In addition; fuel trucks have several separate compartments so you can have a name brand gas in one and an off brand in another. When I worked at a gas station many years ago. and had 50 or 100 gallons of premimum left over and our stations tank was full we'd dump the excess premimum into the regular tank. Probably won't find that today as too much greed now. Ed
BP gas pump horror!
- Thread starter ruxCYtable
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I buy RaceTrac gas and use a bottle of Redline every 20k miles.
Never had a problem with any gas, and I don't use any injector cleaners or anything.
But if someone wants to get offended because they pay more for top tier fuel and know it must be better because they've been told it is and find it necessary to chastise me for thinking otherwise, well, whatever then.
Marketing is a cruel mistress.
But if someone wants to get offended because they pay more for top tier fuel and know it must be better because they've been told it is and find it necessary to chastise me for thinking otherwise, well, whatever then.
Marketing is a cruel mistress.
Thing is it is NOT just marketing, the top tier specifications REQUIRE that the gas contains much higher concentrations of detergency compared to the EPA standards, this is NOT marketing it is a fact.
Recent consumer tests conducted by various media outlets confirm that there is a huge variation in the amount of detergents in various brands of fuel. Top Tier certified brands are the ones with the most detergents by a significant percentage. And in turn those extra detergents excel at greatly reducing carbon deposits in engines and fuel systems.
Recent consumer tests conducted by various media outlets confirm that there is a huge variation in the amount of detergents in various brands of fuel. Top Tier certified brands are the ones with the most detergents by a significant percentage. And in turn those extra detergents excel at greatly reducing carbon deposits in engines and fuel systems.
OK, flip the arguement around. We all agree that Top Tier requires higher levels of detergency than the governement minimums. We can all agree that is not marketing, but fact.
The real question is whether the Top tier requirements are necessary to maintain a clean, fully funtioning engine over the long run or is that claim for marketing purposes.
My experience (admittedly all with automotive manufacturers that do NOT participate in the Top Tier program) is that it is not necessary.
Reality is that the source of fuel in every market may vary. In some places, all the fuel may be from the same source with different additives. In other locations, it may be from different sources with different additives too. The latter is the case here, with certian supplies readily apparent, others less clear.
Gas tankers are compartmentalized, so it is not unusual for a tanker to stop at one gas station, then go to another with a different brand and deliver there too. The actual fuel being delivered at each station may have different additives in it.
The BP card isn't as good as it used to be, but so long as you pump the full 20 gallons with the discount, you can make out at around 2.6 or 2.7% or so, as I recall.
The real question is whether the Top tier requirements are necessary to maintain a clean, fully funtioning engine over the long run or is that claim for marketing purposes.
My experience (admittedly all with automotive manufacturers that do NOT participate in the Top Tier program) is that it is not necessary.
Reality is that the source of fuel in every market may vary. In some places, all the fuel may be from the same source with different additives. In other locations, it may be from different sources with different additives too. The latter is the case here, with certian supplies readily apparent, others less clear.
Gas tankers are compartmentalized, so it is not unusual for a tanker to stop at one gas station, then go to another with a different brand and deliver there too. The actual fuel being delivered at each station may have different additives in it.
The BP card isn't as good as it used to be, but so long as you pump the full 20 gallons with the discount, you can make out at around 2.6 or 2.7% or so, as I recall.
I agree that top tier isn't necessary for the most part. When I pulled the heads on the Jeep at 119k, after 100k of unknown gas from the previous owners and 19k of me putting in the cheapest 93 octane I could find, there was just minor carbon on the pistons, valves looked good, combustion chambers were pretty clean. The insides of the exhaust manifolds didn't even have a hint of carbon in them.
Remember that the Top Tier requirements are for specific makes. That Jeep had no issues, perhaps the design is tolerant of low detergent gas, you yourself mention you don't really know where the fuel was purchased perhaps it was using a HD fuel, maybe not. As engine design tolerances get tighter the need for high detergent gasoline becomes greater.
