Quick Thoughts: 2023 Subaru Outback 2.5 Limited

Drove it for a longer period a while ago and I still can't really like it. At 50-55mph in what I'm assuming is torque converter lock up it shudders something fierce just about every time. The infotainment is still cumbersome to try and use while driving. I did adjust some audio settings and the sound quality is acceptable, but not what you would expect out of "premium" audio.
 
I have literally no skin in the game here being a long-term Honda owner. Just some random thoughts and impressions, the Subaru engine seems to be almost a Rube-Goldberg design, any engine that requires removing for basic service is similar to a Ford pickup that requires removing the cab for engine service, not well designed IMHO. Ultimately not designed to be easy on owners wallets. That all being a given, DI and auto start/stop are both sources of problems and annoyance. So much of this is from various government mandates. Manufacturers are trying to please too many masters, good gas mileage, low emissions, good drivability and adequate power as well as durability. Honda's 1.5t is a prime example of this with ongoing oil dilution issues, yet if you understand it and are proactive with service, they seem to pile up the miles regardless. Almost all brands have their loyalists, Subaru as well. I will say that Honda seems to have worked out a decent climate control system as well as a fairly durable CVT. At least we still have choices. It's been interesting watching both consumers and Manufacturers pulling back from EV as practicality rears it's head.
 
the Subaru engine seems to be almost a Rube-Goldberg design, any engine that requires removing for basic service ...
Fortunately, the Subaru engine is among the easier ones to remove, although that isn't much comfort to the average DIYer. But a somewhat-handy DIYer should be able to replace the plugs. It's an easier job than on, say, many FWD DOHC V6s.
 
Just some random thoughts and impressions, the Subaru engine seems to be almost a Rube-Goldberg design,
Far from it, the boxer design is one of the best on the market from the original VW, Porsche, Citroen, Ferrari and others have proven that for decades. That is not to say there has not been some design implementation failures with them, they are a split case engine and with that comes the inherent issue of oil leakage/seepage, it is almost in their DNA. Anyone that owned an old British bike knows if it didn't have a drop of oil under it, the engine was probably out of oil, they were also split case engines with no pan.

The positives of the boxer are many, they are very smooth, low vibration and rev freely. Thinking back to the old VW and Porsche engines their engines had to ba removed for anything more than very minor things the Subaru is not bad, the engine is out in 2 hours and is very easy to repair out of the car. Personally I wish they didn't go to a cam chain instead of the belt especially recommending thin oils. Just another leak point and more complexity, the belt was an easy job, it didn't beat the oil to death and are quiet. Going to an open deck instead of the closed deck didn't do anyone any favors either, that alone was more than partially responsible for the HG fiasco.
 
It should be well broken in so it should perform the same, I have no idea why it wouldn't other than maybe the fuel.
I haven’t driven the ‘19, but I’ve driven ‘23 Ascent and Outback non-turbo. I agree, the Outback feels like it can’t get out of its way, while the Ascent with the turbo, at least while on the boost, is at least livable. After driving the 2.4 vs 2.5, there’s no way I’d buy another non-turbo Subaru.
 
I've owned a lot of boxers, from 60's & 70's VW's, both Bugs and Karmann-Ghia's, learned to drive in a Porsche 356. Also restored several Corvairs. The VW's were remarkably easy to work on with the engine installed, Corvairs, once the engine had been removed and properly sealed with Viton "O" rings were not the easiest but not terrible. All were air-cooled and fairly simple, once water-cooling, overhead cams and other complexities entered the Boxer world, things became more difficult. You're correct, inherently very smooth running.
 
Far from it, the boxer design is one of the best on the market from the original VW, Porsche, Citroen, Ferrari and others have proven that for decades. That is not to say there has not been some design implementation failures with them, they are a split case engine and with that comes the inherent issue of oil leakage/seepage, it is almost in their DNA. Anyone that owned an old British bike knows if it didn't have a drop of oil under it, the engine was probably out of oil, they were also split case engines with no pan.

The positives of the boxer are many, they are very smooth, low vibration and rev freely. Thinking back to the old VW and Porsche engines their engines had to ba removed for anything more than very minor things the Subaru is not bad, the engine is out in 2 hours and is very easy to repair out of the car. Personally I wish they didn't go to a cam chain instead of the belt especially recommending thin oils. Just another leak point and more complexity, the belt was an easy job, it didn't beat the oil to death and are quiet. Going to an open deck instead of the closed deck didn't do anyone any favors either, that alone was more than partially responsible for the HG fiasco.
This ^^^^! Well said. Why manufacturers are going with chains instead of belts has got to be an emissions thing. Chasing the extra .2 mpg. Belts are a beautiful thing on most engines. Simple and long lasting, 80-120k. And easier to deal with than chains. Looking at the new Subaru’s, or any recent Audi timing chain set up, “yup, that doesn’t look good…..multiple pints of failure.” I’m a fan of dry timing belts, not wet belts.
 
