Over the last two weeks, I think I’ve read about every forum post on fuel additives in existence. Yet, I’ve never seen a question or an answer that addresses one specific aspect. All of the reputable fuel additives (or at least the ones that everyone seems to use) seem to be meant for periodic use, usually right before an oil change. What I am interested in is just the freedom to go to any gas station and it not be a problem if the gas happens not to be Top Tier. I had two Shell stations between my house and work, and they just replaced them with Casey’s. Plus it just makes sense to me that adding the right amount of detergent during every fill up is a better way of preventing carbon buildup than trying to clear up carbon buildup and also hope one application provides 6-12 months of protection. This question wouldn’t be applicable to anyone that has no trouble with access to Top Tier stations, but I’m hoping someone has run into the issue of not having easy access to good Top Tier gas and found a solution that allows them to pour into the tank at every fill up that essentially makes gas from a place like Casey’s have the same quantity and quality of detergents as gas from Shell or Chevron; nothing more and nothing less. I say “nothing more” because my owner’s manual says “does not recommend the use of any aftermarket fuel additives (for example, fuel injector cleaners, octane booster, intake valve deposit removes, etc). Many of these additives intended for gum, varnish or deposit removal may contain active solvents or similar ingredients that can be harmful to the fuel system and engine.” I realize that would suggest my question has no solution, but I’m hoping someone knows of a solution that literally adds nothing more than the fuel additives that than a Top Tier station would have, so I guess the unicorn I’m hoping exists is a fuel additive with high quality detergents that doesn’t contain any active solvents and is intended (and priced) to be used with every fill up. Many thanks in advance for taking the time to read this long post!
Detergents, no solvents, every fill up
- Thread starter edneum2
- Start date
Redline SI-1 has been used by many as a "maintenance" dose, ie; every fill-up. They use a napthenic distillate, presumably as a carrier, but wouldn't consider it a solvent per se and is safe for continual use. It uses a PEA as the primary cleaning component.
- I believe it was Techron (could be wrong, don't quote me on that) that said that the detergents in their fuel have 10 times less concentration than their additives in the bottle. So I wouldn't put too much hope into the detergents that come out of the pump nozzle. Yes, they're there, but it's such a micro-dose that I highly doubt it makes any positive difference in real world.
- Most Top Tier gas stations near me lost their Top Tier status for whatever reason. Likely financial. So I just go to the most busy gas stations (QuickTrip or BP, as BP gives a nice discount for shopping at Harris Teeter. Up to $1 off per gallon, although my discount is usually 30 cents per gallon.) Since they're busy, their tanks always have fresh fuel. I still never fill up if I see the tanker on site. I know they got filtration systems in place and all that, but I still worry about sediment being picked up from when tankers refill the underground gas station tanks. Likely an old wife's tale, so take it with a grain of salt.
- When I do use additives in fuel - it's a 500:1 dose of TC-W3 2 stroke oil. Or a bottle of Berryman B12. Or Redline SI-1 at maintenance dose.
- Most Top Tier gas stations near me lost their Top Tier status for whatever reason. Likely financial. So I just go to the most busy gas stations (QuickTrip or BP, as BP gives a nice discount for shopping at Harris Teeter. Up to $1 off per gallon, although my discount is usually 30 cents per gallon.) Since they're busy, their tanks always have fresh fuel. I still never fill up if I see the tanker on site. I know they got filtration systems in place and all that, but I still worry about sediment being picked up from when tankers refill the underground gas station tanks. Likely an old wife's tale, so take it with a grain of salt.
- When I do use additives in fuel - it's a 500:1 dose of TC-W3 2 stroke oil. Or a bottle of Berryman B12. Or Redline SI-1 at maintenance dose.
Last edited:
I believe some level of detergents etc. are required in all fuels sold in this country. This eases the urgency of your unicorn hunt.
Techron, mentioned above, is a darling on this board though its "solvent content" has never come up. I believe it has none.
How precisely do you intend dose your fuel? If it's that critical, you should go to the same TT outlet and pray they blend consistently.
Remember, some premium stations claim to exceed TT additive levels.
Can you live with using various fuel sources and just keep a "concentration calculation" running in your head? That's what I do with premium fuel. Both my vehicles run on regular but when I go Interstate, I want the engine to be able to advance its spark as it sees fit.
