Reliable years of Subaru Outback?

[IndyIan]

Was it CVT models that started the blue WARNING-THE-ENGINE-IS-COLD temp light?

I always thought that was a backwards feature -- normally we're most concerned with an overheat condition.

There's no cold warnings in ours, but it does use some strategies to warm up the trans and engine quickly like unlocking the TC when you demand full heat before the engine is getting warm. I think in -20C it would go a mile or two with the TC unlocked? I guess lots of vehicles do this now, but its our first.

Nearly 100K/5 years, >2x stock power for the majority of that time/mileage, a lot of track time, beating, drag racing, etc. Just did a compression test.....180/178/177/180. No oil consumption. These MQB VWs/ea888.3 engines are really stout. Drives like it's new.
View attachment 182045

Sounds good, I was kind of considering one, but VW Canada was too chicken to put any tow rating at all on it...

 

[D60]

There's no cold warnings in ours, but it does use some strategies to warm up the trans and engine quickly like unlocking the TC when you demand full heat before the engine is getting warm. I think in -20C it would go a mile or two with the TC unlocked? I guess lots of vehicles do this now, but its our first.

Sounds good, I was kind of considering one, but VW Canada was too chicken to put any tow rating at all on it...

Copy. The '14 and '15 Foresters I service have the blue thermometer light. Maybe it started with the SJ's....I could do a web search if I cared enough

 

[TiGeo]

There's no cold warnings in ours, but it does use some strategies to warm up the trans and engine quickly like unlocking the TC when you demand full heat before the engine is getting warm. I think in -20C it would go a mile or two with the TC unlocked? I guess lots of vehicles do this now, but its our first.

Sounds good, I was kind of considering one, but VW Canada was too chicken to put any tow rating at all on it...

In Europe, they have one/hitch etc. I would just go off that.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I haven't seen a reply from OP. No clue on price range or other wants/needs.

You can get an Accord up to I think '20 or '21 in manual. I have a '17 Accord LX 6MT. One nice thing is that it also has a slight delay hill hold for the brakes. Helps with those learning or not quicker on hills. My kids learned to drive stick in my '07 Sonata 5MT. The drive by wire on that was not great. I used to stall randomly, it was very weird, I've been driving stick over 40 years.

The Accord is great. 2.4L non turbo, room for 4 comfortably, gets over 30mpg average and up to 40 highway. I can go almost 600 miles on a tank on trips. Both my kids said the Accord is MUCH easier to drive and learn stick as compared to old Sonata. My son steals it for trips all the time.

Granted Accord is more boring and not high powered BUT if new driver great to learn on also. Civics are good also. My kids (and everyone) wants new high power sporty until insurance and reality. Older Mazda CX-5's came in stick also I think to 2015. I like the small SUV's for sitting higher visibility, AWD is a bonus if needed. My FWD cars with winter tires went places AWD on all seasons didn't. Ground clearance being the issue.

For OP- look at STREETSURVIVAL.ORG for skills also, highly recommended. I have other posts with links to my google pictures/videos. You use the car they will drive on wet skid pad, emergency braking (ABS), emergency lane change etc. Not your regular drivers ed class. My son did it in the 5MT Sonata with and without stability control on. He and his GF did it in the hand me down CRV. My daughter did it in her CRV. Beats the tires a bit but those are easy to replace.

The other thing to think is where they are driving with other new kids. My son's old CRV and his current 2010 Forte have many little scratches/scuffs on the corners and doors. All induced by others while sitting in high school and more from college parking lots. When you don't pay a lot and expect it from newer drivers, it doesn't bother you as much. Keep them clean, maintained and personalize with some nicer (not expensive) rims, good tires, maybe tint and tunes. When all becomes better skilled or more money, rock on.

Teach them safety and always seatbelts for all even in the back. This was last week at my daughters school. Sacred Heart Crash kid in the S8 convertible was always speeding on campus, showing off and posting social media attitudes from what I saw. 2 girls in the Uber went through the windshield. Really eye awakening. The 2 videos I got are disturbing and I drive an ambulance and respond to these things.

 

[nickaluch]

A colleague of mine has a dealer maintained 5-6 year old outback. It needed a transmission replaced to the tune of $8200 last week. At around 75k miles, with all fluid changes done.

