House question

[supton]

Looked at a house this weekend, liked it, ran into a question.

I think the land might have some water issues. It has been raining so finding a marshy spot away from the house was not surprising (like 100' away)--someone put in a drainage pipe so I'm thinking it's a known issue. Closer to the house though someone planted a nice weeping willow. I forget but probably 25 feet away from house. Wife took one look and said that meant lots of water present. So I'm thinking it may have been planted to so as to dry up the land next to the house. I do see a nice root headed towards house. Which would be an automatic fail I'd think except that there is no basement. Crawlspace of some sort that I was unable to access, with some portion of the house on posts.

The house is 80+ years old, septic is on the opposite side of the willow (and pumps up to a much further away leech field). Unsure where the geothermal field is but I'm guessing a willow isn't going impact that (?). There is a vapor barrier under the house (recently installed) but of course I couldn't inspect that, nor where the pipes go into the ground.

What should I be thinking here? No basement, possible water nearby, geothermal, ...? I'm used to basements where you can quickly see settle, shift, crack, etc. I'm not the first person to look at this and while I didn't see the inspection report the listing agent brought up other issues--had an inspector noticed what I did, the listing agent would have told me. Should have anyhow.

At the moment this is not someplace we are seriously considering, but it is something we would if our house sold.

 

[Mr Nice]

I'd avoid that house.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I'd avoid that house.


That's what I'm thinking. I just need to make sure I have good reasons why to justify that that decision.

 

[SeaJay]

The possibility exists that it is ground water intrusion. I had that problem (with one of the largest weeping willows in town)and a basement with my furnace. A real pain. May not be so bad without a basement.

Best think is to check with all of the neighbors, some might shade the truth to help out the sellers, but all will not. The septic might be an issue with that water.

 

[JTK]

Hard to say. Like you've seen, there's going to be issues with any 80yr/old property. Willow trees are a nuisance and mess when too close to the home or infrastructure.

I hate relying on a professional inspection, but they'll always identify issues. What I dislike about home inspection are, you can have 10 of them done and get 10 different recommendations. Doesn't matter if the home is 8 or 80yrs old. All homes will have issues.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Hard to say. Like you've seen, there's going to be issues with any 80yr/old property. Willow trees are a nuisance and mess when too close to the home or infrastructure.

I hate relying on a professional inspection, but they'll always identify issues. What I dislike about home inspection are, you can have 10 of them done and get 10 different recommendations. Doesn't matter if the home is 8 or 80yrs old. All homes will have issues.


That's what I figure, all homes have issues. Sometimes those issues haven't been found, but they're lurking.

We looked at one home with two cracks in the foundation. One was vertical and other was mostly vertical that angled down at the end. Didn't worry me; most of the crack was at the top of the wall (with much of above grade no less) but it very much scared away the last buyer. [We didn't like the house for other reasons.]

Then there's the unknown. Septic inspection guy couldn't run the camera up from the tank into the house. Obstruction of some sort. Owners wanted to know how the toilet still worked.

Either it just failed or the camera guy has problems. [Owner has an estimate to replace the pipe: for $1k I'm not going to worry about that sort of issue.] My house, the inspector said I wouldn't have problems, nothing of note found for potential issues. New roof 4 years later, then few years after that we noticed the wall that was moving. Great inspection.

My fear of building is the unknown. What if you hit ledge, or it takes four tries to find water. What if the basement decides to leak because there is a stream underground. Won't know until you do, and then do you wish you didn't? Can't assume building is the cheapest & safest route.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Is the house on a slab or crawlspace?

Is the property located in a flood zone and how old is the flood zone map?


For foundation issues you want an engineers report. Anyone can be a house inspector.

 

[SHOZ]

If it is a crawl space if the water table gets to high the water just comes up through the dirt and fills the crawl space. If any duct work is there then water can get in that. Plus it raises the humidity in the house, encourages mold and termites.

I'm in flat Illinois and any crawl space or basement is going to get water sooner or later.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: supton

Then there's the unknown. Septic inspection guy couldn't run the camera up from the tank into the house. Obstruction of some sort. Owners wanted to know how the toilet still worked.

Either it just failed or the camera guy has problems.


There's a check valve (flapper of sorts) where the sewer line discharges into the tank. That would be obstruction #1. I've also seen a "U" trap in the line between the tank and house on some old systems that's a potential #2 obstruction.

 

[SHOZ]

Willows love drain tiles and septic fields. The roots can go for 100s of feet.

 

[supton]

I think it's a mix under there. Backwall has some sort of poured wall, while I think the front half is pilings of some sort. Garage is slab and the addition between is unknown. Crawlspace was blocked off.

