Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Try some of these for HD ammo.
Aguila Shotgun Ammo
Some guns have issues ejecting those shorter hulls.
Try some of these for HD ammo.
Aguila Shotgun Ammo
Some guns have issues ejecting those shorter hulls.
Good shotgun for home defense?
- Thread starter leftlane
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: leftlane
I dont mind other options being mentioned. To be fair I did ask if buckshot loads in handguns work well or not which no one has addressed the matter yet.
I assume you mean birdshot/snakeshot? Buckshot is significantly larger in diameter, and I don't think I've seen many pistol rounds that were loaded with it.
I dont mind other options being mentioned. To be fair I did ask if buckshot loads in handguns work well or not which no one has addressed the matter yet.
I assume you mean birdshot/snakeshot? Buckshot is significantly larger in diameter, and I don't think I've seen many pistol rounds that were loaded with it.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Try some of these for HD ammo.
Aguila Shotgun Ammo
Some guns have issues ejecting those shorter hulls.
But you never know until you try some. They work fine in my Mossy 500. And I didn't have to do a thing to it either. Some folks have to adjust the lifter for feeding. never heard of any ejection problems tho.
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Try some of these for HD ammo.
Aguila Shotgun Ammo
Some guns have issues ejecting those shorter hulls.
But you never know until you try some. They work fine in my Mossy 500. And I didn't have to do a thing to it either. Some folks have to adjust the lifter for feeding. never heard of any ejection problems tho.
Last edited:
I'd still rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
Tempest has the best advice about selecting the correct shot size (#3 or 4 buckshot). Back in the 80's, I remember reading a gun magazine article where they performed extensive penetration tests. The #3 or 4 buckshot provided the best compromise. It had enough penetration to deal with heavy coats, body fat, and muscle, but not excessive penetration through typical walls (not windows).
Searching the house is a suicidal tactic. The person who is moving makes all the noise, and they can't watch their own back.
Honestly, I would worry less about issues of overpenetration and stray shots, than I would about making absolutely certain you're not shooting a family member or friend. Once you have clear target identification, shoot at their center of mass until they stop moving towards you (as Forest says). You should shoot only to stop a threat to your life, not with the goal of killing someone.
Searching the house is a suicidal tactic. The person who is moving makes all the noise, and they can't watch their own back.
Honestly, I would worry less about issues of overpenetration and stray shots, than I would about making absolutely certain you're not shooting a family member or friend. Once you have clear target identification, shoot at their center of mass until they stop moving towards you (as Forest says). You should shoot only to stop a threat to your life, not with the goal of killing someone.
Don't say it spray it!! Hot BB load, buck, Hot BB load, Buck...heavy load .357 done! IF they get to you through that type of [censored] fire you might as well have spent the ammo because they are getting everything else anyhow.
So far as #3 or #4 buckshot I saw on another forum that someone using #6 birdshot fired a shell that went thru the wall, the ceiling, and lodged into the 2nd story ceiling. Maybe that wouldnt be enough to kill you on the 2nd floor but it appears that lighter loads will still go thru walls none the less so I'd be hesitant with #3 or #4 if I had any family or apartment neighbors to worry about.
Originally Posted By: leftlane
So far as #3 or #4 buckshot I saw on another forum that someone using #6 birdshot fired a shell that went thru the wall, the ceiling, and lodged into the 2nd story ceiling. Maybe that wouldnt be enough to kill you on the 2nd floor but it appears that lighter loads will still go thru walls none the less so I'd be hesitant with #3 or #4 if I had any family or apartment neighbors to worry about.
Try reading some of what this fella has done as far as penetration goes. Pay particular attention to his closing comments and observations.
Look around the site for info on other than shotgun testing.
The Box "O" Truth
So far as #3 or #4 buckshot I saw on another forum that someone using #6 birdshot fired a shell that went thru the wall, the ceiling, and lodged into the 2nd story ceiling. Maybe that wouldnt be enough to kill you on the 2nd floor but it appears that lighter loads will still go thru walls none the less so I'd be hesitant with #3 or #4 if I had any family or apartment neighbors to worry about.
Try reading some of what this fella has done as far as penetration goes. Pay particular attention to his closing comments and observations.
Look around the site for info on other than shotgun testing.
The Box "O" Truth
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Originally Posted By: leftlane
So far as #3 or #4 buckshot I saw on another forum that someone using #6 birdshot fired a shell that went thru the wall, the ceiling, and lodged into the 2nd story ceiling. Maybe that wouldnt be enough to kill you on the 2nd floor but it appears that lighter loads will still go thru walls none the less so I'd be hesitant with #3 or #4 if I had any family or apartment neighbors to worry about.
Try reading some of what this fella has done as far as penetration goes. Pay particular attention to his closing comments and observations.
Look around the site for info on other than shotgun testing.
The Box "O" Truth
Those tests reinforce what I said about shotguns in close quarters,it takes a fair amount of accuracy to hit as small a target as the human torso is with a pattern only 3 inches wide. I do believe some people choose the shotgun as the "ideal" home defense weapon because they think all you have to do is fire it in the same room the bad guy's in and he'll explode. He sums it up nicely here:
2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.
You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.
Originally Posted By: leftlane
So far as #3 or #4 buckshot I saw on another forum that someone using #6 birdshot fired a shell that went thru the wall, the ceiling, and lodged into the 2nd story ceiling. Maybe that wouldnt be enough to kill you on the 2nd floor but it appears that lighter loads will still go thru walls none the less so I'd be hesitant with #3 or #4 if I had any family or apartment neighbors to worry about.
