I know Ford makes the best trucks, but...

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

Ben, gets a little Crazy sometimes with the Ford is the best this and that.


Just "sometimes"...?

I've learned to just let everyone go after everyone else on these threads. I just sit back and laugh at all of the black eyes and bloody noses as it goes along.

No one is going to change any minds on this topic. Yet folks try anyway and act like the impossible *could* happen.

It'd be the first time...

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: ls1mike

Ben, gets a little Crazy sometimes with the Ford is the best this and that.


Just "sometimes"...?

I've learned to just let everyone go after everyone else on these threads. I just sit back and laugh at all of the black eyes and bloody noses as it goes along.

No one is going to change any minds on this topic. Yet folks try anyway and act like the impossible *could* happen.

It'd be the first time...


Fair enough and I should know better...Thanks for reminding me.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Overkill, That wasn't my point at all.
Ben, gets a little Crazy sometimes with the Ford is the best this and that.
When you are talking the difference between late model 5.3 and 5.4 in half ton trucks their is no clear winner. My impression is he wants people to look at the 99 model year and then tell folks the 5.4 walks all over it. When you look past that 1st year and start going through the 2000's that just isn't case.
No cherry picking here, not saying either one is better.
Just clearing up some of the "Facts"


Mike:

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. Your opinion and mine are pretty close here I think.

I'm more in disagreement with mechanicx, but that is pretty much "par for the course", and I think both he and myself expect that in these sort of threads, LOL!

 

[mechanicx]

I don't know, I almost completely agree with Mike too so I'm not sure how you agree with him and disagree with me

.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't know, I almost completely agree with Mike too so I'm not sure how you agree with him and disagree with me

.


Really? Come on, do we EVER agree? LOL

Maybe when it comes to hating Toyota, but....

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
When you are talking the difference between late model 5.3 and 5.4 in half ton trucks their is no clear winner.


I think there are clear winners depending on the situation. The 5.3 does great when it's empty, the 5.4 shines when towing. Half-ton to half-ton. I'm not cherry picking my arguments, aren't you the one that based your idea of 5.4 capability on its 3/4 ton performance?

Quote:
My impression is he wants people to look at the 99 model year and then tell folks the 5.4 walks all over it.


The statement was made that GM has "always" had the better gas engines. I was simply backing up my statements that they have not "always" done so.

I also gave GM its due credit for the 6.0 and L92, but IMO the 4.8/5.3 are simply not better truck engines than the 4.6/5.4. Also, I am anything but a fan of the 3Vs, I think Ford screwed the pooch on that one.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: ls1mike

Ben, gets a little Crazy sometimes with the Ford is the best this and that.


Just "sometimes"...?

Still bootyhurt over the last go-around, eh?

Update from the last argument: 2010 year to date sales as of November

Ford F-Series: 473,461
Chevrolet Silverado: 327,619
GMC Sierra: 112,999

I don't think GM is going to catch Ford by the end of this month.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I don't think GM is going to catch Ford by the end of this month.

"I just sit back and laugh at all of the black eyes and bloody noses as it goes along..."

...and yes, I'm still laughing at you...

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
"I just sit back and laugh at all of the black eyes and bloody noses as it goes along..."


This only happens when you let it get to you...

 

[nomochevys]

Fords new engines will walk the Gm engines imo.

3.7> 4.3 not even close
5.0> 4.8 or 5.3 take your pick not close
3.5> than all of the above
6.2 to 6.2 is yet to be seen but I think they will be close. Not enough of either are sold to even worry about it.

Ford builds a solid truck and I have felt all then needed was better powertrains and now they have it. Look for that sales gap to widen. First time I remember them outselling Gmc and Chevy combined. They are doing something right with so called lack luster engines.

 

[mrsilv04]

Well, the final sales data is in for 2010. I wanted to get this posted for Ben, since he brought the topic back in early December, before the final sales numbers were published...


Silverado 1500 and Sierra 1500 - 397,347
Ford F-150 - 313,393


Once again, GM sold more 1/2 ton pickups, than Ford did with the F-150.

Ford is only able to make their "best selling" claim because GM's 1/2 ton truck sales are split across two divisions.





Silverado 1500 - 296,108
Sierra 1500 - 101,239

 

[OVERKILL]

So Ford outsold Chevy. And Ford outsold GM. But didn't out-sell them both combined. I recall it being like that many times over the years.

They are two different arms of the same company. And Silverado out-sells Sierra by 3x.

