I know Ford makes the best trucks, but...

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

Right but why not compare a 5.4 to a 5.3. Of course the 5.4 out tows the 4.8. It should. No suprise there.


Because I don't know anybody who has one so I can't compare. Whilst my uncle's truck is the same year as my Ex, and is readily accessible, LOL

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
GM trucks always had the better gas engines.


Disagree with always, the 302/351 were better than the 305/350 until the Vortec 350 showed up. The Vortec brought it's own set of issues though. IMO, the 4.6/5.4 were better than the 4.8/5.3 from 99-present.

Ben maybe the 302 and 351 were about the same as the rest of the offerings of the time. But you need to get off the Blue Oval for a minute if you think the 4.6 and 5.4 in truck form are better than the 4.8 and 5.4 especially when towing. Have you towed in a 3/4 with a 5.4? I have, it is painful. You can't even get a 5.3 or 4.8 in a GM 3/4 ton. I know you are a Ford guy but be realistic. The GM stuff even gets better mileage. Just take a look a the RV boards or any campsite for that matter.


I actually have towed with the 5.3 quite a bit, in an old job I was driving a 2001 Silverado 2wd reg cab 5.3 W/T empty/loaded/towing. It was pretty quick empty, but towing is precisely where the 5.4 2V (99+ PI) killed it. The 5.4 has so much more low-end and mid-range torque than the 5.3 it isn't even funny, and it becomes really apparent when hooked up to some weight.

 

[ls1mike]

You were not doing it right LSX motors make all the good power up top.

 

[Ben99GT]

...which is why the 4.6/5.4 are better truck engines. Half-ton to half-ton, yes IMO the 4.6/5.4 are better than the 4.8/5.3. The 5.4 isn't enough engine for the Super Duty.

 

[ls1mike]

Ben,
You are the first and only guy I have heard say that. Every Campsite every RV Board says it totally different.
They can't all be wrong.

07 Silverado link:
http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69531&hl=dyno&st=0

stock F-150 5.4
Here is a link to another Ford site.
http://www.fordforums.com/f698/sct-f150-5-4l-dyno-graph-162083/
You can search all over the internet and the trucks are almost always idenctical. Infact if you look the same way I did through the year the 5.3 made more hp and torque through the band.
You had a bad one or a bad set of gears. Man you bleed a little too blue for me.
I will just the RV boards give me my info. And it is 180 out of what you say. Having towed with both I don't agree with you.

 

[mechanicx]

Most Ford guys will never admit anything else is better or even as good no matter what the facts are, especially if it's GM.

 

[Ben99GT]

Mike, and you are the only guy I've ever heard make the claim that the 5.3 is a better towing engine than the 5.4.

Problem 1, I qualified my comparison. 2001 5.3 versus 1999 5.4 (2V).

Problem 2, you are comparing DynoJet results, which are pretty consistent, to DynaPack results which are not. Simply put, stock 5.3s make nowhere near those Dynapack numbers.

Stock 2007 5.3 DynoJet dyno (blue line is stock, red line is with aftermarket intake manifold):

http://performancetrucks.net/forums/showthread.php?t=464010

Here's some dyno results from the 1999 models as tested by Truck Trend, all on the same dyno.

Ford 5.4L Triton (manufacturer rated at the flywheel for 260HP @ 4500 and
345 lb/ft at 2300)

Peak HP (rear wheel observed) 209.2 @ 4250
Peak Torque (rear wheel observed) 281.2 @ 3000

Dodge Magnum 5.9L (manufacturer rated at the flywheel for 245 HP @ 4000 rpm
and 335lb/ft @ 3200)

Peak HP (rear wheel observed) 194.7 @ 4500
Peak Torque (rear wheel observed) 257.5 @ 3500

Chevy 5.3L Vortec (manufacturer rated at the flywheel for 270HP @5000 and
285lb/ft @ 4000)

Peak HP (rear wheel observed) 182.8 @ 5200
Peak Torque (rear wheel observed) 221.7 @ 3750

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Most Ford guys will never admit anything else is better or even as good no matter what the facts are, especially if it's GM.


Where are the facts that support it? GM had the 6.0 and 6.2 which were better than the V8 Tritons up until this year. I have no problem admitting when GM does something better, but IMO the 4.8/5.3 don't deserve that credit.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Stock 2007 5.3 DynoJet dyno (blue line is stock, red line is with aftermarket intake manifold):

Typo: red line is stock, blue line is with aftermarket intake manifold.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Ben is correct here. The 6.0/6.2 are awesome torque monsters, but NOT the 5.3.

Even with short gears the 5.3 is struggling to tow nominal loads.

