Is Subaru now an after thought company?

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Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
A head gasket is not routine maintenance! Maybe on Subaru's and some Hondas (or so I understand) but otherwise no.


That's correct -- it's not in the maintenance schedule. (Wheel bearings, struts, etc aren't either but I may be wrong.) In any event, the HG job was the biggest expense for all of my Subaru repairs after you add up parts, labor, machine shop charge, etc. Pretty common for 2002 and earlier Foresters at 10+ years or 100K+ miles.
 
Is there any fix for the Subaru head gasket issues?

I know on a Ford 6.0 diesel, you can upgrade to head studs and o-ringed heads. This combined with a few emissions/cooling system upgrades pretty much eliminates the problem. Is anything like this or a better gasket available for the Subaru motors or do you just keep replacing head gaskets?
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Is there any fix for the Subaru head gasket issues?

I know on a Ford 6.0 diesel, you can upgrade to head studs and o-ringed heads. This combined with a few emissions/cooling system upgrades pretty much eliminates the problem. Is anything like this or a better gasket available for the Subaru motors or do you just keep replacing head gaskets?



10 years ago when I was still working at the Subaru dealer, our lead tech swore up and down proper prep of the mating surfaces, and OEM STi gaskets were 'the' fix. The other fix is flush the coolant every 30k, and use Subaru cooling system conditioner.
 
So many different vehicles now offer AWD, why get saddled with a Subie? I had one and liked it (a turbo 4), but it wasn't the greatest.
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_T
So many different vehicles now offer AWD, why get saddled with a Subie? I had one and liked it (a turbo 4), but it wasn't the greatest.


AWD and manual transmission (not 4x4) is impossible elsewhere
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Is there any fix for the Subaru head gasket issues?


Yes. Buy one with the current FB20/25 or FA20 engines, which have redesigned cylinder heads.

As for oil consumption, Subaru have made at least two changes to the FB engine design, and oil consumption seems to be rare in 2015s. The only 2015 owners I've seen report it have manual 2.5 Foresters. Never seems to have been a problem with the FA20 engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_T
So many different vehicles now offer AWD, why get saddled with a Subie? I had one and liked it (a turbo 4), but it wasn't the greatest.


Because it is an awesome AWD!
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_T
So many different vehicles now offer AWD, why get saddled with a Subie? I had one and liked it (a turbo 4), but it wasn't the greatest.


Because Subaru is full-time AWD, whereas most (all?) of the competitors in their price range are FWD vehicles with a part-time rear drive bolted on. There are better AWD systems around, but they're either on more dedicated off-road vehicles like Jeeps, or much more expensive on-road vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Interesting thread, and it made me look at "truedelta dot comm" for reliability information.

I was quite surprised to find that Subaru's prior to 2009 were nearly universally unreliable. Worse, than that, many of the reported repairs involved major components such as engine and transmission.

In fact, in some less reliable models, over half of major repairs involved engine, transmission, drivetrain, brakes and suspension.


yup, i had a 2000 legacy with engine knock and HG leak. There were like 10 recalls in first 3 years, both diff fluids looked like silver paint at 40,000 miles and the H4 engine gulped gas at the rate of V6. i was very glad it got totaled at 60000.

PS:
one time i drove the whole family in bad weather on a hwy and the car fishtailed on a curve and we went backwards unto the snowy bank. scary to say the least, but we made it with no injuries. later I learned that this was typical for subaru AWD. they don't tell you in their commercials. i guess it's good for rally driving.
 
The entire premise of the OP is flawed. He/she makes it sound as though Subaru is the only auto manufacturer that has less than perfect cars, and that based upon the flaws of Subaru cars, their sales will dwindle down to nothing. Yet Subaru continues to set record breaking sales, year after year. More consistent growth in the last 10 or 15 years than any other auto manufacturer.

There is not an auto manufacturer that does not make bad product. Honda puts bad transmissions in the Odyssey, yet they still sell vans. The modular Ford truck engine from the late '90's and early 2000's were notorious for blown head gaskets. And Ford recalled over 11 million trucks for cruise control modules that caught on fire. But Ford continues to sell more trucks than anyone else. GM pulled a major screw up with the ignition switch issue. They still set record sales in '14. Chrysler. Well, Chrysler just builds [censored]. They have for 40 years. But they are still in business. Volkswagen has some of the worst electrical quality issues around. Yet they are only thousands away from selling more cars in the world than anyone else.

The OP also greatly exaggerates the oil burning issue. The issue is only related to the FB engine. The OP claims that the new Legacy (I'm assuming he means the '15 Legacy) still has oil burning issues. This is interesting news, as all discussions I have seen about the '15 Legacy and Outback FB, says that oil burning claims are no more common than any other car.