Drove it for a longer period a while ago and I still can't really like it. At 50-55mph in what I'm assuming is torque converter lock up it shudders something fierce just about every time. The infotainment is still cumbersome to try and use while driving. I did adjust some audio settings and the sound quality is acceptable, but not what you would expect out of "premium" audio.
The TC locks around 10mph normally, and rarely if ever unlocks after that? I can only think maybe it unlocks when asked for a near WO passing maneuver? I can't be sure as there is a few things going on with the near WO shifts, but it sound like this Outback could have a problem?
 
The TC locks around 10mph normally, and rarely if ever unlocks after that? I can only think maybe it unlocks when asked for a near WO passing maneuver? I can't be sure as there is a few things going on with the near WO shifts, but it sound like this Outback could have a problem?

Thing was this was very light throttle and just creeping up to speeds. It would kind of jerk and then drop a couple hundred RPM's. Being a loaner it's had multiple drivers so we don't know what the computer has learned from other drivers. I honestly haven't really "got on it" as it's not my vehicle.
 
Thing was this was very light throttle and just creeping up to speeds. It would kind of jerk and then drop a couple hundred RPM's. Being a loaner it's had multiple drivers so we don't know what the computer has learned from other drivers. I honestly haven't really "got on it" as it's not my vehicle.
Yeah mine never does that, and I'm sure yours never shudders accelerating like that either... I think you could damage this transmission by using WO when its cold, but I've never seen data to back that up. It is what I tell my wife though, as she doesn't have much mechanical sympathy!
 
Ironically I was the youngest person in the service department waiting area by 30 years and I'm 33... :ROFLMAO:
I am dead serious. It is absolutely favorite among older crowd, LaSabre crowd. That is how it drives too. Last Outback I drove was friends 3.6 (last gen. 3,6) and it was exhaustingly slow going uphill to ski.
 
I am dead serious. It is absolutely favorite among older crowd, LaSabre crowd. That is how it drives too. Last Outback I drove was friends 3.6 (last gen. 3,6) and it was exhaustingly slow going uphill to ski.
I agree, mine (2012 Legacy) rides like a Buick. A couple of years ago, I was in a 2020 Forester Sport, the ride was very delicate, not what I was expecting for a newer model.
 
I agree, mine (2012 Legacy) rides like a Buick. A couple of years ago, I was in a 2020 Forester Sport, the ride was very delicate, not what I was expecting for a newer model.
Subaru hit jack-pot with this formula. I think that laziness with CVT etc. fits what a lot of people want and what they were looking in Avalon or Camry, and prior to that LaSabre. Add good AWD, clearance and there you go. They do not want anything more. Of course, shameless marketing about winter performance makes me downshift every time I see one in the review mirror.
 
I mean, they are pretty good in the snow. Provided you don't drive like a jackwagon...
They are. But, it is all about stopping and targeted crowd doesn’t think about it. They want no nonsense vehicle bcs. they just want A to B car. We have largest Subaru dealer in the US, and billboards are absolutely shameless.
 
The problem with Subaru and other AWD is if you cant drive to begin with it can get you in a world of trouble quick. I learned to drive on RWD and never had any real problem in snow, my first AWD was a Quattro, if you can drive the AWD is magic. I drive my Subaru (winter car) fairly aggressively and have never crashed. It has the tires and the ABS fuse pulled (ABS on these things especially up to the late teens) will try to put you in a ditch in a heartbeat).
 
Subaru found very good business formula, they became Buick with good AWD. They are new favorite among Camry/Avalon owners.
I kind of think there's some 90's Swedish Volvo in there too, and I wish ours was a bit more boxy in the cargo area at least.
That said, the 2015 Outback beat some much more "exciting" cars in a figure 8 test...
https://www.motortrend.com/news/15-non-sporty-family-cars/
Quote
A 2015 Subaru Outback we tested with a 2.5-liter four-cylinder went around our figure eight in 26.3 seconds at 0.63 g (avg). What else completed our figure eight in 26.3 seconds? A 2004 Cadillac CTS-V, a 2013 Subaru BRZ, a 2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra (yes, the Terminator), and a 2015 Mini Cooper S Hardtop four-door. Those all posted a higher average g number, but from start to finish, the numbers don't lie. The Outback is mighty capable.
I guess with half decent tires, say similar to the SVT Cobra or CTS-V it would be even quicker!
Mine has pretty floaty springs and shocks, but it will rotate quite easily with a throttle drop, and somehow the light steering seems to be quite precise under loading in a corner, especially given the tires.
 
So I still have the loaner and drove it all week. Probably have put over 200+ miles on it now. Still hate the darn infotainment/HVAC system. I am severely disappointed in the LED headlights; my Tacoma's LED's are far better IMO. The beam moving with the steering wheel is kinda neat, but the brightness is no better than the Halogens in the 2019. We had a cold snap last week here in PA and it takes forever to warm up! My commute is 17.5 miles and it didn't really start getting warm till 3/4 of the way there. Our 2019 does take a bit to warm up too, but not as long as the '23. Overall I don't think I would buy one and like the Gen 5 better.

Bonus, here's a layout of the infotainment.

4aMO05R.jpg
 
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