Try reading some of what this fella has done as far as penetration goes. Pay particular attention to his closing comments and observations.
Look around the site for info on other than shotgun testing.
The Box "O" Truth
Those tests reinforce what I said about shotguns in close quarters,it takes a fair amount of accuracy to hit as small a target as the human torso is with a pattern only 3 inches wide. I do believe some people choose the shotgun as the "ideal" home defense weapon because they think all you have to do is fire it in the same room the bad guy's in and he'll explode. He sums it up nicely here:
2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.
You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.
That's good information, Pete. I stand corrected about the optimum shot size.
Originally Posted By: leftlane
No I meant buckshot but maybe birdshot could work too if close I guess.
Lookie see what I found for ya...
Pistol BUCK (NOT BIRD) shot.
No I meant buckshot but maybe birdshot could work too if close I guess.
Lookie see what I found for ya...
Pistol BUCK (NOT BIRD) shot.
Muzzle Energy: 105 Ft.-lbs.
That's about what a hot .22LR has from a pistol.
To put that in perspective, the typical 9mm is 330ft-lbs or more. Normal .357 magnum is 450 or more.
That's about what a hot .22LR has from a pistol.
To put that in perspective, the typical 9mm is 330ft-lbs or more. Normal .357 magnum is 450 or more.
It shows a shot pattern in that pic but the distance of the shot and spread is not readable. It "says" they have stopping power but 105ftlbs makes you wonder even though that low energy would be good for preventing other people being shot in different rooms. Neat either way.
Pattern is about 2" at 7'.
Even at 105 ft lbs. I don't want to be there when they arrive.
But I never suggested they be used. I was just showing that BUCKSHOT pistol ammo was available.
I load my own variant of this in .357 mag only I use 2 balls and a cardboard wad on the powder. Just watch your friends when they shoot your pistola loaded with them. Where did those 12 holes come from?????
Even at 105 ft lbs. I don't want to be there when they arrive.
But I never suggested they be used. I was just showing that BUCKSHOT pistol ammo was available.
I load my own variant of this in .357 mag only I use 2 balls and a cardboard wad on the powder. Just watch your friends when they shoot your pistola loaded with them. Where did those 12 holes come from?????
leftlane,
It's been noted from past articles that an 20 gauge is fine for defense. Just use a no. 7 shot load. The 410 is a fair only and should be passed-up for the 20 gauge version. For general defense purposes you can get a much cheaper 12 gauge that will do the trick. One doesn't necessarily NEED the higher price Remington or Mossberg.
Durango
It's been noted from past articles that an 20 gauge is fine for defense. Just use a no. 7 shot load. The 410 is a fair only and should be passed-up for the 20 gauge version. For general defense purposes you can get a much cheaper 12 gauge that will do the trick. One doesn't necessarily NEED the higher price Remington or Mossberg.
Durango
Tempest hit it on the head, a .44 blows right through along with all that energy. Great for bears and thick hided animals, not so hot for people. Also, shotguns will penertrate "A wall" not walls, unless you are useing a slug which is a poor choice anyhow, even with buckshot, one wall is about it and it spreads out. Id take a shotgun anyday in the dark, in close quarters over any pistol(even full auto Glock). Imagine a swath of hate about 1'x1' coming at you chances are you are going to get hit and what doesnt hit you is safely "embedded" in the wall behind you. Because without the spin of a spiral barrel there isnt the velocity to keep going with enough energy to penetrate additional walls and strike uninttended targets.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Tempest hit it on the head, a .44 blows right through along with all that energy. Great for bears and thick hided animals, not so hot for people. Also, shotguns will penertrate "A wall" not walls, unless you are useing a slug which is a poor choice anyhow, even with buckshot, one wall is about it and it spreads out. Id take a shotgun anyday in the dark, in close quarters over any pistol(even full auto Glock). Imagine a swath of hate about 1'x1' coming at you chances are you are going to get hit and what doesnt hit you is safely "embedded" in the wall behind you. Because without the spin of a spiral barrel there isnt the velocity to keep going with enough energy to penetrate additional walls and strike uninttended targets.
Check this out.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
This is the entrance wound.
All shots were from a measured 12 feet from the muzzle to the first wall.
Notice that there is an approximate 3 1/2 inch spread.
We will discuss this later.
I then shot a load of Winchester 2 3/4", #1 Buck, 16 pellets.
This round penetrated 6 sheets and bounced off the 7th.
Just like the #4 Buck.
Tempest hit it on the head, a .44 blows right through along with all that energy. Great for bears and thick hided animals, not so hot for people. Also, shotguns will penertrate "A wall" not walls, unless you are useing a slug which is a poor choice anyhow, even with buckshot, one wall is about it and it spreads out. Id take a shotgun anyday in the dark, in close quarters over any pistol(even full auto Glock). Imagine a swath of hate about 1'x1' coming at you chances are you are going to get hit and what doesnt hit you is safely "embedded" in the wall behind you. Because without the spin of a spiral barrel there isnt the velocity to keep going with enough energy to penetrate additional walls and strike uninttended targets.
Check this out.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
This is the entrance wound.
All shots were from a measured 12 feet from the muzzle to the first wall.
Notice that there is an approximate 3 1/2 inch spread.
We will discuss this later.
I then shot a load of Winchester 2 3/4", #1 Buck, 16 pellets.
This round penetrated 6 sheets and bounced off the 7th.
Just like the #4 Buck.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