But, hey. Any time you poke a stick at a car that has some of the most loyal owners of any auto nameplate, and also has a lot of haters, you are going to get a lot of discussion. Me thinks that was the purpose of this post. A modern day version of poking the hornet's nest.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Ed_T
So many different vehicles now offer AWD, why get saddled with a Subie? I had one and liked it (a turbo 4), but it wasn't the greatest.


Because it is an awesome AWD!


Subaru AWD is the "poor mans" AWD. Get an Audi Quattro
 
Originally Posted By: BHopkins
The entire premise of the OP is flawed. He/she makes it sound as though Subaru is the only auto manufacturer that has less than perfect cars, and that based upon the flaws of Subaru cars, their sales will dwindle down to nothing. Yet Subaru continues to set record breaking sales, year after year. More consistent growth in the last 10 or 15 years than any other auto manufacturer.

There is not an auto manufacturer that does not make bad product. Honda puts bad transmissions in the Odyssey, yet they still sell vans. The modular Ford truck engine from the late '90's and early 2000's were notorious for blown head gaskets. And Ford recalled over 11 million trucks for cruise control modules that caught on fire. But Ford continues to sell more trucks than anyone else. GM pulled a major screw up with the ignition switch issue. They still set record sales in '14. Chrysler. Well, Chrysler just builds [censored]. They have for 40 years. But they are still in business. Volkswagen has some of the worst electrical quality issues around. Yet they are only thousands away from selling more cars in the world than anyone else.

The OP also greatly exaggerates the oil burning issue. The issue is only related to the FB engine. The OP claims that the new Legacy (I'm assuming he means the '15 Legacy) still has oil burning issues. This is interesting news, as all discussions I have seen about the '15 Legacy and Outback FB, says that oil burning claims are no more common than any other car.

But, hey. Any time you poke a stick at a car that has some of the most loyal owners of any auto nameplate, and also has a lot of haters, you are going to get a lot of discussion. Me thinks that was the purpose of this post. A modern day version of poking the hornet's nest.


Let's get the facts straight shall we? Subaru has consistently had bad component suppliers and for you to say that I'm over exaggerating the oil consumption issue is asinine. There clearly is a BIG problem with the new FB series of engines. The FA seems to be ok, but not much is known about it because it is found only in the BRZ/FRS. The new WRX has a FA20 with turbo.

Here's ACTUAL proof that there is a problem.

Oil consumption: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2690656
2015 WRX ECU issues: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2626933
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/general-ma...ne-light-5.html

Transmission: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Subaru/WRX/2015/transmission/

It's funny that you even bring Honda into this discussion. Honda's model lineup is vast compared to Subaru. A faulty transmission is fine if it's the only problem plaguing the vehicle. Subaru seems to have an entire list of problems per vehicle.

I won't even bring up the BRZ because that's another travesty with it's bad drive train and motor.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Interesting thread, and it made me look at "truedelta dot comm" for reliability information.

I was quite surprised to find that Subaru's prior to 2009 were nearly universally unreliable. Worse, than that, many of the reported repairs involved major components such as engine and transmission.

In fact, in some less reliable models, over half of major repairs involved engine, transmission, drivetrain, brakes and suspension.


yup, i had a 2000 legacy with engine knock and HG leak. There were like 10 recalls in first 3 years, both diff fluids looked like silver paint at 40,000 miles and the H4 engine gulped gas at the rate of V6. i was very glad it got totaled at 60000.

PS:
one time i drove the whole family in bad weather on a hwy and the car fishtailed on a curve and we went backwards unto the snowy bank. scary to say the least, but we made it with no injuries. later I learned that this was typical for subaru AWD. they don't tell you in their commercials. i guess it's good for rally driving.


Common? No I don't think so. Subaru AWD is highly reliable and I have never heard an example like your story unless running on junk tires.
 
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Ed_T
So many different vehicles now offer AWD, why get saddled with a Subie? I had one and liked it (a turbo 4), but it wasn't the greatest.


Because it is an awesome AWD!

Subaru AWD is the "poor mans" AWD. Get an Audi Quattro


Why? People who shop for Subaru aren't looking to waste money on a luxury brand.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Common? No I don't think so. Subaru AWD is highly reliable and I have never heard an example like your story unless running on junk tires.