I'll trust the car manufacturing engineers that pushed for the higher detergent fuel products over the few anecdotal examples a few random posters put here.
I'll trust the car manufacturing engineers that pushed for the higher detergent fuel products over the few anecdotal examples a few random posters put here.
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Originally Posted By: MNgopher
The real question is whether the Top tier requirements are necessary to maintain a clean, fully funtioning engine over the long run or is that claim for marketing purposes.
My experience (admittedly all with automotive manufacturers that do NOT participate in the Top Tier program) is that it is not necessary.
That's all quite right. The advantage I see to the Top Tier program is to actually provide a list of gas stations that provide a product of a minimum standard quality. Here in Canada, virtually all the Top Tier stations are the big names and readily identifiable to people. Those who follow the common sense rule of buying from well known stations with fairly brisk sales are going to wind up buying from one of them anyhow.
We do have a few no name type gas stations. They're somewhat common and often have pretty bad gas. Word of mouth spreads, and those who care buy elsewhere.
However, with respect to American stations, there are a lot of Top Tier stations that I've never heard of. I may simply be ignorant, or some of these stations may not be bigger names, and they certainly could benefit from being attached to this minimum standard of gasoline quality. If I grab a name like CountryMark, that doesn't mean much to me, as opposed to, say, Mobil or 76 or Texaco. With CountryMark being Top Tier, I would consider it safe to assume that they have good gas.
The real question is whether the Top tier requirements are necessary to maintain a clean, fully funtioning engine over the long run or is that claim for marketing purposes.
My experience (admittedly all with automotive manufacturers that do NOT participate in the Top Tier program) is that it is not necessary.
That's all quite right. The advantage I see to the Top Tier program is to actually provide a list of gas stations that provide a product of a minimum standard quality. Here in Canada, virtually all the Top Tier stations are the big names and readily identifiable to people. Those who follow the common sense rule of buying from well known stations with fairly brisk sales are going to wind up buying from one of them anyhow.
We do have a few no name type gas stations. They're somewhat common and often have pretty bad gas. Word of mouth spreads, and those who care buy elsewhere.
However, with respect to American stations, there are a lot of Top Tier stations that I've never heard of. I may simply be ignorant, or some of these stations may not be bigger names, and they certainly could benefit from being attached to this minimum standard of gasoline quality. If I grab a name like CountryMark, that doesn't mean much to me, as opposed to, say, Mobil or 76 or Texaco. With CountryMark being Top Tier, I would consider it safe to assume that they have good gas.
Why its marketing and not fact:
Do all these extra additives actually do anything to make paying extra for them worthwhile? And "more must be better" is not an answer. Referring to Consumer Reports saying cheap gas ruins your car isn't either. I'm talking proof.
Additives are maybe a penny a gallon and people are paying (sometimes) ten times that for "top tier fuel".
Its marketing. The fact everyone shouts its not is funny. You seriously think oil companies are just doing you a favor by selling licensing rights to Top Tier to companies who dump a few extra additives in the tanks?
Bearing in mind we went from:
Quote:
Consumer Reports just did a report on America's favorite gas station and its Shell once again. But in the article they did show their experiments and the valves pulled on engines showed way more deposits when the cars were driven on no-name gas.
To:
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Remember that the Top Tier requirements are for specific makes. That Jeep had no issues, perhaps the design is tolerant of low detergent gas, you yourself mention you don't really know where the fuel was purchased perhaps it was using a HD fuel, maybe not. As engine design tolerances get tighter the need for high detergent gasoline becomes greater.
I'll trust the car manufacturing engineers that pushed for the higher detergent fuel products over the few anecdotal examples a few random posters put here.
I think the reality is if your specific car needs special fuel to work correctly, thats an engineering problem. There's plenty of cars out there that run just fine on regular gas from any regular station and they don't explode, catch fire, or give you herpes, so obviously regular gas runs fine in a regular car...
antiqueshell is just making sure everyone knows if you run one of those special cars that need special gas you'd better pay more and get Top Tier fuel, or Consumer Reports says you might end up with a ruined engine.
