Mobil 1 0W-40 Current PDS
- Thread starter JAG
- Start date
- Status
One thing that is disheartening is that on here you will never see complete agreement on any one oil. It is always, this one is better, this one does the same for less, etc, etc.
This is one of the main reasons why I read this site for entertainment now.
I use Mobil 1 because it is easily available, has all the specs and seems to be a good oil.
The Pennzoil Euro is a myth as far as I am concerned. I have never seen that oil, nor has any of the local stores been able to get it for me.
Valvoline Syn 5w-40 was another one that ticked me off. Most stores used to carry it and about a year ago it just dissappeared from shelves. Napa probably still has it, but I have to go out of my way to get it.
Other stores wont even order it.
GC used to be a good choice and was easy to get, for me at least. Now that one is gone as well.
Mobil 1 is the choice for me. I will do an UOA on it, and unless the numbers are completely out of whack Im sticking with it.
Even the UOA discussions are getting kind of pointless.
I do appreciate the info, but I think sometimes it works against people, because you end up switching from one to the next and never get satisfaction.
This is one of the main reasons why I read this site for entertainment now.
I use Mobil 1 because it is easily available, has all the specs and seems to be a good oil.
The Pennzoil Euro is a myth as far as I am concerned. I have never seen that oil, nor has any of the local stores been able to get it for me.
Valvoline Syn 5w-40 was another one that ticked me off. Most stores used to carry it and about a year ago it just dissappeared from shelves. Napa probably still has it, but I have to go out of my way to get it.
Other stores wont even order it.
GC used to be a good choice and was easy to get, for me at least. Now that one is gone as well.
Mobil 1 is the choice for me. I will do an UOA on it, and unless the numbers are completely out of whack Im sticking with it.
Even the UOA discussions are getting kind of pointless.
I do appreciate the info, but I think sometimes it works against people, because you end up switching from one to the next and never get satisfaction.
In my neck of the woods, M1 0w-40 is no longer available anywhere. Walmart pulled it 6 months ago and it hasn't reappeared. You can still get Maxlife synthetic though. GC is starting to reappear again. Synpower 5w-40 is consistently available at the local Napa.
Originally Posted By: StoicDude
One thing that is disheartening is that on here you will never see complete agreement on any one oil.
I'm not sure why that would be disheartening. One who is stoic would normally be indifferent.
One thing that is disheartening is that on here you will never see complete agreement on any one oil.
I'm not sure why that would be disheartening. One who is stoic would normally be indifferent.
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
In my neck of the woods, M1 0w-40 is no longer available anywhere. Walmart pulled it 6 months ago and it hasn't reappeared. You can still get Maxlife synthetic though. GC is starting to reappear again. Synpower 5w-40 is consistently available at the local Napa.
I think the supply of M1 0W40 for Walmart is regional. Walmart in my city still have M1 0W40 available.
In my neck of the woods, M1 0w-40 is no longer available anywhere. Walmart pulled it 6 months ago and it hasn't reappeared. You can still get Maxlife synthetic though. GC is starting to reappear again. Synpower 5w-40 is consistently available at the local Napa.
I think the supply of M1 0W40 for Walmart is regional. Walmart in my city still have M1 0W40 available.
Quote:
These values are also upheld by Porsche and as a result the relationship has culminated in a number of impressive wins on the race track. The success on track proves the performance and protection the fully synthetic oil provides for the lubrication of the 400bhp engines of the race cars as well as for road cars.
Quote:
Porsche exclusively recommends Mobil 1 engine oil and every single Porsche is factory filled with Mobil 1 0W-40, exactly the same Mobil 1 used in the Carrera Cup and by your Porsche Dealer.
For an oil that shears and does shows higher Fe, I do wonder why Porsche uses M1 0w-40 on the track?? 0w-40 is more of an all climate type oil. Does anyone think that because the sump sizes are so large (9-14 qts) that it holds up ok? I would have thought they use a more shear stable oil, something similar to their 10w-40 MC racing oils.
These values are also upheld by Porsche and as a result the relationship has culminated in a number of impressive wins on the race track. The success on track proves the performance and protection the fully synthetic oil provides for the lubrication of the 400bhp engines of the race cars as well as for road cars.
Quote:
Porsche exclusively recommends Mobil 1 engine oil and every single Porsche is factory filled with Mobil 1 0W-40, exactly the same Mobil 1 used in the Carrera Cup and by your Porsche Dealer.
For an oil that shears and does shows higher Fe, I do wonder why Porsche uses M1 0w-40 on the track?? 0w-40 is more of an all climate type oil. Does anyone think that because the sump sizes are so large (9-14 qts) that it holds up ok? I would have thought they use a more shear stable oil, something similar to their 10w-40 MC racing oils.
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
Porsche 996FL Engine test. This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 µm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method. Several mechanics told me that they were relying on “their own testing” to choose an oil. None of these mechanics showed me that their method came close to matching what Porsche does: running dozens of oils through the same 203-hour test, and comparing the results.
