Is Red Line the primo oil?

[AEHaas]

Compare to a water "based" paint, an oil based paint. There are petroleum based greases and silicone based products. What about flour based cakes and chocolate based "flowerless" ones.

The "base" of a product defines the overall characteristics. The amounts are not important.

Most oils are almost exactly the same in function. There are however differences. For example, an ester based oil will withstand higher temperatures of operation and evaporate less. By knowing the base we can infer differences that might be important to some people.

aehaas

 

[MGBV8]

Wolf

Silkolene is approx 20%, the HTHS of oils with esters oils mentioned compared to M1

Redline
5w40 4.6
10W40 4.7
15W50 5.8

Motul 300V

5W40 4.51
15W50 5.33

Silkolene PRO S 5w-40 = 4.07

Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 = 5.11

Silkolene PRO R 15w-50 = 5.23


M1
0W40 3.6
15W50 5.11

 

[Alcibiades]

Like I said, ALL advertising is inherently dishonest in some way or another. In many cases that is probably not even intentional, but rather due to the shifting, contextual ambiguity of words themselves. Of course, it is almost never overtly false, because they are too smart for that, as are most consumers. But I'm mostly talking about rhetorical tricks and purposeful ambiguity, same as you are saying, ekpolk. But the quoted paragraph does say that "Redline Oil ONLY uses superior poly ester-based products...."

There are two points of ambiguity here:

1. "Only POE-based products" does not absolutely exclude PAO, because PAO could be part of the additive package, and because a POE "based" product could still have PAO blended in. In either of these cases, though, Redline would be skirting the edge of overt falsehood, which I should think (hope) they are smart enough to avoid.

2. They might only be refering to their racing oils, but again that would come very close to and probably cross the line into simple falsehood, because the quoted paragraph does not specify racing oils.

It is quite amazing how imprecise language is when we examine it closely. And perhaps years of studying literary theory have made me too suspicious. As G-Man said, it would indeed be better if they had simply said, as unequivocally as possible, that their oils are 100% POE, + add. pack for street oils.

What Buster has reported from Redline complicates things further. If POE is the "primary" base stock, then I suspect it does have significant PAO, but they consider it to be, or say that it is, part of the add. pack. That way they are on relatively safe rhetorical ground, though it is rather sneaky.

On top of all that, none of this answers the original question of this thread, but there probably is not a single answer, anyway.

Geez, I should be a lawyer!

 

[Wolf_Tm250]

Hi MGBV8,

thanks for the info...

have you/someone got even the PAO/POE % of those oils ?

Seems to be quite important...

 

[abimanyu]

Alci, are you a John Dryden fan? Is language the truth or just duplicities, deceits and lies?

 

[abimanyu]

Ok, I want to ask something. Compare the R&D budget of ExxonMobil, Shell, Total/Elf/Fina and take that comparison to companies such as Redline,Amsoil,Shaffer,Castrol. Based on that fact, who would you rely on for the truth? Mobil1=McLaren Mercedes Team, ELF=Renault F1, Shell=Ferrari.

Who would you trust? Proven R&D and track records of Shell/ExxonMobil/Total or boutique companies such as Redline, Supertech, Amsoil, Maxima, etc...

 

[Nick29]

quote:

---

Originally posted by abimanyu:
Who would you trust? Proven R&D and track records of Shell/ExxonMobil/Total or boutique companies such as Redline, Supertech, Amsoil, Maxima, etc...

---

Hundreds (if not thousands) of SCCA Club Racing, World Challenge, and Grand Am (to name a few) teams as well as dozens of champions in those series trust Redline's "R&D and track record."

 

[Alcibiades]

Abi, I didn't mean all that necessarily to be negative in some moralistic sense. (See my point!?

) In this thread, it is a practical problem: Just what exactly does Redline mean with those words? Unfortunately it is not clear, even though the language has the appearance of precision, although Buster did clear up some things.

 

[Volvohead]

Who would I trust at 190 mph on the track . . . the R&D and track records of Ford or GM, or that of a Shelby, Penske or AMG . . . ?

The former have a hard enough time keeping their regular production vehicles going.

Last I checked, the track record of Schaeffers was at least 50 years long before Mobiloil (under its predecessor name) ever showed up. Those young whippersnappers!

 

[TomJones76]

abi,

I gotta' say, they may not be big, but I trust that Redline, Amsoil and Shaffer [sic] know what they're doing.
If they were idiots, they wouldn't be as old as they are now.
I don't know why you're grouping Castrol in with the small vendors. Castrol is much more analogous to Mobil, etc.

