GT's Running Volvo thread. The 00 XC

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. . . Just a WAG, but I would take a VERY close look at those calipers before slapping fresh pads on them. If they're bad, they'll bugger new pads and rotors.

Unless you have significant brake experience, you don't rebuild these if done, you replace them. Get rebuilts with a core charge.

Based on the pix, I'd also be taking a close look at the front. Might be looking at a four-corner job.

Of course, you'll be doing a full fluid flush, with a pressure bleeder. No pumping at that mileage, unless you plan on a new MC. ATE Type 200 fluid.

Brake work or a T-Belt job first -- quite the dilemma.

I'd park it until funds allow both.

And if you value your life, you NEVER work on a vehicle lifted only by a floor jack. Jack stands.
 
This is a close-up of the problem wheel.
199946_410676575665561_374580287_n.jpg


Something(s) very wrong with that picture.
1. Wow. Things sure do rust up badly in the NE.

2. You're losing quite a bit of braking capability because you're not using the full disk width that's available to you. That outer rusted ring might look small, but there is quite a bit of area there as the area of a circle is proportional to the sqr of the radius.

3. DO NOT put new pads on THAT rotor. Don't even think of it. Further, for it to look like that, somethings FUBAR. Are the pads down to the rivets ("cutting on the pass. side")? Are the pads, rotor & brake fluid original?

4. If the rears look that bad, what do the front's look like? You might be in for pads & rotors on all four corners.

5. What color is the brake fluid in the reservoir? Even if its clear or deep amber, it might be BLACK or BROWN in the calipers, which indicates the presence of water and rust. And in the NE, it's cold enough to freeze water...anywhere, including your brakes.

6. Not sure when your inspection is due or how stringent inspections are in MA., but you might not pass with brakes like that. However, what's more important is your life & your friends, driving a car, at speed, with brakes like that! That makes you dangerous.

There is a reason many got on your case for buying a car like this with this many miles, and particularly in your area (harsh winters, salt on roads, lots of rust) without a thorough check-out before-hand before you 'fell in love with it'. Meaning, you led with your heart instead of your head.

In music, acting & drama, that may work, but not so wise with mechanical devices driven in all types of weather, particularly in the NE. You don't want to be hitching your wagon to someone elses negligence, poor maintenance, and abuse because NOW you're the one (and your friend) who will be financially & emotionally burdened with the previous owners neglect.

Since you don't know much about cars & wrenching, let me give you some advice. In the future you'd be wise to take any vehicle you & your friend are considering to a trusted mechanic and pay him for an evaluation before you fall in love with it.

It also would be a good idea for you to take a piece of paper, draw a long vertical line down the middle, write "HEART" on the left side and "HEAD" on the right side. Go wild with abandon on the left writing down your dreams, passions, why you love it, etc. On the right side, though switch to head mode. Write only reality. Here's where your mechanics inspection notes belong. Include cost to fix. Include ALL major systems: Brakes, Cooling, engine, transmission, tires, fuel, etc. Then add all that up.

NOW you're giving each side its due. HEART and HEAD both have a place on your check-sheet. Neither is being ignored. Now YOU have to deal with the reality on the right side of your chart, realizing that what's written there WILL affect you emotionally AND financially while you own it.

In other words, if you ignore what's on the right side, you'll pay for it. In more ways than one.

Make sense? That's the best way I know how to explain it.

Finally, we're car guys. Gear heads. This IS a site about motor oil after all. Yeah, we actually drink beer and discuss motor oil and not think twice about it. (And most women would roll their eyes, walk off and go 4x4 to the ladies room..)And we love cars. Driving them, thinking about them, washing them, making them shine and taking care of them.

So it breaks our hearts to see them abused, mistreated, and neglected by idiots who use them and then dump them (usually on someone else). That's a shame to us and we get mad about it. In addition, we don't like to see people like yourself get ripped off by said idiots. So when someone asks, we throw a ton of questions at them, hoping (hoping) for all the right answers (yep, checked that. OK. No worries. My indy said good deal, etc.) because we get upset when we hear stories like yours and don't like to hear about people getting ripped off, taken advantage of, suckered, dumped on, etc.

Instead, we'd like to find the idiot who didn't change his brakes, oil, etc for 10 yrs and crown him.

Since we don't know who he is and you spoke up, you get dumped on for buying someone else's neglect. So do yourself a favor when buying anything used that's mechanical or structural (ie house) and fill out the right side of that sheet and weigh it against the left side. You'll save yourself a world of hurt AND a car-load of money.