Don't recall seeing anything about floodzone but will look into. Is on a hill overlooking a lake so if it's in a floodzone then I'm in big trouble as I live lower than it and across the lake.

 

[SHOZ]

If the house is on a downward slope on a hill there will be water moving through the soil to the lower elevation.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: supton

Then there's the unknown. Septic inspection guy couldn't run the camera up from the tank into the house. Obstruction of some sort. Owners wanted to know how the toilet still worked.

Either it just failed or the camera guy has problems.


There's a check valve (flapper of sorts) where the sewer line discharges into the tank. That would be obstruction #1. I've also seen a "U" trap in the line between the tank and house on some old systems that's a potential #2 obstruction.


That's interesting, not sure why they'd have one but it'd explain the one-way operation. I'm not convinced as the inspection blamed the pipe being under the driveway and being crushed--you'd think no flapper would be there, and the guy would know if the camera had made it that far to be under the house. [As you can guess, line runs under the driveway, which is far from ideal. Personally I'm not concerned as the estimate to fix was $1k, and the seller might be willing to fix as part of the sale.]

Oh: I bet there is a valve, a just in case valve. Leech is a couple feet higher than the floor in the house. If the worst happens and water first floods into the leech, then fills the tank, this one way would prevent water from pouring out inside the house. Maybe... or maybe a trap like you think.

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If it is a crawl space if the water table gets to high the water just comes up through the dirt and fills the crawl space. If any duct work is there then water can get in that. Plus it raises the humidity in the house, encourages mold and termites.


Yeah that kinda worried me. I don't know if the dirt under the house is the same level as grade, or down. And what is going on under there, for moisture that has rose up over the years. Supposedly the vapor barrier was put in to make the house efficient enough for geothermal, but was it for other reasons?

 

[Eddie]

From experience, the isn't anything than can wreck your piece of mind like the constant fear or concern about water problems in or around you home. I'd pass on this and never look back. Ed

 

[JLTD]

Had a house with a swampy back yard, a willow cleared it right up...they do soak up the water and that might be all it is.

But-

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Willows love drain tiles and septic fields. The roots can go for 100s of feet.


This is also true, you may want to check with an arborist.

 

[wog]

A backwater valve is used to keep water from coming back into house, which if that is installed there is an issue with ground water ,. If leeching field is saturated that could also be a reason,then you need new field.crawl space makes me nervous,water table is high ,couldn’t t dig hole cause it won’t perk.

 

[eljefino]

Why is the crawl space blocked off? That's insane. Pull a few boards and get in there.

I don't like this house one bit, seems shady.

On the flipside, a "flow through basement" is a New England tradition, so long as it's just a couple days a year. Beyond that, you'll get mold on your fiberglass insulation under the floor and need all sorts of mitigation/ dehumidification.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Why is the crawl space blocked off? That's insane. Pull a few boards and get in there.


I'd presume to keep animals out, and to limit airflow. Dunno. Wasn't going to crawl all around the house looking for better entry points.

Anyhow, it would be a stretch to get this house so it's not that hard to rule it out. Quick search shows 47 available properties in the towns I'm searching with 3 bedrooms. 30 if I lower price limit to a reasonable price limit. Less if I rule out those that won't work for us.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: JTK

If it is a crawl space if the water table gets to high the water just comes up through the dirt and fills the crawl space. If any duct work is there then water can get in that. Plus it raises the humidity in the house, encourages mold and termites.


Yeah that kinda worried me. I don't know if the dirt under the house is the same level as grade, or down. And what is going on under there, for moisture that has rose up over the years. Supposedly the vapor barrier was put in to make the house efficient enough for geothermal, but was it for other reasons?


This spring we had a major flood. Worst it's been since I've lived here moving in 1980. My crawl space has an open drain that leads to a pond and is connected to the tile around my foundation. Crawl space is 32" deep and the house is one block above grade.

I always thought that with the river rising and flooding the pond that the water rose in my crawl space from the open drain. I bought a self sealing floater type drain plug. But the water just comes up through the dirt.

It has plastic over the top of the dirt. But since the flood in February we have been in a drought and the dirt is still wet under the plastic. New construction here would require my house to be a couple of cement blocks higher and flood gate type crawlspace vents that would allow the water to flow through the crawl space as the water rises.

It's near impossible to dry the thing out with outside humidity 70%-100% most of the time.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Thrasher in Omaha/Council Bluffs and like companies can't answer the phones fast enough after that area had up to 12" rain over Sunday/Monday. When you live in a city that is protected from the Missouri by levees and the river is running high, you have to have pumps to pump the water over the levee. And twice the pumping capacity wouldn't have kept CB from flooding.