And it's the entire torque curve that should be evaluated, not just the peak numbers. And I'm no fan of dynos in general, they produce a lot of completely erroneous readings and can be easily manipulated.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I wouldn't consider either the GM 5.3L or the Ford 5.4L to have "a lot" of torque. We've had work trucks here in both flavors; had an '01 Silverado 4x4 with the 5.3L and currently have an '06 F-150 4x4 with the 5.4L and neither one got off the line well. Both took a second to "spin up" to their power band. Overall, I preferred the 5.3L due to NVH issues in the 5.4L. Too loud/raucous for the power it produces. I admit that I haven't towed with either, but the 5.4L would have to be a completely different animal with something strapped to the hitch for me to believe they're that far apart for towing.

 

[ls1mike]

Hokiefyd, you made my point and you are driving the lower hp version of the 5.3 as compared to 5.4. That are not far apart in towing and Ben wants to compare first year 5.3s only.

Why not look at newer stuff too? I understand 1999 proves your point but that was 11 years ago.

Here are 05 specs

F-150 specs
http://www.fordf150.net/specs/05f150.php
It is a nice chart, wish someone made one for GM trucks

Silverado 1500
http://www.new-cars.com/2005/2005-chevy-silverado-extended-cab.html
Just scroll down to performance

In 06 most of the Silverados got the 310 hp version.

If you look at the torque cure for any LSx based motor full torque comes on right at about 1200 to 1500 rpm and drop off at about 5000 rpm.
You make it sound like the 5.4 runs away it dosen't and in most cases they are equal. That why Ford isn't making the 4.6 or 5.4 anymore. They had to do something.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

F-150 specs
http://www.fordf150.net/specs/05f150.php


I didn't know that the 5.4L's torque peak doesn't come until almost 4,000 RPM, but it correlates pretty well with my impression of it. I drive this truck daily and it just doesn't have a lot of torque. It revs out pretty good, but you have to wait for it. Almost like waiting for a turbo to spool. I'm sure it's got "Bonneville" gears in it.

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

Silverado 1500
http://www.new-cars.com/2005/2005-chevy-silverado-extended-cab.html
Just scroll down to performance


You know what...our '01 Silverado was an extended cab long bed. It might have even had the 4.8L. Which makes the 5.4L even less impressive to me. Still, the torque peak on both engines is well north of what it used to be on full-size pick ups.

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

You make it sound like the 5.4 runs away it dosen't and in most cases they are equal. That why Ford isn't making the 4.6 or 5.4 anymore. They had to do something.


I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but if I did, I certainly didn't mean to. To the contrary, I'm rather unimpressed with it, in the F-150 we have at least. Moreso now that I realize I may be comparing it to a 4.8L Silverado. That Chevy was my favorite work truck we've had. Current trucks include the F-150, an '08 Ram with the 4.7L (decent), and a smattering of 2WD I-5 Colorados (lame). The Silverado had that fake pleather that was super comfy. Best truck we've had here.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Oh, we also have an '05 or so F-250 with the earlier 5.4L (2V version maybe?) with 230-something horsepower. I do agree with others that it's completely inadequate in that size of truck. Ours even tows a spill response trailer, and it does okay, but it's not great. I have towed with it, and it's not something I'd like to have on the open road, especially with any mountains.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Don't forget your Ford also came with several hundred extra pounds of 'road hugging' weight to further enhance its performance!

You pay every mile for that, stopping, starting, turning. My FIL has a 2009 Ford and it is impressive inside, but I can't stand the weighty feel of it.

 

[mechanicx]

Typical of Ford guys to cherry pick their arguments, focus on one aspect and pit the worst for Chevy against the best of Ford. Seems they never look at the big picture. Most test reviews I've seen place the Silverado ahead of the F150 when everything is taken into account.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Typical of Ford guys to cherry pick their arguments, focus on one aspect and pit the worst for Chevy against the best of Ford. Seems they never look at the big picture. Most test reviews I've seen place the Silverado ahead of the F150 when everything is taken into account.


Yeah, the GM guys would never do such a thing! LMAO!!!!

Come on dude, you are THE most "pro GM" guy on this site. Period.

I'm pretty guilty of bleeding blue here, but I also don't walk around pretending my **** doesn't stink.

The basis for my personal comparison was for vehicles around the same age as my own, which in this case was my uncle's 4.8L. Ben was also citing examples from this time-frame. My old 2V makes 260/350. And it tows very well with the 4R100 behind it. It also doesn't have the "laggy" feeling of the newer 3V.

 

[mechanicx]

I just can't agree that I'm the most pro-GM poster or that anyone could ever hold a candle to the Ford guys's cherry picking JMO.

 

[ls1mike]

Overkill, That wasn't my point at all.
Ben, gets a little Crazy sometimes with the Ford is the best this and that.
When you are talking the difference between late model 5.3 and 5.4 in half ton trucks their is no clear winner. My impression is he wants people to look at the 99 model year and then tell folks the 5.4 walks all over it. When you look past that 1st year and start going through the 2000's that just isn't case.
No cherry picking here, not saying either one is better.
Just clearing up some of the "Facts"

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I don't know if you were talking to me or not,

Nope, I was talking to Ben.