I would of torched it

 

[pacem]

Do you need AWD and what's your budget? For me, I'm only interested in 2013+ subaru's as they seem to be at least average for reliability after that, but manual transmissions get pretty rare.
If you can/want to do simple work on cars, 2005+ Focus has a pretty solid engine and manual trans, the rest is ok to work on. 2000-07 has a throttle cable still too!

AWD is certainly a bonus. Stick is a requirement. I zeroed in the Subaru primary because of cargo space Outback has and stick availability and AWD being 3rd on that priorities list.

But I am not married to Subaru. I would consider a Jetta 1.8Tsi. I think ease of maintenance has to be up there too priorities-wise.

I've had a Mazda 626 V6 sports package. what a blast to drive. But not so easy to repair. Timing belt very tight. Starter replacent kind of a nightmare. Generally afraid of Japanese with the side-winder V6. Except maybe Toyota Camry. Had their 4-cyl stick and it wasn't bad to repair, for one it never broke down. But did not like drive-by-wire concept and the manual tranny was nowhere near as smooth as that of BMW. I don't know if needed a new clutch or what.

I think I am ready to diversify out of Subarus.

 

[pacem]

A colleague of mine has a dealer maintained 5-6 year old outback. It needed a transmission replaced to the tune of $8200 last week. At around 75k miles, with all fluid changes done.

That kind of reinforces my opinion about Subaru. I think I am ready to look for anything else at this point. Unless an outback is really really cheap.

The purpose of this vehicle is two-fold. I need a more economical daily driver. I have a nice Yukon with a 6.2L and corresponding MPG.

Even more importantly, want to teach my son to drive stick. He is a teen. He knows auto but no idea about stickshift. I think it would be a valuable skill. An ideal car would be well maintained but not too knew as a beginning driver is likely to get it banged or such. He already damaged two cars. One he idled for 5 hours until the engine overheated, causing head gasket to blow. The second, in his defense, someone hit him and ran away. I initially thought 2000-2008 or so Subaru Impreza or Outback (but Impreza is more sexy for 16 year old).

A better choice would be some old Camaro but its engine would nullify any MPG objectives, I think they are kind of thirsty even with a V6. Same goes for Mustangs. Plus no AWD increasing the safety concern. My first car at 16 was a RWD and would get stuck anywhere. AWD is not a must have but a bonus.

I love/hate bimmers.. nice to drive, not too nice to fix and there is always a chance of a fender bender.

 

[IndyIan]

That kind of reinforces my opinion about Subaru. I think I am ready to look for anything else at this point. Unless an outback is really really cheap.

The purpose of this vehicle is two-fold. I need a more economical daily driver. I have a nice Yukon with a 6.2L and corresponding MPG.

Even more importantly, want to teach my son to drive stick. He is a teen. He knows auto but no idea about stickshift. I think it would be a valuable skill. An ideal car would be well maintained but not too knew as a beginning driver is likely to get it banged or such. He already damaged two cars. One he idled for 5 hours until the engine overheated, causing head gasket to blow. The second, in his defense, someone hit him and ran away. I initially thought 2000-2008 or so Subaru Impreza or Outback (but Impreza is more sexy for 16 year old).

A better choice would be some old Camaro but its engine would nullify any MPG objectives, I think they are kind of thirsty even with a V6. Same goes for Mustangs. Plus no AWD increasing the safety concern. My first car at 16 was a RWD and would get stuck anywhere. AWD is not a must have but a bonus.

I love/hate bimmers.. nice to drive, not too nice to fix and there is always a chance of a fender bender.

Focus or VW wagon, I guess its what your left with for cheap reliable(ish) manual wagons of the late 2000's. Elantra Touring as well, but not as much cargo space, and a timing belt. For low mid teens you might find a 2013-17 Outback or Forester with a manual, and probably not regret spending that much. Also a few of the small 2wd SUV's had manuals.
GM had some Korean stuff in the 2000's as well, and you could get a manual wagon from them, but I bet they sold a couple dozen/year for 3 years, so parts availability will likely be a problem?

 

[pacem]

I haven't seen a reply from OP. No clue on price range or other wants/needs.

You can get an Accord up to I think '20 or '21 in manual. I have a '17 Accord LX 6MT. One nice thing is that it also has a slight delay hill hold for the brakes. Helps with those learning or not quicker on hills. My kids learned to drive stick in my '07 Sonata 5MT. The drive by wire on that was not great. I used to stall randomly, it was very weird, I've been driving stick over 40 years.