GM's two arms selling the same [censored] thing is part of the reason they went bankrupt. It isn't impressive, it is retarded.

Just like them just spending more than 1/2 a billion of our tax dollars to build a plant in Mexico to show how much they appreciated all our help. Go GM!

 

[MNgopher]

Every year the same old washed up arguments on both sides. (The F150 not outselling both the Silverado and Sierra combined happens many years) Can we just agree that both GM and Ford sell a lot of trucks and be happy?

I do agree though that the split between Chevy and GMC is just dumb. I understand the reason (Chevy sells a full lineup, while GMC slots in with Buick to allow a similar full lineup at those dealerships), but it still doesn't make it right...

 

[mrsilv04]

Guys-

My apologies. But facts are facts. I simply waited until the final numbers were in, to respond.

It was some other guy who couldn't leave the topic alone back in December.

 

[Spazdog]

Quote:
GM's two arms selling the same [censored] thing is part of the reason they went bankrupt. It isn't impressive, it is retarded.


Ford and Chrysler both sold trucks branded as Mercury and Plymouth...

Oh wait! Those marques are both dead.

Never mind.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Just like them just spending more than 1/2 a billion of our tax dollars to build a plant in Mexico to show how much they appreciated all our help. Go GM!



How much did GM invest in Canada and the US in the last year? Who sells the most vehicles in Mexico? What auto manufacturer can you point to that doesnt build in the markets they sell to?

With the stock price getting close to $40/share...your argument that it is your tax dollars will soon be history. At least for some, I'm sure we'll still get to hear about it constantly though, and in threads where it has no relevancy at all...again and again, by the same people.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
They are two different arms of the same company. And Silverado out-sells Sierra by 3x.

GM's two arms selling the same [censored] thing is part of the reason they went bankrupt. It isn't impressive, it is retarded.

Just like them just spending more than 1/2 a billion of our tax dollars to build a plant in Mexico to show how much they appreciated all our help. Go GM!


GM has done studies that say that the buyers of GMC trucks have Ford as their second choice, not Chevy.

Not a failed business model, in my mind.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Just like them just spending more than 1/2 a billion of our tax dollars to build a plant in Mexico to show how much they appreciated all our help. Go GM!



How much did GM invest in Canada and the US in the last year? Who sells the most vehicles in Mexico? What auto manufacturer can you point to that doesnt build in the markets they sell to?

With the stock price getting close to $40/share...your argument that it is your tax dollars will soon be history. At least for some, I'm sure we'll still get to hear about it constantly though, and in threads where it has no relevancy at all...again and again, by the same people.


I think they should have waited until we were completely repaid before doing something like this. Makes sense no?

As I said in my post in the other thread, I know and appreciate that GM and Ford have operations in other countries. Countries including Mexico. These are large and growing markets for them. It makes sense.

However, the Mexican government did NOT provide financial support for GM during its time of need. It did not provide GM a (controversial) method of remaining viable while proceeding with a bankruptcy that screwed MANY people and corporations.

This comes off as a disrespectful move by a company who has been known for making incredibly stupid decisions like this in the past. Decisions that affect its corporate image, anger the consumer and sour people on the brand(s). Something it cannot afford to do at this crucial point in the "reinvention"; painting themselves in the same old colours is not what we, the taxpaper, we the consumer, want to see from the "new GM".

 

[LS2JSTS]

Since you didnt bother to answer my question, I'll do it for you.

GM has invested over 3 Billion dollars since 7/09 in the USA on retro fitting and updating plants and assembly lines.

And NO, it doesnt make sense to wait. They are investing in Mexico to build engines for Mexican consumption, and on top of that they are updating an existing plant. This isnt new investment, it's an investment to keep their already functioning Mexican operations on the top of their game. They are Number 1 in Mexico in sales, and plan to continue that trend. From a Corporate standpoint, waiting would be silly.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS

How much did GM invest in Canada and the US in the last year? Who sells the most vehicles in Mexico? What auto manufacturer can you point to that doesnt build in the markets they sell to?


To be fair, most of the Mexican market "Chevies" (they are badged "Chevy") are made in Korea or Brazil. Ironically I don't think they actually sell the HHR that is made in Mexico, in Mexico.

Some of the Indiana built Silverados might make it across the Rio Grande, but I can't think of any Canadian made "Chevies" that make it to Mexico.

Canadian cars will sell in Mexico. The Mexican market was fond of the Panthers