retire earlier so you don't have to make that [censored] commute!

Sounds great in theory. Sometimes life does not work out this way and by the time you retire, you may not be in a position to fully enjoy that nice car. So, if the finances allow, I'd say enjoy it now while you still can.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: LexAtlanta
I am not in a high income bracket and need whatever I buy to be basically trouble free.

Which 10 year old car is going to be trouble free?

While the answer to this question is obviously "none", IME this BMW will statistically require more TLC and $ than others in order to remain in tip-top shape.

Specific areas of concern for an E46: rear subframe damage, cooling system issues (that can take out the whole engine if you don't catch it quickly).

If you still want to buy one, here's a checklist for you:
http://www.edgemotorworks.com/E46-Series-3

 

[mcrn]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: geeman789

Does ANY 10+ year old car DRIVE nice... really..?


Yes. My M5 still has the original suspension minus a tie-rod end. It now has a noisy strut bushing on the drivers front but other than that the damping is still fine with the OE units on all four corners.


I also own a car that is almost 10 years old and has 100k miles on it and still drives perfectly. Just had the old girl up in the air and gave her a full checkout of the chassis. The only parts that were worn are the brake pads, every suspension component is tight and the steering was, too.

Bilsteins in the front and Nivomats in the rear must mean a lifetime suspension...



I didn't know that car came with Nivomats.....are they made by Bilstein? I had Nivomats on a Yukon I used to have. Those were not as durable as bilsteins I had put on an older Benz.

 

[Corvette Owner]

Found this in another thread

Try buying a used BMW. I'm about 400 miles into owning a '00 540iT and it has produced the following failures:

New Failures:
Air springs, $400
Window Regulator $62.50

Preexisting conditions:
Hatch springs, all 4 $150
all filters and oil $125
Empty Gas tank $65
Some sort of suspension clunk (not fixed yet, probably a few hundred in parts)
No 2nd key ($165 when i get that done)

It was cheap, and its a fun car, but i expect something to break every time i drive it.

 

[d00df00d]

That list suggests more about the poster than about the car, let alone the brand generally.

 

[Fleetmon]

My commute IS more enjoyable because of the BMW. I don't work because I have to, I work because I want to. However, since I want to work, I also want to make good money doing it.....there is not a company within 75 miles of me that will pay as well as my current employer does.

With that said, I will own BMW's until my dying days...."when they pry my cold dead fingers off of the steering wheel".

I repeat....BMW, either you get it or you don't!

 

[Lolvoguy]

The few days a year I have plates on my e30, the commute to work is a pure JOY! Sure it swills down petrol like a mid 80's Mustang 5.0, but the thrill of CONTROLLED rear end slides in traffic is unmatched by my daily driver, an 07 Focus

But there's always something going wrong with it. Mostly oil leaks. Thankfully I've finally addressed all suspension and cooling issues.

Sure beats making monthly payments on a new car, not to mention higher insurance rates too!

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Funny -- this exact idea is what makes me and most of my friends laugh at the idea of buying a brand new Accord/Camry. I.e., why buy something that utterly boring to drive when you could have something like a NICE used E46 for the same price?


Exactly!!!

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: LexAtlanta
I am not in a high income bracket and need whatever I buy to be basically trouble free.

Which 10 year old car is going to be trouble free?

While the answer to this question is obviously "none", IME this BMW will statistically require more TLC and $ than others in order to remain in tip-top shape.

Specific areas of concern for an E46: rear subframe damage, cooling system issues (that can take out the whole engine if you don't catch it quickly).

If you still want to buy one, here's a checklist for you:
http://www.edgemotorworks.com/E46-Series-3


X2.

If you NEED the car to be basically trouble free, I would probably shop something other than 10 year old BMWs, and probably something other than 10 year old cars in general.

Not that these can't be basically trouble free, but the potential for a repair to blow your budget is higher. Especially if neglected, which most of the cars you look at will be. A LOT of these cars were purchased simply for the badge, and were treated like any Honda, Hyundai, whatever.

One of my friends had a 2000 325i automatic. He overheated the engine when the water pump went out. Got a new engine in it. Then sometime later on, the transmission warning lamp would come on, and the car wouldn't want to shift. I don't know what the cause of that light was, or how much it would have cost to repair as the car totaled itself on a pothole before ever getting diagnosed. My friend hit a pothole doing maybe 40-45 MPH, and the airbags blew. All of them. No body damage to the car. This apparently is not an unheard of issue with the E46, just not common enough for them to be recalled or catch any real scrutiny for it. With a more careful, concerned owner, the engine and transmission problems might have been avoidable, at least as far as the extent of the damage done. Either way, for someone like my friend who wants a nice car, but doesn't want to be a car guy, a Lexus ES probably would have been a better practical choice since it doesn't require any real special care beyond what a V6 Camry would need. My friend likes cars that drive nice though, and all he looked at to replace the BMW was other RWD German cars. To his credit, he knows he's asking for trouble since he doesn't do any maintenance himself and lets things go, but to him, it's still worth it to not drive a boring car. He replaced the 325i with a C230, which hasn't been an angel either. It needed an alternator right off the bat (at four years old) and consumes enough oil to smoke. The smoking started before it had 50K mi on it! Both of his German cars are/were kind of fun to drive when working, even having automatics, but they constantly need some sort of attention, and when they don't get it, something breaks. My friend can afford to play this game over and over again though, have his toys, then dump them when the problems pile up. It sounds like this is not what you are looking for.

If you still want an E46, go for the most documented one you can find. I would want to see very thorough maintenance records, including brand/specs for fluids used. Find one from an owner who cared about it...note that my friend with the 325i and C230 likes these cars, but does not care about them at all. He would be hard pressed to dig up any kind of receipt and can't tell you the last time an oil change was done.

Just my opinion, but the fact that "trouble free" is a high priority makes me think this is the wrong kind of car for you to be looking at.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: geeman789


Does ANY 10+ year old car DRIVE nice... really..?


Lets see...

My 140k mile 1995 Club Sport's suspension has only needed one set of lower control arm bushings. Other than that, all I've replaced is a thermostat, a brake light switch, and a heater hose fitting. And, since it's a track rat, a set of rotors and pads.

No suspension work on the 165k mile 2004 X3 either- I rebuilt the cooling system and vapor separator around 140k as well as the DISA at 150k. Other than that 2 sets of pads and one set of rotors.