I wanna see a car manufacturer REQUIRE Top Tier, then this all makes sense. Until then, its marketing. Your primary worry about buying gas is getting bad gas, like water in fuel issues, and that happens anywhere.
Reality is: you can maybe trust a big company more to be more strict about monitoring issues like water in their fuel, because they don't like lawsuits. Thats all I can see as evidence of Top Tier standards.
Companys that can pay the couple of grand to rock a "Top Tier" label probably aren't broke in the first place running a Ma and Pa's gas stop.
Do all these extra additives actually do anything to make paying extra for them worthwhile? And "more must be better" is not an answer. Referring to Consumer Reports saying cheap gas ruins your car isn't either. I'm talking proof.
Additives are maybe a penny a gallon and people are paying (sometimes) ten times that for "top tier fuel".
Its marketing. The fact everyone shouts its not is funny. You seriously think oil companies are just doing you a favor by selling licensing rights to Top Tier to companies who dump a few extra additives in the tanks?
Bearing in mind we went from:
Quote:
Consumer Reports just did a report on America's favorite gas station and its Shell once again. But in the article they did show their experiments and the valves pulled on engines showed way more deposits when the cars were driven on no-name gas.
To:
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Remember that the Top Tier requirements are for specific makes. That Jeep had no issues, perhaps the design is tolerant of low detergent gas, you yourself mention you don't really know where the fuel was purchased perhaps it was using a HD fuel, maybe not. As engine design tolerances get tighter the need for high detergent gasoline becomes greater.
I'll trust the car manufacturing engineers that pushed for the higher detergent fuel products over the few anecdotal examples a few random posters put here.
I think the reality is if your specific car needs special fuel to work correctly, thats an engineering problem. There's plenty of cars out there that run just fine on regular gas from any regular station and they don't explode, catch fire, or give you herpes, so obviously regular gas runs fine in a regular car...
antiqueshell is just making sure everyone knows if you run one of those special cars that need special gas you'd better pay more and get Top Tier fuel, or Consumer Reports says you might end up with a ruined engine.
I wanna see a car manufacturer REQUIRE Top Tier, then this all makes sense. Until then, its marketing. Your primary worry about buying gas is getting bad gas, like water in fuel issues, and that happens anywhere.
Reality is: you can maybe trust a big company more to be more strict about monitoring issues like water in their fuel, because they don't like lawsuits. Thats all I can see as evidence of Top Tier standards.
Companys that can pay the couple of grand to rock a "Top Tier" label probably aren't broke in the first place running a Ma and Pa's gas stop.
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Since Shell is the same as others nearby AND it is Top Tier I buy it.
If it cost more, I would get the next closest name brand, Sunoco. Which I did when Sunoco 1st popped up recently and was $0.10 cheaper for Premium. Now it matched the others, I go across the street to Shell. Their marketing works on me since competitive. If it doesn't do more, so what I lose nothing. Rutters no name is the same. Hess actually cost more than those two.
If it cost more, I would get the next closest name brand, Sunoco. Which I did when Sunoco 1st popped up recently and was $0.10 cheaper for Premium. Now it matched the others, I go across the street to Shell. Their marketing works on me since competitive. If it doesn't do more, so what I lose nothing. Rutters no name is the same. Hess actually cost more than those two.
I don't know about the Top Tier hype. We don't have any of those stations here anyway, except for one Chevron station downtown that plays the "extra charge per gallon if you do not pay cash or use a Chevron credit card" game. I will not buy any gas from any station that uses that gimmick to rip people off. We just use Marathon or 7-11 gas, and sometimes my wife will buy a tank of gas at the local Cumberland Farms store. I have read their gas is supposed to be from Gulf and that Gulf owns all of the Cumby Farms stores. We have never had any problems with any of the gas we buy. My wife has a co-worker that had driveability problems with two separate tanks of Hess gas though. We don't buy any gas from Hess.