The Accord is great. 2.4L non turbo, room for 4 comfortably, gets over 30mpg average and up to 40 highway. I can go almost 600 miles on a tank on trips. Both my kids said the Accord is MUCH easier to drive and learn stick as compared to old Sonata. My son steals it for trips all the time.

Granted Accord is more boring and not high powered BUT if new driver great to learn on also. Civics are good also. My kids (and everyone) wants new high power sporty until insurance and reality. Older Mazda CX-5's came in stick also I think to 2015. I like the small SUV's for sitting higher visibility, AWD is a bonus if needed. My FWD cars with winter tires went places AWD on all seasons didn't. Ground clearance being the issue.

For OP- look at STREETSURVIVAL.ORG for skills also, highly recommended. I have other posts with links to my google pictures/videos. You use the car they will drive on wet skid pad, emergency braking (ABS), emergency lane change etc. Not your regular drivers ed class. My son did it in the 5MT Sonata with and without stability control on. He and his GF did it in the hand me down CRV. My daughter did it in her CRV. Beats the tires a bit but those are easy to replace.

The other thing to think is where they are driving with other new kids. My son's old CRV and his current 2010 Forte have many little scratches/scuffs on the corners and doors. All induced by others while sitting in high school and more from college parking lots. When you don't pay a lot and expect it from newer drivers, it doesn't bother you as much. Keep them clean, maintained and personalize with some nicer (not expensive) rims, good tires, maybe tint and tunes. When all becomes better skilled or more money, rock on.

Teach them safety and always seatbelts for all even in the back. This was last week at my daughters school. Sacred Heart Crash kid in the S8 convertible was always speeding on campus, showing off and posting social media attitudes from what I saw. 2 girls in the Uber went through the windshield. Really eye awakening. The 2 videos I got are disturbing and I drive an ambulance and respond to these things.

I responded on ... Monday at 4:47 PM

The thing that stops me with Accord is tight engine bay, looks like a nightmare DIY vehicle. Plus not much cargo area.
There is something neat about Subaru or Volvo wagons.

Maybe I should consider an older Volvo. Do they make stick-shift wagons? Meaning what's the latest model one can get or am I looking at the year 1992?
Plus they always drum up their safety ratings. Not sure how accurate that is.

 

[pacem]

I know from experience these European vehicles are generally less reliable, more expensive to fix. that goes for BMW, Audi, probably VW.. Never had the latter two just the nightmare stories I keep hearing. Not really interested in engaging that path. Oh and add MB to the list.

It's too bad there is no domestic mid size wagon with a stick. Or is there? An old Caprice would be awesome except that they dropped it a generation ago and only came in manual. I heard of some T56 conversions from a Camaro into old Roadmasters and Caprices. But the cars are old, what's there is falling apart and maybe not a great first car. Not to mention the low MPG which defeats the whole point here. I want to get at least 25MPG for a DD. Not hard to do with a stick.

maybe I should just close my eyes and jump towards a VW wagon with a stick. I know nothing about VWs. Except that they are really popular in Europe.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I responded on ... Monday at 4:47 PM

The thing that stops me with Accord is tight engine bay, looks like a nightmare DIY vehicle. Plus not much cargo area.
There is something neat about Subaru or Volvo wagons.

Maybe I should consider an older Volvo. Do they make stick-shift wagons? Meaning what's the latest model one can get or am I looking at the year 1992?
Plus they always drum up their safety ratings. Not sure how accurate that is.

I have the 4 cyl and have no issues with engine bay space. All normal maintenance stuff is pretty easy to access. I'll get a picture this weekend for you. Trunk has a good amount of room but depends of course what you need to haul on a regular basis. No substitute for a good squared off wagon.

Consider if it will be for him in long run and what use conditions. Trunks also help keep prying eyes away.

 

[ChrisMU]

My brother’s 09 Forester 2.5 NA was needing a head gasket at about 100K. My mom and dad bought the car new and it was well-maintained. Bro replaced it with a new CrossTrek.

What about a good used Acura TSX wagon, or perhaps a Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe or Corolla/Scion iM?

 

[IndyIan]

I know from experience these European vehicles are generally less reliable, more expensive to fix. that goes for BMW, Audi, probably VW.. Never had the latter two just the nightmare stories I keep hearing. Not really interested in engaging that path. Oh and add MB to the list.