Thus endith the lesson. . .
 
Well sleddriver, that was quite the lecture.....but no denying that you are correct. I was probably lucky when I was a teenager because unlike a lot of my peers and friends, I WAS willing to listen to the advice offered to me by those much older and with more wisdom. It allowed me to be more successful, avoid more grief, aggrevation ans live a happier life as well.
 
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I see a brake design where the caliper piston is inside and the outer pad floats. GT, how is the inside, all shiny? Something mechanical is screwing up your outer pad, and it mostly comes down to what lets the caliper slide. Put on a rotor and some cheap pads and see how it does. I say cheap pads because they'll wear quickly and keep the rust down.

Now, assuming your inside rotor is shiny and the other three corners are good. Half of the outside means 1/4 of that corner has less braking capacity, or 1/16 of your car. Actually less than that being the rear. Your stopping distances are changed more by weight of luggage in the car or road conditions or brand of brake pad.

IOW, not that big a deal. Kudos for inspecting your brakes and going through the car, safety items first.
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First thing should be strip the brake apart on that corner and get it cleaned up and if you are broke then consider getting somebody to reface the disc to remove the rust, though with the cost of discs and pads these days it may make sense to just replace.

But you need to ensure that caliper is sliding properly, it looks like it is partially siezed and you might be able to get some life out those discs and pads if you clean them up and apply copper grease, note the aerosol stuff you bought is more for cleaning up brake dust etc rather than fix long term neglect.

Maybe a naming and shaming should be performed on the dealer that sold you this pup.
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl

Maybe a naming and shaming should be performed on the dealer that sold you this pup.



He linked to an ad when he got the car. Massachusetts has a consumer protection law where you can get an indepenently performed state inspection in a short period of time after sale (72 hours?) then force the selling dealer to fix any issues. OP was advised during this golden window. This time has passed.
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
First thing should be strip the brake apart on that corner and get it cleaned up and if you are broke then consider getting somebody to reface the disc to remove the rust, though with the cost of discs and pads these days it may make sense to just replace.

But you need to ensure that caliper is sliding properly, it looks like it is partially siezed and you might be able to get some life out those discs and pads if you clean them up and apply copper grease, note the aerosol stuff you bought is more for cleaning up brake dust etc rather than fix long term neglect.

Maybe a naming and shaming should be performed on the dealer that sold you this pup.



This is a most likely course of action. The car is receiving attention THIS WEEK and past. I like your budget-conscious advice.

Our love for this car has only increased, not decreased. I took it on the road just yesterday. Man, is this one strong. (For what it is.)

I will wrench some things myself, if I must. Starting with ABS module.. it affects other systems! Only dropped out ONCE on my friend yesterday with odometer having lines, speedo dropping, the ABS ight comes on, "Feels sluggish." Then returns to normal..

Will probably change partial ATF too (simple procedure with drain plug) and CLEAN UP THAT DISK AND CALIPER. This is the minimum I can do, and when we get more $$$ we will do more. (She performs.. but her band maybe *EDIT: Does - people go with the cheaper option.. not the overpriced Grand Ensemble.. not sure how this was not noticed anytime in the past year plus.. - costs too much, thus affecting the money SHE sees. But, still.. That is not all there is to it, I am sure.)

The point is that the Volvo has entered the budget, and passed Road Trip 101 with flying colors. Next up: Road Trip 102, and the grand finale (MAINE).. Road Trip 103.
 
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
What I will have to do sometime very soon is really spray those pads, then put the grease on them.


Wait...WHAT?

You need to replace those pads AND rotors (the rust is bad, by the time you turn them at $12-15 each, you may not have the minimum thickness) and seriously consider replacing the calipers that look like they're stuck...

Spraying parts on these brakes with cleaner will only waste the cleaner...you can't "grease" your way out of this one...the calipers are not working right and the pads and rotors are shot...regular grease will only make the calipers worse...and regular grease on your pads can result in contamination (no brakes)...

If you're going to grease the pins (only) on the calipers, make sure you use the right grease...but these brakes are in horrible shape...they won't be fixed by any chemical (read: cheap) means...they must be replaced.
 
It pains me to say this, but you really can't ever turn rotors anymore without risking further fast warping, and especially not non-ventilated once such as these.

They just don't have enough stock on them anymore to allow effective turning like we did years ago. They will warp right up again, and even faster next time.