Not saying this is the case anymore, but I know for certain some of the name stations were pumped the same gas as the no-name places in years past. This I am 100% sure of, I had known a station owner and a supplier, and also known someone who used to be security at a transfer station or whatever it would be considered where they store the fuel before it would be pumped into trucks. Not only was that done years ago, they used to run out of a certain octane when pumping into trucks and then just top it off with another octane. There very well could be more rules and accountability of things like this now, but this was happening years back, and I don't care what anyone else has to say about it because I have witnessed it first hand in the past.
The mom & pop independents can purchase the same gas with the same detergent additive package that gets delivered to the major name brand gas stations (Texaco, Shell, Exxon, etc), they just have to pay the higher price for it.
My best buddy owned an independent station for several years. He had the largest tanks in the city and was able to work a discount deal with the distributor that allowed any tanker that had fuel left over dump it in his tanks so that they didn't have to drive back to the depot with the gas.
My best buddy owned an independent station for several years. He had the largest tanks in the city and was able to work a discount deal with the distributor that allowed any tanker that had fuel left over dump it in his tanks so that they didn't have to drive back to the depot with the gas.
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Why its marketing and not fact:
Do all these extra additives actually do anything to make paying extra for them worthwhile? And "more must be better" is not an answer. Referring to Consumer Reports saying cheap gas ruins your car isn't either. I'm talking proof.
Yes, PEA has been independently tested (private labs and EPA labs) and shown to be much more effective than other detergents at cleaning deposits (carbon and competitors deposits off of engine mechanicals. Contact Chevron for the printed test results.
Quote:
Additives are maybe a penny a gallon and people are paying (sometimes) ten times that for "top tier fuel".
A bit more than that, especially for the truly effective ones like PEA.
Quote:
Its marketing. The fact everyone shouts its not is funny. You seriously think oil companies are just doing you a favor by selling licensing rights to Top Tier to companies who dump a few extra additives in the tanks?
The oil companies didn't create the idea of top tier level of detergents, the auto manufacturers did, partly because it was found through THEIR testing that the EPA minimum detergency was mostly INEFFECTIVE at cleaning deposits from engines resulting in poor performance and reduced MPGs and INCREASED emissions as well, and also because CONSUMERS reported perormance issues as well.
Quote:
Bearing in mind we went from:
]Consumer Reports just did a report on America's favorite gas station and its Shell once again. But in the article they did show their experiments and the valves pulled on engines showed way more deposits when the cars were driven on no-name gas.
To:
Remember that the Top Tier requirements are for specific makes. That Jeep had no issues, perhaps the design is tolerant of low detergent gas, you yourself mention you don't really know where the fuel was purchased perhaps it was using a HD fuel, maybe not. As engine design tolerances get tighter the need for high detergent gasoline becomes greater.
I'll trust the car manufacturing engineers that pushed for the higher detergent fuel products over the few anecdotal examples a few random posters put here.
I think the reality is if your specific car needs special fuel to work correctly, thats an engineering problem. There's plenty of cars out there that run just fine on regular gas from any regular station and they don't explode, catch fire, or give you herpes, so obviously regular gas runs fine in a regular car...
antiqueshell is just making sure everyone knows if you run one of those special cars that need special gas you'd better pay more and get Top Tier fuel, or Consumer Reports says you might end up with a ruined engine.
You are looking at this through the eyes of an uneducated consumer. The truth is that US automotive pump gas tends to be less refined and higher in impurities than say gas from Europe or Japan.
Those import makers are NOT going to create a completely different engine just to suit one market nor should they. While it is unlikely that you will destroy an engine on lower detergent gas it is probable that you'll end up with long term drivability/performance issues.
Quote:
I wanna see a car manufacturer REQUIRE Top Tier, then this all makes sense. Until then, its marketing. Your primary worry about buying gas is getting bad gas, like water in fuel issues, and that happens anywhere.