I have some Havoline Full Synthetic 5W40 that is Porche approved. I paid much less for it than M1 0W40. Funny, Havoline synthetic has always been accused of being "weak" in the additive dept. by many here on BITOG but the 5W40 variant passed Porche's tests. Now either their tests are very easy to pass or the Havoline 5W40 synthetic is pretty good stuff. I wonder which??
Quote:
Porsche 996FL Engine test. This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 µm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method. Several mechanics told me that they were relying on “their own testing” to choose an oil. None of these mechanics showed me that their method came close to matching what Porsche does: running dozens of oils through the same 203-hour test, and comparing the results.
I have some Havoline Full Synthetic 5W40 that is Porche approved. I paid much less for it than M1 0W40. Funny, Havoline synthetic has always been accused of being "weak" in the additive dept. by many here on BITOG but the 5W40 variant passed Porche's tests. Now either their tests are very easy to pass or the Havoline 5W40 synthetic is pretty good stuff. I wonder which??
Hi,
Mokanic - Havoline's synthetic 5w-40 has been on Porsche's Approved oil List for about a decade
Some of the very best Group 3 "synthetics" are made via the Caltex-Havoline combine and have been for a very long time
Regards
Mokanic - Havoline's synthetic 5w-40 has been on Porsche's Approved oil List for about a decade
Some of the very best Group 3 "synthetics" are made via the Caltex-Havoline combine and have been for a very long time
Regards
Thanks for the reply. I always thought it strange that the oil was considered "weak" by some on here yet it has always had satified customers as well as Porche's approval at least for the 5W40. The 5W30 that
I have is Corvette approved. Perhaps their tests are easy to pass as well.
This is an update to an old thread. The PDS has been updated, showing a few new oil specs that it has been approved to or recommended for.
NISSAN GT-R has been added.
Porsche A40 has replaced Porsche Special Oil List.
The 3 FIAT specs are applications that they recommended the oil be used in:
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - M2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - N2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - Z2
The oil's Typical Properties have NOT changed at all.
I couldn't find anything online about what Porsche A40 entails. Does anyone know?
NISSAN GT-R has been added.
Porsche A40 has replaced Porsche Special Oil List.
The 3 FIAT specs are applications that they recommended the oil be used in:
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - M2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - N2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - Z2
The oil's Typical Properties have NOT changed at all.
I couldn't find anything online about what Porsche A40 entails. Does anyone know?
So what is the new pour point?
Data is "missing".... This is supposed to be their flagship
euro oil.
No longer -54°C?
flash point is now lower... VI dropped a bit.
Somebody explain to me how this is an improved formulation?
Data is "missing".... This is supposed to be their flagship
euro oil.
No longer -54°C?
flash point is now lower... VI dropped a bit.
Somebody explain to me how this is an improved formulation?
The Pennzoil Euro 5W-40 is rebranded Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40, and the Q Horsepower 5W-40 is an identical oil.
Chevron Supreme and Texaco Havoline 5W-40 are the same oil.
Pennzoil Platinum/Q HorsePower and Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 are the same oil.
Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 HST is a comparable oil to these.
Mobil 1 0W-40 is the same blend worldwide.
Is Castrol Syntec 5W-40 still "Belgian" Castrol TXT Softec or is this a US specific formulation?
Heck, there is even Kendall GT-1 European Formula 5W-40 which is Porsche approved. There's a lot of blends out there, but I don't know how easy they are to get a hold of.
Chevron Supreme and Texaco Havoline 5W-40 are the same oil.
Pennzoil Platinum/Q HorsePower and Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 are the same oil.
Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 HST is a comparable oil to these.
Mobil 1 0W-40 is the same blend worldwide.
Is Castrol Syntec 5W-40 still "Belgian" Castrol TXT Softec or is this a US specific formulation?
Heck, there is even Kendall GT-1 European Formula 5W-40 which is Porsche approved. There's a lot of blends out there, but I don't know how easy they are to get a hold of.
Originally Posted By: ilikeguns
So what is the new pour point?
Data is "missing".... This is supposed to be their flagship
euro oil.
No longer -54°C?
flash point is now lower... VI dropped a bit.
Somebody explain to me how this is an improved formulation?
I for one don't call it improved. Since Japanese MSDSs show that this oil uses a large % of slack wax derived Group III and a dash of keresone is present in it, I consider it a very strange oil.
MSDS searches to find pour point reveal that the shown pour point cannot be trusted because the viscosities don't agree with the product data sheets! But pour point measurements are not highly accurate while MRV measurements are, which is now shown on the PDS. MRV measurements are much more relevant for engines anyhow.
What past VI and flash points are you referring to?
So what is the new pour point?
Data is "missing".... This is supposed to be their flagship
euro oil.
No longer -54°C?
flash point is now lower... VI dropped a bit.
Somebody explain to me how this is an improved formulation?