It's a non-issue with the subject vehicle -- both rotors and pads should all be replaced . . . and maybe the calipers too (can't tell from just the pix).

If he's not going to do that, he shouldn't even TOUCH them, as a hack fix can make things even worse.

Just spraying brake cleaner on these . . . waste of time and $.
 
You can't clean up that caliper without stripping out the pads and if you can rotate the caliper back without removing it you can clean up were the caliper a is supposed to slide and were the outer pad should slide, looks like a simple single piston caliper which are known to sieze up, VW, Seat, Skoda and Audi rear calipers would sieze up within a year on a well maintained car, happened to my six month old Toledo back in '99.

Just put the copper grease on the back of pads were they touch the piston and caliper. Then put some more were the end of the pad sits in the calipers.

A fairly easy way to remove rust from calipers is to wrap some emery paper round a flat headed screwdriver.
 
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
What I will have to do sometime very soon is really spray those pads, then put the grease on them.


At a minimum, MINIMUM, take the brakes all apart and see if anything is stuck. You could put it all together like it was and not be behind in the game. You could snap a pin that was frozen, this would be the impetus to buy some new caliper brackets or whatever. You could find where your tough spot is. Or you could find a pad swollen from rust that will grind down, free.

This doesn't release you from a proper (rotor, pad, and probably hardware) job, but it will let you know where you stand, better than just looking at it. FYI I had old rusty pads that were a decade old spontaneously delaminate: rust got at the glue between asbestos and metal backing plate. My fault was I didn't use the brakes ENOUGH and they rusted out before they wore out.

+3 the brake cleaner won't do squat unless you're cleaning old pins in preperation of regreasing them. Autozone etc has little packets of the right hi temp grease for a buck.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Well sleddriver, that was quite the lecture.....but no denying that you are correct. I was probably lucky when I was a teenager because unlike a lot of my peers and friends, I WAS willing to listen to the advice offered to me by those much older and with more wisdom. It allowed me to be more successful, avoid more grief, aggrevation ans live a happier life as well.

Yea, it was. I didn't start out to write all that. But I'm a writer and the fingers take a mind of their own at times, so I went with the flow.

In order to keep from winding up in a similiar hole in the future, one needs to understand how they got there in the first place! Else, you'll automatically do it again..often without realizing it!
 
UPDATE: I have two competing mechanics, the one I met that works "Nissan dealership" and another one my friend met that are willing to help do the whole back axle pads/rotors, and, by extension, calipers/shoes (the guy wants like $100, it is assumed I will have bought the parts.) They still scrape, but, the car still runs well.

I can do the ABS myself. The whole module. I have the guide. The brakes.. Even though it is in the "backyard/driveway" style, I feel the guy knows his stuff, and I may take it to him.

Now, one more Q: That "outer rim," behind the disc. A part of it broke off. The mechanic said "That is just a kind of dirt guard, and isnt really needed." I assume that, when the brakes get done, it will no longer be there at all. True or false?

And yes, everything on this car looks original...

It still feels good, but it will not be going to MAINE without the 1. ABS module (= lights off) and 2. BRAKES. Then we focus on the other thing...
 
Brakes first then ABS, a car can still be safe with non functioning ABS but is not safe with functioning ABS but knackered brakes.
 
That tin thing behind the rotor is there to kind of direct cooling air and kind of keep splashing water off the rotor. They do rust and fall off without obvious consequence. If it were important they'd have used thicker metal.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
That tin thing behind the rotor is there to kind of direct cooling air and kind of keep splashing water off the rotor. They do rust and fall off without obvious consequence. If it were important they'd have used thicker metal.
smile.gif



Dumb question, but does it have a name if i were to ask from the place I buy the brakes pads and rotors from? Is it something that I can buy to assist mr. mechanic when we buckle down and DO this, right in his driveway? (He seemed to know how to take the rotors and pads off, tie-wrap them so they don't touch the ground, etc etc.. How to confirm if the rotor was warped by using a tool to see, also hw to spray rubber lines with silicone.. Rust fell out of insude the brakes on the right side, I know that is completely normal.. I am actually excited to give him a call, to do the rears. I know there was a great link in here to some parts.)

This Volvo will be around awhile. Everyone that sees it? Likes it. Rides nice. So, I get paid Thursday....
 
I am sorry but with that kind of mileage and years, I doubt if the splash guard gets replaced in this region. They all get eaten away by the rust. I am with elje. Besides, GT has other pressing matters where he can use that $112 instead on the two shields.
 
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