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Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5098160 05/07/19 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by pandus13
Michigan fast: Posted speed is 70-75mph. The slow lane is at least +10 (If you are an owner operator semi), usually driving 20 over. Unless there is construction slowdown...


That's odd. My experience in Indiana with Michigan-plated vehicles, they all drive in the left lane only, with the cruise set on 70 regardless of the posted limit and regardless of how fast traffic is moving, like they own that B. I've seen at least 10-car trains behind Michigan plates with people passing on the right because they won't move over out of the left lane!
spank

Those are the Sunday I'm-going-nowhere "cruisers". You where lucky they where driving even 70. Usually drive in pairs (blocking both lanes) and between 50-65.


16 Golf SportWagen
13 Mazda5
08 Yaris
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95 accent
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Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: LoneRanger] #5098168 05/07/19 08:35 AM
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A little of bit context from the place this all started.

Here in Europe we have mandatory fuel economy and CO2 emissions testing and reporting. Until recently this was tested using the "New European Drive Cycle" (NEDC). Within this cycle there are several periods where the vehicle stops and waits. Hence, to improve the numbers, start-stop was introduced. The cycle also starts from a cold engine and barely works the engine very hard, so oil temps take a while to get up - every little bit of saving is worth it since there are fines for emitting too much CO2 and gains to be had from a car citing a better FE number.

Cars have been stop-starting here for years. There are various parameters to control how and when it happens: eg if the cabin temp gets too high or low it will restart (or not stop), if the battery voltage is too low it won't stop, if the engine temp is low it won't stop, if the ambient temp is too low it won't stop and so on.

In a previous car with a manual gearbox it stopped if you put it in neutral and lifted the clutch, and the road speed was below about 3 mph. If you started rolling and exceeded this speed, the engine would start. As soon as you pushed the clutch to engage 1st, it would start. In my current auto-boxed car it stops if you go below 3 mph with your foot on the brake at a moderate pressure. As soon as you release the brake pedal it will start. If I roll to a stop on a very light brake pedal pressure it won't stop the engine.

My current start-up procedure is to turn the ignition on, wait for the self-check to complete, push the button to disable the start-stop and then start the engine - it is muscle memory now. I don't like it and will only use it if I know I will be stationary for any length of time. Most of my journeys are out of town so little to be gained as there are few times that it might actually cut in. I occasionally have to make a quick getaway from a blind junction onto a fast road - the small delay whilst the engine restarts could be critical (and on a small number of occasions on my last car, it failed to restart and I had to cycle the ignition to get going).

There have been reports of start-stop increasing the failure rate of dual-mass flywheels, but this is anecdotal.


2017 SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology DSG
2018 Volvo XC60 D4
2011 KTM 990 SMT
Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: BobsArmory] #5098192 05/07/19 08:57 AM
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Srt20 Offline
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Originally Posted by BobsArmory
The part that gives me the creeps is when I'm driving hard down the Highway in the middle of summer, exit then quickly come to a stop at the end of the exit ramp. Oil is hot the turbo is spinning like a top on steroids and the oil pressure just dropped to 0 PSI. That can't be good.


1. Boost has to come down as you are slowing. So no your turbo isnt spinning like a top.
2. Just because you are driving fast doesnt mean its providing boost.
3. Modern turbos are ball-bearing. They need very little oil to lubricate. And they dont need pressure, just oil.

Turbos are the last thing I'd even think about with start stop systems.

Last edited by Srt20; 05/07/19 09:03 AM.
Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: LoneRanger] #5098199 05/07/19 09:01 AM
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I have a 2018 F150 eco with ESS, and I do find it annoying. Its just not very refined.
I also have a 2018 Jeep Wrangler 2.0T with ESS, and its extremely smooth in it. It has the mild hybrid stuff, so the ESS doesnt use the starter. Its actually a very good system. IDK about the longevity of the mild hybrid components, but I guess I'll find out.

Im not for or against ESS, it is what it is.

Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: LoneRanger] #5098256 05/07/19 10:15 AM
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Rumble Offline
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I used a crude form of start/stop during the 1974 fuel crisis with my 1957 Chevrolet "150" 2-dr sedan. I would cut the engine off and shift the 3-speed manual (column) trans to neutral and coast up to stops signs, then put in gear just before coming to a complete stop and restart. It was hard times, and did what we had to in order to survive, lol. drive


'19 Toyota 4Runner SR5, factory fill
'79 Cadillac Coupe de Ville 18K, Shell T-5 15w-40
'92 Chevrolet C1500 "Sport" 152K, Shell T5 15w-40
Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: Rumble] #5098343 05/07/19 12:20 PM
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bullwinkle Online Confused
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Originally Posted by Rumble
I used a crude form of start/stop during the 1974 fuel crisis with my 1957 Chevrolet "150" 2-dr sedan. I would cut the engine off and shift the 3-speed manual (column) trans to neutral and coast up to stops signs, then put in gear just before coming to a complete stop and restart. It was hard times, and did what we had to in order to survive, lol. drive
Heck, I still do that with the manual transmission F-450-coast downhill, in 5th (which supplies PS fluid pressure to the steering & hydroboost), and cut the key back on as I coast up to a red light. It has the old pushrod column lock, so there’s no danger of turning the key too far back to lock. That’s what $3/gallon diesel in a truck that’s lucky to get 10 MPG gets you!


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: benjy] #5098395 05/07/19 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by benjy
never buy a vehicle with stop-start unless it can be easily disabled, never buy a vehicle with a CVT period. as time goes buy like prescription drugs bad side effects will happen as you are the beta tester!


And get off my lawn you whippersnappers!

Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: LoneRanger] #5098464 05/07/19 02:18 PM
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I'll never drive a car with auto stop start, if I buy a car with it, I WILL find the way to disable it permanently.

Nearly 100% of the time this feature can be permanently disabled via CANBUS and a scan tool.

Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5098830 05/07/19 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by pandus13
Michigan fast: Posted speed is 70-75mph. The slow lane is at least +10 (If you are an owner operator semi), usually driving 20 over. Unless there is construction slowdown...


That's odd. My experience in Indiana with Michigan-plated vehicles, they all drive in the left lane only, with the cruise set on 70 regardless of the posted limit and regardless of how fast traffic is moving, like they own that B. I've seen at least 10-car trains behind Michigan plates with people passing on the right because they won't move over out of the left lane!
spank


While I can' comment on Michigander's driving behavior on the Hoosier State, here they tend to drive like Third World refugees amazed to find what to them is smooth pavement.
When you journey between Michigan and Ohio, you don't need any signs to tell you which state you're in.
The difference in the quality of the roads has long been the only sign one needs.


18 Accord Hybrid 20K HGMO 0W-20
17 Forester 30K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 115K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 119K M1HM 5W-30
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: AC1DD] #5098838 05/07/19 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AC1DD
I'll never drive a car with auto stop start, if I buy a car with it, I WILL find the way to disable it permanently.

Nearly 100% of the time this feature can be permanently disabled via CANBUS and a scan tool.




I heard that exact same thing about automatic chokes way back when.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: PimTac] #5098890 05/07/19 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by AC1DD
I'll never drive a car with auto stop start, if I buy a car with it, I WILL find the way to disable it permanently.

Nearly 100% of the time this feature can be permanently disabled via CANBUS and a scan tool.




I heard that exact same thing about automatic chokes way back when.


Yes, things are getting silly in this thread. People saying they'll use something they've never tried. Start/stop is not that big of a deal.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 392,000 miles
2015 Camry 90,000 miles
Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: Leo99] #5098918 05/07/19 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Leo99

Yes, things are getting silly in this thread. People saying they'll use something they've never tried. Start/stop is not that big of a deal.


My Insight shuts off while it’s still moving and restarts as soon as you need to accelerate never an issue over hundreds of thousands of miles

Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: Leo99] #5098924 05/07/19 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Leo99
[quote=PimTac][quote=AC1DD]

Yes, things are getting silly in this thread. People saying they'll use something they've never tried. Start/stop is not that big of a deal.


I've driven cars with it enabled, (eg Ford Escape) and it was horrible.

Of course like you say it isn't that big of a deal because with the proper scan tool you can permanently disable it.

Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: LoneRanger] #5099183 05/08/19 08:07 AM
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My X1 and M235i have it. It’s pretty seamless in the 2er but I still tend to leave it off. Not being able to disable the feature would be a deal breaker.


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Engine Stop/Start Seems a Ludicrous Concept to Me Now that I've Driven It [Re: MCompact] #5099243 05/08/19 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MCompact
Not being able to disable the feature would be a deal breaker.


This.

I'm not totally opposed to start/stop, but the way it is implemented makes the difference. BMW allows you to turn it off, and the F30s I've driven were pretty smooth. The GMC mentioned above that doesn't allow you to shut it off, and re-starts the engine when it is put into park would be a 100% deal breaker for me.


2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrailHawk 5.7L (144k) - PPHM 5w30, Wix 57899
2009 BMW 328i N51 (50k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
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