The fact that the manufactures SUGGEST using higher detergent gas in their cars is enough. Engineers know that a higher detergent level in close tolerance engines that were designed to use a more pure fuel will likely fare better in the long run.
Quote:
Reality is: you can maybe trust a big company more to be more strict about monitoring issues like water in their fuel, because they don't like lawsuits. Thats all I can see as evidence of Top Tier standards.
Companys that can pay the couple of grand to rock a "Top Tier" label probably aren't broke in the first place running a Ma and Pa's gas stop.
As far as price goes at least most of the places I've been you can get regular top tier for the same price as non top tier or in some cases at some of the minor brands for even less. That is a good deal to me.
Why its marketing and not fact:
Do all these extra additives actually do anything to make paying extra for them worthwhile? And "more must be better" is not an answer. Referring to Consumer Reports saying cheap gas ruins your car isn't either. I'm talking proof.
Yes, PEA has been independently tested (private labs and EPA labs) and shown to be much more effective than other detergents at cleaning deposits (carbon and competitors deposits off of engine mechanicals. Contact Chevron for the printed test results.
Quote:
Additives are maybe a penny a gallon and people are paying (sometimes) ten times that for "top tier fuel".
A bit more than that, especially for the truly effective ones like PEA.
Quote:
Its marketing. The fact everyone shouts its not is funny. You seriously think oil companies are just doing you a favor by selling licensing rights to Top Tier to companies who dump a few extra additives in the tanks?
The oil companies didn't create the idea of top tier level of detergents, the auto manufacturers did, partly because it was found through THEIR testing that the EPA minimum detergency was mostly INEFFECTIVE at cleaning deposits from engines resulting in poor performance and reduced MPGs and INCREASED emissions as well, and also because CONSUMERS reported perormance issues as well.
Quote:
Bearing in mind we went from:
]Consumer Reports just did a report on America's favorite gas station and its Shell once again. But in the article they did show their experiments and the valves pulled on engines showed way more deposits when the cars were driven on no-name gas.
To:
Remember that the Top Tier requirements are for specific makes. That Jeep had no issues, perhaps the design is tolerant of low detergent gas, you yourself mention you don't really know where the fuel was purchased perhaps it was using a HD fuel, maybe not. As engine design tolerances get tighter the need for high detergent gasoline becomes greater.
I'll trust the car manufacturing engineers that pushed for the higher detergent fuel products over the few anecdotal examples a few random posters put here.
I think the reality is if your specific car needs special fuel to work correctly, thats an engineering problem. There's plenty of cars out there that run just fine on regular gas from any regular station and they don't explode, catch fire, or give you herpes, so obviously regular gas runs fine in a regular car...
antiqueshell is just making sure everyone knows if you run one of those special cars that need special gas you'd better pay more and get Top Tier fuel, or Consumer Reports says you might end up with a ruined engine.
You are looking at this through the eyes of an uneducated consumer. The truth is that US automotive pump gas tends to be less refined and higher in impurities than say gas from Europe or Japan.
Those import makers are NOT going to create a completely different engine just to suit one market nor should they. While it is unlikely that you will destroy an engine on lower detergent gas it is probable that you'll end up with long term drivability/performance issues.
Quote:
I wanna see a car manufacturer REQUIRE Top Tier, then this all makes sense. Until then, its marketing. Your primary worry about buying gas is getting bad gas, like water in fuel issues, and that happens anywhere.
The fact that the manufactures SUGGEST using higher detergent gas in their cars is enough. Engineers know that a higher detergent level in close tolerance engines that were designed to use a more pure fuel will likely fare better in the long run.
Quote:
Reality is: you can maybe trust a big company more to be more strict about monitoring issues like water in their fuel, because they don't like lawsuits. Thats all I can see as evidence of Top Tier standards.
Companys that can pay the couple of grand to rock a "Top Tier" label probably aren't broke in the first place running a Ma and Pa's gas stop.