It's too bad there is no domestic mid size wagon with a stick. Or is there? An old Caprice would be awesome except that they dropped it a generation ago and only came in manual. I heard of some T56 conversions from a Camaro into old Roadmasters and Caprices. But the cars are old, what's there is falling apart and maybe not a great first car. Not to mention the low MPG which defeats the whole point here. I want to get at least 25MPG for a DD. Not hard to do with a stick.

maybe I should just close my eyes and jump towards a VW wagon with a stick. I know nothing about VWs. Except that they are really popular in Europe.

With the VW's the 2.5 5 cyl should be fine and get your mileage, or maybe the 2000's ones came with the 2.0 4 cyl which is a reliable low hp motor. I'm not sure what is up with diesels now after all the recall business. And the turbo ones will probably be fine if maintained, but with no service records, I would avoid those personally.

Out of all of them I do like the Focus wagon, and if you can find a rust free one and fix the odd small problem, they seem to just go without many expensive problems.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I would of torched it

Subaru Customer care would take care of him.

NO CVT fluid changes required though at 75K mi ?

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I have the 4 cyl and have no issues with engine bay space. All normal maintenance stuff is pretty easy to access. I'll get a picture this weekend for you. Trunk has a good amount of room but depends of course what you need to haul on a regular basis. No substitute for a good squared off wagon.

Consider if it will be for him in long run and what use conditions. Trunks also help keep prying eyes away.

The oil change is five 1/4 turn screws to remove the aluminum under belly pan. Rest is pretty easy access IMO on the 4cyl. Plugs under the plastic every 100k? Air filter easy, serpentine pretty easy, the 2.4L has a timing chain and hydraulic tensioner.

 

[pacem]

My brother’s 09 Forester 2.5 NA was needing a head gasket at about 100K. My mom and dad bought the car new and it was well-maintained. Bro replaced it with a new CrossTrek.

What about a good used Acura TSX wagon, or perhaps a Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe or Corolla/Scion iM?

TSX - the engine bay looks a little tight for a DIY-selfer. I gotta give this to Subaru, their engine layout makes maintenance easier than these sidewinder Japanese variants. They would be perfect if they did not have constant head gasket issues.

Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, Corolla - all too small for me and my son, 6'3", 6'4".. tiny cars. Plus we need the cargo space.

Maybe get lucky and find a Subaru with a new engine and just hope the head gaskets do not blow up again. Isn't there an updated head gasket kit which resolves the issue?

 

[pacem]

is five 1/4 turn screws to remove the aluminum under belly pan. Rest is pretty easy access IMO on the 4cyl. Plugs under the plastic every 100k? Air filter easy, serpentine pretty easy, the 2.4L has a timing chain and hydraulic tensioner.

View attachment 183378

The timing belt looks tight like on every Japanese sidewinder.
Lack of cargo space, i.e. no wagon version.

 

[sloinker]

Mazda seems to still sell manual transmissions. Buy yourself a new Jeep with a manual transmission. Bring money. Unless you are a competent mechanic I would stay away from European vehicles. I have my share and love them but I am continually doing maintenance to keep ahead. I have also had my share of repairs and you are right in thinking that access is less than stellar on many of my rides. The Ford Fusion is an option if you can withstand the ridicule of Girl Scouts calling you a loser when you roll by.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Buy yourself a new Jeep with a manual transmission. Bring money. Unless you are a competent mechanic

At least 25mpg for DD was one of the requirements listed. My Jeep Wrangler experiences are not high for MPG's and longer daily commutes not the most comfortable. If you do the Jeep I would recommend seriously considering the Mopar MaxCare plans also. Online dealers are often much cheaper. We got ours from Robbins Motors in KS, recommended from the forums.

FIL has a '16 Jeep Renegade Trailhawk (yea it's a Fiat). Its at the dealer now for 3 months waiting for a new motor. At least it happened under the extended warranty. 4 friends with Rams and Wranglers have REALLY poor experience lately also with parts and service. FIL's Renegade was also in for almost 8 weeks beginning of year waiting for fuel pump.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

The timing belt looks tight like on every Japanese sidewinder.
Lack of cargo space, i.e. no wagon version.

His Accord has a timing chain, not a belt

Perhaps the Mazda5 is a better choice for you. It's a taller Mazda3. Both have a timing chain.

The SX4 was specifically praised for having lots of headroom. And you get your AWD and manual. It also has a timing chain.