Regarding manufacturers' warnings against fuel additives: I've always presumed they want to curtail bozos dumping hideous chemicals into their tanks. If a poorly running engine finally sees service, various chems in the tank can complicate diagnosis.
Also, I believe manufacturers are always experimenting with new plastics everywhere in vehicles. They don't want your wife's nail polish remover (acetone) dissolving their newly formulated hoses.
Like they say; don't stick things in your ears and keep junk outta your gas tank.
Techron, mentioned above, is a darling on this board though its "solvent content" has never come up. I believe it has none.
How precisely do you intend dose your fuel? If it's that critical, you should go to the same TT outlet and pray they blend consistently.
Remember, some premium stations claim to exceed TT additive levels.
Can you live with using various fuel sources and just keep a "concentration calculation" running in your head? That's what I do with premium fuel. Both my vehicles run on regular but when I go Interstate, I want the engine to be able to advance its spark as it sees fit.
Regarding manufacturers' warnings against fuel additives: I've always presumed they want to curtail bozos dumping hideous chemicals into their tanks. If a poorly running engine finally sees service, various chems in the tank can complicate diagnosis.
Also, I believe manufacturers are always experimenting with new plastics everywhere in vehicles. They don't want your wife's nail polish remover (acetone) dissolving their newly formulated hoses.
Like they say; don't stick things in your ears and keep junk outta your gas tank.
If you have a menards you can get fuel cleaner right now for $1.75 to stock up on.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/maxlife-fuel-system-cleaner-1-99.376907/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/maxlife-fuel-system-cleaner-1-99.376907/
All fuel sold in the US contains the federally required amount of additive. With regards to carbon buildup (I'm summing you're talking direct injection):
No 1 No additive is going to prevent intake carbon buildup unless the vehicle has port injection.
No 2: Carbon buildup is a boogieman that too many people waste too much time worrying about. It's essentially a non-issue today.
Last edited:
I thought the EPA mandated this. People (and some gasoline suppliers and additive makers) will argue that the EPA only mandates a bare minimum and "cheap" gasoline brands just squeak by and barely meet the standard. We see that Top Tier is fading away and nowadays, I'd bet that more people buy their gas at convenience stores (Speedway, Caseys, Sheetz, etc) or big stores (Kroger, Murphy, etc) than at what were historically known as "gas stations" (BP, Shell, Sunoco, etc). The older-name gas stations still market their fuel quality while the others market their coffee, food, snacks, discount points, and so on.
I have very little car knowledge so this is not me doubting you, this is just me trying to understand... But my understanding was that the move to direct injection is what pushed manufacturers to push for the Top Tier standard... Ie my understanding was not that additives only worked if you had port injection, it was that you only need additives if you don't have port injection. Is this not the case?
Around here Casey's gas is close to donkey pee, so you are on the right track looking for something. I'd be looking for a top tier station somewhere that is workable. In this market Casey's doesn't seem to be any cheaper than anything else to buy, so you'd be adding the additional expense of an additive on top of that.
If I had no choice, I'd just use the Caseys and a healthy shot of Techron before every oil change.
If I had no choice, I'd just use the Caseys and a healthy shot of Techron before every oil change.
Yes, the EPA mandates a minimum dose.
40 CFR § 80.165 is the testing requirement for each additive.
That testing requires:
Intake valve deposit control testing = The required test fuel must produce the accumulation of less than 100 mg of intake valve deposits on average when tested in accordance with ASTM D5500.
Top Tier exceeds this requirement:
The base fuel shall contain enough deposit control additive such that IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves.
This is generally said to be achieved with 3-5x the minimum dose.
So, bottom line is using non-top tier in theory will generate double the IVD over a prescribed time, there would be no motivation for generic gas to do more than this unless they independently are advertising something better.
Running an 'everyday' dose of the good aftermarket additives (Techron, Gumout Regane, Redline SI1 to name the top 3 in my opinion) would accomplish the same or better than the use of top tier.
But that dose would be less than recommended for the 1x every 3000 mi they recommend.
Probably 1/3 -1/5 of the lowest dose they recommend. So techron for example recommends 1oz/gal. I'd do 1oz/5gal if I was doing every tank.