As far as price goes at least most of the places I've been you can get regular top tier for the same price as non top tier or in some cases at some of the minor brands for even less. That is a good deal to me.
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Originally Posted By: wag123
The mom & pop independents can purchase the same gas with the same detergent additive package that gets delivered to the major name brand gas stations (Texaco, Shell, Exxon, etc), they just have to pay the higher price for it.
My best buddy owned an independent station for several years. He had the largest tanks in the city and was able to work a discount deal with the distributor that allowed any tanker that had fuel left over dump it in his tanks so that they didn't have to drive back to the depot with the gas.
Unless something has changed, there are no gallon meters on gasoline delivery trucks, just gravity drain. We would stick our inground tanks and make sure there was room for the full amount that we ordered. The measuring is at the loading rack at the terminal and the gallonage is stamped on the invoice. (COD also)
The driver also sticks the tanks before delivery and compares the results to his load chart. If he can't dump the entire invoiced amount into the ground tank, the entire compartment load goes back to the terminal for credit. (there was also a return charge for not being able to take the gasoline that was ordered). It's all invoiced and tightly controlled.
The mom & pop independents can purchase the same gas with the same detergent additive package that gets delivered to the major name brand gas stations (Texaco, Shell, Exxon, etc), they just have to pay the higher price for it.
My best buddy owned an independent station for several years. He had the largest tanks in the city and was able to work a discount deal with the distributor that allowed any tanker that had fuel left over dump it in his tanks so that they didn't have to drive back to the depot with the gas.
Unless something has changed, there are no gallon meters on gasoline delivery trucks, just gravity drain. We would stick our inground tanks and make sure there was room for the full amount that we ordered. The measuring is at the loading rack at the terminal and the gallonage is stamped on the invoice. (COD also)
The driver also sticks the tanks before delivery and compares the results to his load chart. If he can't dump the entire invoiced amount into the ground tank, the entire compartment load goes back to the terminal for credit. (there was also a return charge for not being able to take the gasoline that was ordered). It's all invoiced and tightly controlled.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yes, PEA has been independently tested (private labs and EPA labs) and shown to be much more effective than other detergents at cleaning deposits (carbon and competitors deposits off of engine mechanicals. Contact Chevron for the printed test results.
Ah, PEA works. So do all other EPA mandated additives. One thing antiqueshell didn't say though, was if the extra additives over the mandatory minimum actually make any difference.
Let alone the fact that I have never heard Top Tier requires PEA and lots of it, so yeah you're right, now prove Top Tier fuel has an amount in it that does any good in a car. Too much is as bad as too little because its a needless waste.
I'd argue they don't, but I'm an uneducated consumer. Trust experts online like antiqueshell who now seem to be of the course of thought that only import cars from Europe and Japan which obviously aren't designed properly to run in this country, need Top Tier gas, or they might in the future, have engine deposits.
No way a bottle of Techron can't fix that, but who am I to say, I buy the cheapest gas possible and have never had an issue, so, I must be an idiot.
antiqueshell is an expert; trust him. And buy domestic cars because apparently they run good on any gas and don't suddenly need special high-detergent fuel to survive.
My $0.02
Yes, PEA has been independently tested (private labs and EPA labs) and shown to be much more effective than other detergents at cleaning deposits (carbon and competitors deposits off of engine mechanicals. Contact Chevron for the printed test results.
Ah, PEA works. So do all other EPA mandated additives. One thing antiqueshell didn't say though, was if the extra additives over the mandatory minimum actually make any difference.
Let alone the fact that I have never heard Top Tier requires PEA and lots of it, so yeah you're right, now prove Top Tier fuel has an amount in it that does any good in a car. Too much is as bad as too little because its a needless waste.
I'd argue they don't, but I'm an uneducated consumer. Trust experts online like antiqueshell who now seem to be of the course of thought that only import cars from Europe and Japan which obviously aren't designed properly to run in this country, need Top Tier gas, or they might in the future, have engine deposits.
