Joined the dark side-second OCI on a filter

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: daman
I would have at least removed the filter drained it good then reinstalled it,thats what i do with my NP that I'm running two OCI with.

there's allot of dirty oil still in a installed filter.


There is ten times the amount of engine wear caused by one Dry Start as there is from the 10% residual oil left behind by not removing the filter and draining it. Probably significantly more than that.
Dry starts are the single most damaging event in an engines life.

Honda (and others) don't recommend changing the oil filter every other time to save the owner the cost of a filter. They recommend it to save the engine the cost of twice as many dry starts.


But you can virtually eliminate dry starts by simply pouring fresh oil into the filter, then installing it. I don't get why so many places don't do this.
Try pouring fresh oil into a filter mounted base down.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
i never run any filter once anymore, most filters are good for atleasat 7.5k miles...


i use them 2 or 3 times before switching out for a new one...then again i used pureone filters.

you have higher chance of engine failure if you replace filters more often, filters can come defective.


What if that filter you run 3 times was defective when new and it wasn't filtering well due to media leakage. Since it was left on 3 times, it would have been like getting 3 bad filters in a row. What are the chances of actually getting 3 filters in a row that are defective ... I'd say real close to zero. But if that one filter was defective and ran 3 times, then you've just recreated the near impossible.
+1

 

[uart]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

What if that filter you run 3 times was defective when new and it wasn't filtering well due to media leakage. Since it was left on 3 times, it would have been like getting 3 bad filters in a row. What are the chances of actually getting 3 filters in a row that are defective ... I'd say real close to zero. But if that one filter was defective and ran 3 times, then you've just recreated the near impossible.
+1

-1

Sorry guys, but there's a misunderstanding of probability going on here. If we're talking about undetected faults then statistically it makes no difference if you change the filter every 5 minutes or every 5 years. In the long run you're going to have a faulty filter in there for the exact same period of time in either case.

For example, if you change your filter twice as often, then in the long run you'll install twice as many faulty filters, each one run for half the amount of time. Net result, exact same time on a faulty filter.

Now at this point you're thinking, yeah but if the probability of getting a dud filter is small then chances of getting more than one is miniscule, so in effect the "long run" may never occur. Again however, statistically it's a wash, because the person doing the less frequent filter changes now has a lower probability of even getting just the one faulty filter in the first place. In know that some people still wont get this, but trust me on this, statistically it makes no difference either way.

 

[electrolover]

The one fault in all the reasoning behind running a filter multiple times is that your not taking readings for pressure difference across the filter. So in reality you really dont know if its getting loaded and going into bypass. Worst case scenario the second or third time you run your filter its not filtering the oil at all. I know most quality filters have higher capacity but your still going in blind.

Like I said before...why not just run an oci that gets the most out of your oil and filter?? And then change them both..

But thats just my opinion.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I'm approaching 20K miles on an oversized Purolator Classic and will cut it open and take pictures off a 2007 Civic. I have a Fumoto valve on the oil pan so I do drain / refill but I don't touch the filter.

There is no harm doing multiple OCI's (I did 3) if the engine is spotless inside... especially if I am using quality oil.




Cant wait to see those pics!!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: uart
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

What if that filter you run 3 times was defective when new and it wasn't filtering well due to media leakage. Since it was left on 3 times, it would have been like getting 3 bad filters in a row. What are the chances of actually getting 3 filters in a row that are defective ... I'd say real close to zero. But if that one filter was defective and ran 3 times, then you've just recreated the near impossible.
+1

-1

Sorry guys, but there's a misunderstanding of probability going on here. If we're talking about undetected faults then statistically it makes no difference if you change the filter every 5 minutes or every 5 years. In the long run you're going to have a faulty filter in there for the exact same period of time in either case.


Not sure I'm getting your theory. I'll try to show my viewpoint with an example. Let's say you have a car that you typically changed the oil & filter every 3 months. Then you decided to keep changing oil every 3 months, but only change the filter every year instead ... so now you're running the same oil filter for 4 OCIs.

Assume all filters you buy have the same chance of having a flaw when new. Assume that you have bought 4 filters to use, and you got unlucky and 1 of the 4 was bad.

If you changed the filter every oil change, then the worst case scenario is that you would only be running a bad filter for 3 months. If you changed the filter every year, then you would be running the bad filter for a year.

If using the filters for 3 month OCIs, it would take a year to use all 4, and in that year you would have ran a defective filter for only 3 months. If using the filters for 1 year OCIs, it would take 4 years to use all 4, and in that 4 year period you would have ran a defective filter for a whole year. Which senario would you rather have? I know when I cut open a filter after a 5K mile OCI and found it had torn media, I was really glad I didn't leave it on for another 5K mile OCI.

In order to repeat the case of running a bad filter for a year when changing the filter every time at 3 months, you would have to buy 4 bad filters in a row. What are the chances of that happening? I'd say really close to zero.

So my viewpoint is that changing filters every OCI helps reduce the chance of running a flawed oil filter any longer than one OCI, which would be the minimum time it would ever be used if it was flawed.

 

[teddyboy]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I drained the oil from the Forester yesterday.
The engine had about 5K on the Synpower I drained.
The oil filter was (and is) a Bosch D+.
I figured that the D+ was a well constructed synthetic media filter, with ample holding capacity, and is intended for long drains.
I left the D+ on the engine and refilled the crankcase with another round of Synpower 5W-30.
I've never used a filter for more than one OCI before, but it seems to make sense to get more use from this oil filter, even if it did cost only ~$3.50 after AAP coupon code and MIR.
This seemed a sensible (and easy) choice.


It's a steep and slippery slope on the way to wearing your socks two days between launderings.

 

[fdcg27]

I had a nice warm, dry day to change the oil.
We might not have seen another for some time.
I have a UOA of Synpower SM from this car, and TBN was ~2.2 after 5K, so I don't feel comfortable running Synpower much beyond 5K.
The oil filter is a different matter, and the BD+ is well enough constructed and has enough holding capacity for 10K of use on this engine, which is mature and should be internally clean. The longest I've run any oil in this engine was the 6K interval I used for a few runs of GC.
What I'm trying to convey here is that the Synpower probably had relatively little life left at 5K, while the BD+ was well within its operating life.
For all I know, though, the Synpower might have stayed around the same TBN figure for many miles to come.
I find it ironic that Subaru will allow the use of any API SL or SM oil in this engine for 7.5K, but would be concerned with the use of a high end filter for 10K.