There was the 'ghostwalking' problem with US Outback models, which appears to be due to Subaru America raising the suspension an inch or two for the US market, which made the wheel alignment shift under load until the car became liable to fishtail on poor road surfaces when heavily loaded. Beyond that, any AWD system is at least partially RWD, so you can certainly get it to do things that you wouldn't see on an FWD car... usually when driving too fast for the conditions, though.
 
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
Originally Posted By: BHopkins
The entire premise of the OP is flawed. He/she makes it sound as though Subaru is the only auto manufacturer that has less than perfect cars, and that based upon the flaws of Subaru cars, their sales will dwindle down to nothing. Yet Subaru continues to set record breaking sales, year after year. More consistent growth in the last 10 or 15 years than any other auto manufacturer.

There is not an auto manufacturer that does not make bad product. Honda puts bad transmissions in the Odyssey, yet they still sell vans. The modular Ford truck engine from the late '90's and early 2000's were notorious for blown head gaskets. And Ford recalled over 11 million trucks for cruise control modules that caught on fire. But Ford continues to sell more trucks than anyone else. GM pulled a major screw up with the ignition switch issue. They still set record sales in '14. Chrysler. Well, Chrysler just builds [censored]. They have for 40 years. But they are still in business. Volkswagen has some of the worst electrical quality issues around. Yet they are only thousands away from selling more cars in the world than anyone else.

The OP also greatly exaggerates the oil burning issue. The issue is only related to the FB engine. The OP claims that the new Legacy (I'm assuming he means the '15 Legacy) still has oil burning issues. This is interesting news, as all discussions I have seen about the '15 Legacy and Outback FB, says that oil burning claims are no more common than any other car.

But, hey. Any time you poke a stick at a car that has some of the most loyal owners of any auto nameplate, and also has a lot of haters, you are going to get a lot of discussion. Me thinks that was the purpose of this post. A modern day version of poking the hornet's nest.


Let's get the facts straight shall we? Subaru has consistently had bad component suppliers and for you to say that I'm over exaggerating the oil consumption issue is asinine. There clearly is a BIG problem with the new FB series of engines. The FA seems to be ok, but not much is known about it because it is found only in the BRZ/FRS. The new WRX has a FA20 with turbo.

Here's ACTUAL proof that there is a problem.

Oil consumption: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2690656
2015 WRX ECU issues: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2626933
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/general-ma...ne-light-5.html

Transmission: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Subaru/WRX/2015/transmission/

It's funny that you even bring Honda into this discussion. Honda's model lineup is vast compared to Subaru. A faulty transmission is fine if it's the only problem plaguing the vehicle. Subaru seems to have an entire list of problems per vehicle.

I won't even bring up the BRZ because that's another travesty with it's bad drive train and motor.


Yes some Subaru's have oil consumption problems. This is well documented. What many take issue with is calling it a major issue as in a high percentage have the problem. I have seen no proof that the problem affects a high percentage. And no, a survey on a website doesn't count as it drastically skews the results toward the negative.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Interesting thread, and it made me look at "truedelta dot comm" for reliability information.

I was quite surprised to find that Subaru's prior to 2009 were nearly universally unreliable. Worse, than that, many of the reported repairs involved major components such as engine and transmission.

In fact, in some less reliable models, over half of major repairs involved engine, transmission, drivetrain, brakes and suspension.


yup, i had a 2000 legacy with engine knock and HG leak. There were like 10 recalls in first 3 years, both diff fluids looked like silver paint at 40,000 miles and the H4 engine gulped gas at the rate of V6. i was very glad it got totaled at 60000.

PS:
one time i drove the whole family in bad weather on a hwy and the car fishtailed on a curve and we went backwards unto the snowy bank. scary to say the least, but we made it with no injuries. later I learned that this was typical for subaru AWD. they don't tell you in their commercials. i guess it's good for rally driving.


Common? No I don't think so. Subaru AWD is highly reliable and I have never heard an example like your story unless running on junk tires.


The best AWD system on the planet can't overcome the laws of physics.
 
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Ed_T
So many different vehicles now offer AWD, why get saddled with a Subie? I had one and liked it (a turbo 4), but it wasn't the greatest.


Because it is an awesome AWD!


Subaru AWD is the "poor mans" AWD. Get an Audi Quattro


How "rich" do you have to be to buy an Audi Quattro? Production ended in 1991
 
To address the original question of the OP. "What has happened to Subaru"??

"Subaru and Lexus took the top spots in Kelley Blue Book's 2015 Best Resale Value Awards, which give the honor to vehicles projected to retain the most value through their first five years of ownership.

Subaru was named best overall brand and Lexus was best luxury brand."

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2015/01/subaru_lexus_top_kelley_blue_b.html
 
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