No way a bottle of Techron can't fix that, but who am I to say, I buy the cheapest gas possible and have never had an issue, so, I must be an idiot.
antiqueshell is an expert; trust him. And buy domestic cars because apparently they run good on any gas and don't suddenly need special high-detergent fuel to survive.
My $0.02
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Originally Posted By: tommygunn
No way a bottle of Techron can't fix that, but who am I to say, I buy the cheapest gas possible and have never had an issue, so, I must be an idiot.
I understand your skepticism. I'm sure I'd be as hesitant as you are if our Top Tier gas cost more than non-Top Tier gas.
Being here, though, we all have to appreciate that we try to go the extra mile, one way or another, in caring for our cars. When everyone here runs the cheapest specified oil and filter combination available for the longest possible OCI, then I'll worry about the added value of Top Tier.
My primary concern is a station having fairly high sales volume, then after that consideration, whether or not it's Top Tier. There certainly are Top Tier stations in this province from whom I'd rather not buy premium, for instance - they're in the sticks and sell very little premium. Would I rather buy two or three month old Esso Top Tier premium or fresh "regular" premium from Husky?
The sales volume has always been the nagging issue in my head. The local Husky truck stop got rid of premium a few years back because of low sales. They only brought it back because head office came out with a new edict of what grades will be available at all locations.
No way a bottle of Techron can't fix that, but who am I to say, I buy the cheapest gas possible and have never had an issue, so, I must be an idiot.
I understand your skepticism. I'm sure I'd be as hesitant as you are if our Top Tier gas cost more than non-Top Tier gas.
Being here, though, we all have to appreciate that we try to go the extra mile, one way or another, in caring for our cars. When everyone here runs the cheapest specified oil and filter combination available for the longest possible OCI, then I'll worry about the added value of Top Tier.
My primary concern is a station having fairly high sales volume, then after that consideration, whether or not it's Top Tier. There certainly are Top Tier stations in this province from whom I'd rather not buy premium, for instance - they're in the sticks and sell very little premium. Would I rather buy two or three month old Esso Top Tier premium or fresh "regular" premium from Husky?
The sales volume has always been the nagging issue in my head. The local Husky truck stop got rid of premium a few years back because of low sales. They only brought it back because head office came out with a new edict of what grades will be available at all locations.
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Ah, PEA works. So do all other EPA mandated additives. One thing antiqueshell didn't say though, was if the extra additives over the mandatory minimum actually make any difference.
Consumer Reports found that the extra detergents DID make a significant difference. They are a not for profit ...so they have no stake in coming to one conclusion or the other.
Quote:
Let alone the fact that I have never heard Top Tier requires PEA and lots of it, so yeah you're right, now prove Top Tier fuel has an amount in it that does any good in a car. Too much is as bad as too little because its a needless waste.
It obviously does because the car makers tested to make sure that it meet their standards, it keeps the car makers from having added warranty claims or more dissatisfied customers. It's in those manufacturers interests that the extra detergents in Top Tier does what it is supposed to do.
Quote:
I'd argue they don't, but I'm an uneducated consumer. Trust experts online like antiqueshell who now seem to be of the course of thought that only import cars from Europe and Japan which obviously aren't designed properly to run in this country, need Top Tier gas, or they might in the future, have engine deposits.
The truth is that since European/ Japan spec gasoline is a bit different and burns cleaner, so it makes sense that the import engineers originally designed the engines to conditions of that gas formula, now I think over the past decade this has changed a bit, luckily some of the impurities are being reduced as well in US gasoline but it still is not as "clean" burning as EU spec.
Quote:
No way a bottle of Techron can't fix that, but who am I to say, I buy the cheapest gas possible and have never had an issue, so, I must be an idiot.
Who's to say that "cheapest gas" isn't a top tier brand, many smaller labels are top tier but they may not label it at the stations as being so. We have Quick Trip here and while their gas is top tier they do not push that fact.