Redline says this: The treatment can be reduced on subsequent fill ups to 1/3-1/6 oz per gallon to provide continual injector and valve cleanliness.
40 CFR § 80.165 is the testing requirement for each additive.
That testing requires:
Intake valve deposit control testing = The required test fuel must produce the accumulation of less than 100 mg of intake valve deposits on average when tested in accordance with ASTM D5500.
Top Tier exceeds this requirement:
The base fuel shall contain enough deposit control additive such that IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves.
This is generally said to be achieved with 3-5x the minimum dose.
So, bottom line is using non-top tier in theory will generate double the IVD over a prescribed time, there would be no motivation for generic gas to do more than this unless they independently are advertising something better.
Running an 'everyday' dose of the good aftermarket additives (Techron, Gumout Regane, Redline SI1 to name the top 3 in my opinion) would accomplish the same or better than the use of top tier.
But that dose would be less than recommended for the 1x every 3000 mi they recommend.
Probably 1/3 -1/5 of the lowest dose they recommend. So techron for example recommends 1oz/gal. I'd do 1oz/5gal if I was doing every tank.
Redline says this: The treatment can be reduced on subsequent fill ups to 1/3-1/6 oz per gallon to provide continual injector and valve cleanliness.
Last edited:
DI injectors can develop carbon on the injector tips which can cause drivability or mpg issues. That's a different subject than carbon buildup on the intake valves. Gasoline additives are needed to keep injector tips clean regardless and from what I've read DI has it's own unique challenges with regards to choice of additive. With port injection gasoline additives would also help keep the back side of the intake valves clean and free of deposits from the PCV system. With the implementation of DI automakers have done a good job of designing PCV systems which strip out a lot of the oil mist so the build up which does occur is minimal and doesn't cause problems.
Automakers also started to use a dual injection system (PI with DI) to help with emissions and the side benefit is that some gasoline does wash over the valve. Early DI engines had problems with non-top tier gasoline. Fast forward 15 years DI more common than PI only so I would assume that the federal min is sufficient. BTW there's a cost associated with the Top Tier cert so just because gasoline isn't sold as Top Tier doesn't mean it wouldn't meet the standards of Top Tier (ex, BP). Personally I'm not a fan of having to deal with micro-doses of an aftermarket additive just so I can buy gas from a local station. I would rather just do the whole bottle treatment every 5k, 10k or 20k miles.
My two cents.
Below is an excerpt of the federal register regarding min additives.
40 CFR § 80.161 - Detergent additive certification program.
Last edited:
My current "fleet" have 140k and 100k miles on them. They've never had TT fuel and never had a fuel additive or treatment. Same gas mileage. Same butt dyno as when they were new. Although, I might throw a bottle in before the next oil change if I have one laying around the garage. If I remember.
Chevron Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner -- 12oz. bottles at Autozone at the moment -- buy 1 get 1 free. Just stocked up yesterday.
If you really believe that brand of gasoline or that station does not have the required minimum additive level it should be reported to your state.
I doubt that the fuel terminal/depot/supplier would be complicit in providing gasoline that's below the EPA-mandated levels. If Caseys (or Speedway or Kroger or whoever) said only put in the bare minimum, that's fine or if Shell says put in 2x the req'd amount of additives, sure, they'll do that too.
I've used Caseys gas a handful of times (they don't have locations real close currently but in a matter of months, there will be 2 on my route to work) with no complaints. In fact, right now I have their Unleaded 88 in my G35. This car really doesn't like 87 octane and loves 93. 89 octane is a good compromise and it runs good with it. I can feel and hear if it's got 87 octane in it (my wife and daughter have done it). It's doing good with this 88 octane in it.
Top Tier certification costs $, but so does the additive used.
In the case of BP, they have information that suggests they meet/or are above Top Tier despite lacking that certification. I choose to trust that.
But the caution is against your Circle K's, Raceways, or no name brand which do not claim anything and are more than likely EPA minimum.
Kirkland gas is on the Top Tier List. Kirkland Signature™ Gasoline contains five times the EPA detergent requirement.
Its 5x minimum, not 5x top tier. And like i've said earlier it likely takes min 3x just to meet Top Tier requirement.
Similar threads