 

[Volvohead]

 

[pzev]

Ya know, I don't doubt that Redline is a good oil, however when they are so vague as to what goes into their oil I am not sure I want to give them my business.

I was really interested in running redline, but unless I know what I am paying for then why should I waste my time? I was recently looking at another primo oil, and when I inquired as to what was in it, I had no problem finding what I was looking for, I acquired this knowledge from the company of all places.


Perhaps a high price tag and neat demo video are fine for most, but when I am about to fork over $8 or more for a quart of oil, I want to know what is in it.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volvohead:
Last I checked, the track record of Schaeffers was at least 50 years long before Mobiloil (under its predecessor name) ever showed up. Those young whippersnappers!

---

How do you figure that? Mobil (before the merger with Exxon) was a direct decendent of Standard Oil of New York, which was organized in 1882. Schaeffers as a business entity may be a little older, but they did not start off as an oil company the way Standard did. Schaeffers was originally a soap and candle company that gradually got into the grease and oil business toward the latter part of the 19th century.

 

[ekpolk]

pzev:

I feel your pain. That said, don't be too hard on RL; they're better than most about answering questions. Just email them via the "contact us" link on their site. They will give you most of what you want. This is in stark contrast to the complete non-sense you'll get from Castrol if you try to get some actual info out of them. RL has actually given me a couple of meaningful answers to the several questions I've asked. All I got from Castrol was gobble-de-gook and a coupon for a buck off on a quart of oil.

 

[buster]

I have some new info to share. LOL.

I called Elf and spoke with Laurant (sp?). He said what Molekule said in that you can only have at most, 50% Ester in the mix for a 4 stroke engine. He said esters are great for 2 stroke, but not 4 stroke. Seal leakage is a problem and he also said he doesn't know of any 100% ester based oils. They are not ideal.

*He said even their F1 oils are 80% PAO. So if this is correct, RL is probably at most 50% PAO and 50% POE. I do trust Elf, Shell and XOM because these companies to work very closely with these racing teams. Doesn't mean the others are not capable, but I do see some common denominator among the big companies. M1R was also mostly PAO.

Bottom line though is that Esters are not all that great for 4 stroke engines and that Group II+, III, and IV with a good add pack are every bit as good for some applications. Hasn't the analysis on BITOG shown that? I think so. Elf as you know is used in 4 F1 teams right now.

RL's racing oils might be all POE, but that is just a guess.

BTW, the guy is very nice and informative. I'd give Elf my business.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
So if this is correct, RL is probably at most 50% PAO and 50% POE.

---

Sounds reasonable to me. I've also heard from other sources that a 100% POE street engine oil is not the best idea. Thanks for the info, buster.

 

[Volvohead]

quote:

---

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volvohead:
Last I checked, the track record of Schaeffers was at least 50 years long before Mobiloil (under its predecessor name) ever showed up. Those young whippersnappers!

---

How do you figure that? Mobil (before the merger with Exxon) was a direct decendent of Standard Oil of New York, which was organized in 1882. Schaeffers as a business entity may be a little older, but they did not start off as an oil company the way Standard did. Schaeffers was originally a soap and candle company that gradually got into the grease and oil business toward the latter part of the 19th century.

---

Schaeffer has been in business since the 1830s. If you want to quibble about the form of lubricants they've made over the years, that's fine. By 1850 they were a major grease producer.

But they're more than a little older than Mobiloil, which started out as the Vacuum Oil Company and was acquired by Standard of Ohio in 1879. Vacuum Oil introduced its "Gargoyle Mobiloils" in 1904. Vacuum was broken free in the 1911 breakup and didn't merge with Socony until 1931, close to a century after Schaeffers had been in business.

Schaeffer also makes a very fine motor oil today that I have no problems comparing to M1 in many respects.

 

[G-MAN]

As interesting as this little walk down history lane is, it's really irrelevant. How long a company has been in business has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the lubricants they produce today.

DaimlerChrysler can trace its roots back to their first car in 1886. Does that mean they make the best vehicles on the road today? Or even the most technologically advanced?

 

[moribundman]

abi, you better make accessible to us those figures you want us to compare. I wouldn't know where to start looking for them.

I question the validity of what you're implying. How does size of the budget and size of the research and development department necessarily reflect in a superior product? Small companies can very well develop and produce top-notch product, especially if it's a niche product with a limited market that is accepting higher-than-average prices.

Also, whatever product Castrol, Mobil, Elf, Shell and all the other big companies supply to the F1 racing teams that they sponsor isn't the same product that the consumer gets.

 

[reyjay1]

SuperTech a boutique oil??