Quote:
antiqueshell is an expert; trust him. And buy domestic cars because apparently they run good on any gas and don't suddenly need special high-detergent fuel to survive.
My $0.02
It's quite possible that domestically designed engines and fuel systems might be more tolerant of less pure gasoline, I certain think that it makes sense.
Well your .02 might be worth a penny more, right?
Ah, PEA works. So do all other EPA mandated additives. One thing antiqueshell didn't say though, was if the extra additives over the mandatory minimum actually make any difference.
Consumer Reports found that the extra detergents DID make a significant difference. They are a not for profit ...so they have no stake in coming to one conclusion or the other.
Quote:
Let alone the fact that I have never heard Top Tier requires PEA and lots of it, so yeah you're right, now prove Top Tier fuel has an amount in it that does any good in a car. Too much is as bad as too little because its a needless waste.
It obviously does because the car makers tested to make sure that it meet their standards, it keeps the car makers from having added warranty claims or more dissatisfied customers. It's in those manufacturers interests that the extra detergents in Top Tier does what it is supposed to do.
Quote:
I'd argue they don't, but I'm an uneducated consumer. Trust experts online like antiqueshell who now seem to be of the course of thought that only import cars from Europe and Japan which obviously aren't designed properly to run in this country, need Top Tier gas, or they might in the future, have engine deposits.
The truth is that since European/ Japan spec gasoline is a bit different and burns cleaner, so it makes sense that the import engineers originally designed the engines to conditions of that gas formula, now I think over the past decade this has changed a bit, luckily some of the impurities are being reduced as well in US gasoline but it still is not as "clean" burning as EU spec.
Quote:
No way a bottle of Techron can't fix that, but who am I to say, I buy the cheapest gas possible and have never had an issue, so, I must be an idiot.
Who's to say that "cheapest gas" isn't a top tier brand, many smaller labels are top tier but they may not label it at the stations as being so. We have Quick Trip here and while their gas is top tier they do not push that fact.
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antiqueshell is an expert; trust him. And buy domestic cars because apparently they run good on any gas and don't suddenly need special high-detergent fuel to survive.
My $0.02
It's quite possible that domestically designed engines and fuel systems might be more tolerant of less pure gasoline, I certain think that it makes sense.
Well your .02 might be worth a penny more, right?
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Originally Posted By: Timothy Ferguson
A little bubble bursts here to go over. One BP no longer offer 5% on their credit card that has changed at the beginning of Mar. I received my new card just before then. The terms are different check ito out here: New BP Pump Rewards Link Two BP is not Top Tier but I am a firm believer in Top Tier fuels and believe that BP could meet the requirement if they were willing to pay in to the program. Three gas tankers can have as much as three different compartments in the truck to contain different brands/grades of fuel. Nothing going here at all I'm sure you are getting your BP fuel. And last all gas in the country has a 10% blend of ethanol unless you pump specifically states no alcohol.
I'm still getting 5% on my Chase BP card. I haven't received a notification of it expiring, or a new card.
A little bubble bursts here to go over. One BP no longer offer 5% on their credit card that has changed at the beginning of Mar. I received my new card just before then. The terms are different check ito out here: New BP Pump Rewards Link Two BP is not Top Tier but I am a firm believer in Top Tier fuels and believe that BP could meet the requirement if they were willing to pay in to the program. Three gas tankers can have as much as three different compartments in the truck to contain different brands/grades of fuel. Nothing going here at all I'm sure you are getting your BP fuel. And last all gas in the country has a 10% blend of ethanol unless you pump specifically states no alcohol.
I'm still getting 5% on my Chase BP card. I haven't received a notification of it expiring, or a new card.
Sorry but everyone has made the change. No one is earning 5% anymore. You need to read your TOS a lot harder because the change like I said went active in Mar. Everyone was sent a letter and new cards. You should call the CS number on back of card and ask they should tell you what I'm telling you. This was not a grandfathered plan.
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