I for one don't call it improved. Since Japanese MSDSs show that this oil uses a large % of slack wax derived Group III and a dash of keresone is present in it, I consider it a very strange oil.
MSDS searches to find pour point reveal that the shown pour point cannot be trusted because the viscosities don't agree with the product data sheets! But pour point measurements are not highly accurate while MRV measurements are, which is now shown on the PDS. MRV measurements are much more relevant for engines anyhow.
What past VI and flash points are you referring to?
This from page 6, of this thread:
Spezifikationen/Freigaben
Mobil 1 0W-40 erfüllt die Spezifikationen:
ACEA A3,B3,B4
API SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF3
Mobil 1 0W-40 ist freigegeben gemäß:
BMW LL-01
Daimler Chrysler 229.3/229.5
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
Opel Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
Porsche Approved
Volkswagen 502.00/505.00,503.01
Typische Produktdaten
Mobil 1 0W-40
SAE Klasse 0W-40
Viskosität, ASTM D 445
mm²/s bei 40ºC 80
mm²/s bei 100ºC 14,3
Viskosität sindex, ASTM D 2270 187
Sulfatasche, wt%, ASTM D 874 1,2
HTHS Viskosität, mPas bei 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 3,6
Pourpoint, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flammpunkt, ºC, ASTM D 92 236
Dichte bei 15ºC, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0,855
Spezifikationen/Freigaben
Mobil 1 0W-40 erfüllt die Spezifikationen:
ACEA A3,B3,B4
API SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF3
Mobil 1 0W-40 ist freigegeben gemäß:
BMW LL-01
Daimler Chrysler 229.3/229.5
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
Opel Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
Porsche Approved
Volkswagen 502.00/505.00,503.01
Typische Produktdaten
Mobil 1 0W-40
SAE Klasse 0W-40
Viskosität, ASTM D 445
mm²/s bei 40ºC 80
mm²/s bei 100ºC 14,3
Viskosität sindex, ASTM D 2270 187
Sulfatasche, wt%, ASTM D 874 1,2
HTHS Viskosität, mPas bei 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 3,6
Pourpoint, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flammpunkt, ºC, ASTM D 92 236
Dichte bei 15ºC, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0,855
Ok. Those are small differences. Other small differences, but for the better on the new specs, are that the kinematic viscosities at 40C and 100C have gone down slightly while HTHS viscosity has gone up slightly. So either less polymeric VIIs are used or there are less of them.
So the physical properties have not changed much. I'm just amazed that this oil uses a large % of Group III. The undisclosed fluids (PAO for sure, esters maybe, alkylated napthalene maybe) in the Japanese MSDS must really be something for this oil to be a 0W oil while still meeting the volatility requirement of MB 229.5 (10% IIRC). An industry presentation stated that 0W oils meeting MB 229.5 cannot be made using Group III as the base oil because of the cold viscometric and volatility conflicting requirements. I guess that assumed that no correction fluids (Group IV and V) would be used, so M1 0W-40 doesn't actually defy their statement.
So the physical properties have not changed much. I'm just amazed that this oil uses a large % of Group III. The undisclosed fluids (PAO for sure, esters maybe, alkylated napthalene maybe) in the Japanese MSDS must really be something for this oil to be a 0W oil while still meeting the volatility requirement of MB 229.5 (10% IIRC). An industry presentation stated that 0W oils meeting MB 229.5 cannot be made using Group III as the base oil because of the cold viscometric and volatility conflicting requirements. I guess that assumed that no correction fluids (Group IV and V) would be used, so M1 0W-40 doesn't actually defy their statement.
Originally Posted By: buster
According to many of the MSDS's, pour points are a lot lower in several grades including M1 5w30 @ -33F.
You mean higher, right?
According to many of the MSDS's, pour points are a lot lower in several grades including M1 5w30 @ -33F.
You mean higher, right?
Yeah. As someone on Noria recently said, it's not really a good time to be judging some of these recent data sheets.
http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/7851063282?r=49710888#49710888
Quote:
Katrina & Rita hit the refining end of the business hard. Ike got less attention, but that storm had a very severe impact on the lube business. PAO is very short in the whole industry, still. Lots of suppliers are reformulating on the fly, partiall substituting Grp III & boosting the AO to compensate. Of necessity, this is not being done in the usual anal-retentive, by-the-numbers style that the product development function prefers. Right now is an inopportune time to make a long-term judgement of an oil's (or supplier's) quality based on what's currently on the shelf.
http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/7851063282?r=49710888#49710888
Quote:
Katrina & Rita hit the refining end of the business hard. Ike got less attention, but that storm had a very severe impact on the lube business. PAO is very short in the whole industry, still. Lots of suppliers are reformulating on the fly, partiall substituting Grp III & boosting the AO to compensate. Of necessity, this is not being done in the usual anal-retentive, by-the-numbers style that the product development function prefers. Right now is an inopportune time to make a long-term judgement of an oil's (or supplier's) quality based on what's currently on the shelf.
- Status
