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Pre-filling filters effect on first startup #4810645
07/10/18 07:32 PM
07/10/18 07:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 427
California
VeryNoisyPoet Offline OP
VeryNoisyPoet  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 427
California
Spin-on filter in my car installs straight up, so I can fill it all the way before I screw it on. Only the galleries need to purge before oil pressure can build. Since I just installed an electronic oil pressure gauge that updates a few times per second, I decided to record what the pressure does on the first startup at my most recent oil change. I used 10w-30 Valvoline Full Synthetic with Maxlife Technology and a Mann W917 filter.



It will be a while before my next oil change, but when that happens I'll do an experiment. I'll use the same oil and filter, but this time I will only put a splash of oil in the filter instead of filling it to the brim with about 1/2 quart. Be interesting to see how much longer it takes to build pressure.


1998 V70 GLT / 202k miles [10w-30 Valvoline Syn w/ Maxlife Tech + Mann W917 filter]

"Use yah blinkah!"

"Be nice. The alternative involves an air horn and 7000 lumens of high beam."
Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810682
07/10/18 08:02 PM
07/10/18 08:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20,388
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20,388
PNW
If the filter was bone dry, it will probably take 4~5 seconds instead of 2 second to reach full pressure.

Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810706
07/10/18 08:27 PM
07/10/18 08:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,954
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,954
New York
While I don't think adding oil to the new filter is absolutely necessary...I can't see any downside....I've done it for years...and will continue to...


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810711
07/10/18 08:41 PM
07/10/18 08:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,746
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,746
US
Awesome! This topic has been horse many many times over the years; finally some science to definitively answer the question!

When you post up the next video please make sure to link to this one.

Question for you: any plans to test a 0w30 vs the 10w30? It would I suppose need to be at the same outside temperature but that has been debated here also [insert positive displacement pump discussion here]


I use the overseas owner's manual to choose my oil.

Using AMSOIL‚ĄĘ

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 143k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 51k, OE 5w30/Wix

Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810765
07/10/18 09:40 PM
07/10/18 09:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,017
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,017
Waco, TX
I have timed it on my truck.

FL-820S size (Same size as PH-2, XG2, or PH-16) takes exactly two seconds longer when dry.

I only did it once, for the value of the experiment. It was a warm engine that hadn't been shut off for long.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: JLTD] #4810844
07/10/18 11:19 PM
07/10/18 11:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20,388
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20,388
PNW
Originally Posted By: JLTD
[insert positive displacement pump discussion here]


Oil viscosity shouldn't really matter with a healthy PD pump.

Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810853
07/10/18 11:30 PM
07/10/18 11:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,178
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
double vanos Offline
double vanos  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,178
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
People with horizontal mounting filters are SOL I suppose. Canít fill the filter on my 3.5 Ecoboost but I reckon dry filter starts arenít hurting it much.


Sabine Schmitz is the Queen of the 'Ring; Svetlana Kapanina is the Queen of the SKIES...
Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810872
07/11/18 12:55 AM
07/11/18 12:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,932
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,932
Balearic Islands , Spain
No real difference, the oil filter takes in my cars maybe 2 seconds to fill up when you start it after a change, and i can't do it in my cars anyway, in one it's horizontal and on the other in fact at a 45 downward angle!
In fact, Ferrari Colombo V12s have two oil filters and they are both directly pointed downward! and they don't blow up after an oil change do they.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.
1988 Ford Escort XR3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.


Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810903
07/11/18 02:22 AM
07/11/18 02:22 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,169
Saskatchewan, Canada
As far as I know, the only way to insure high oil pressure at startup is with an oil accumulator (Moroso, etc). It pressurizes the oil system *before* startup.

I don't know if it's necessary; there should be enough residual oil at bearing points for almost no wear for startup and low RPM operation for brief periods. Engine starts do wear more than pressurized operation, but it's low enough that motors last ... well, as long as they last. Maybe an option if you are looking to keep the vehicle forever and are looking to extend engine life beyond, say, 200,000 mi.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4810914
07/11/18 03:23 AM
07/11/18 03:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20,388
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20,388
PNW
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
... there should be enough residual oil at bearing points for almost no wear for startup and low RPM operation for brief periods.


Yep ... if these engines in the video link below can run for 10+ minutes with no oil before blowing up, I'd think the residual oil will protect everything for 5 sec or less of running before oil pressure is established.

https://youtu.be/x3CfLBkew2c?t=7m18s

Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810940
07/11/18 05:56 AM
07/11/18 05:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,048
The Old North State
Sayjac Offline
Sayjac  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,048
The Old North State
I prefill 'where practicable'. That said, I realize it's more of a 'feel good' practice then something that will have a significant effect on engine wear. Look at how many shops, dealers, indies, and quick lubes that never prefill.

And there's been some posts here in the past about how new unused oil actually has more harmful particles in it then used oil and one should change the filter some time after the OC. Not something I'll ever do no matter the science behind it, but much like prefilling, strokes for folks.

And yes subject has been beaten to death, but so have many topics here.

Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: Sayjac] #4810949
07/11/18 06:40 AM
07/11/18 06:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,843
Texas
Dallas69 Offline
Dallas69  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,843
Texas
Way too many anal and ocd folks on here these days.
You guys just look for stuff to worry about.


2009 Galant-ultra oil and filter
1987 Ford F-150 302
Smittys 5-30
Motorcraft filter
Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: VeryNoisyPoet] #4810965
07/11/18 07:13 AM
07/11/18 07:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,883
The Motor City
Kestas Online content
Global Moderator
Kestas  Online Content
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,883
The Motor City
It's a sport around here.

Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: Kestas] #4810973
07/11/18 07:21 AM
07/11/18 07:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,231
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,231
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Sis had a 1988 Jeep Cherokee w/ 4.0 I6. 'Twas said the cam and crank pos. sensors BOTH needed to "go through their zeros" for the engine to fire up.
That required 2.5 - 3 seconds whether ice cold or warmed up.

I always thought the engine benefitted from that low rpm cranking as the oil pumped up.

This is separate from the "pre-filling question".

Re: Pre-filling filters effect on first startup [Re: Sayjac] #4811023
07/11/18 08:32 AM
07/11/18 08:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,161
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,161
Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
I prefill 'where practicable'. That said, I realize it's more of a 'feel good' practice then something that will have a significant effect on engine wear. Look at how many shops, dealers, indies, and quick lubes that never prefill.

And there's been some posts here in the past about how new unused oil actually has more harmful particles in it then used oil and one should change the filter some time after the OC. Not something I'll ever do no matter the science behind it, but much like prefilling, strokes for folks.

And yes subject has been beaten to death, but so have many topics here.

Basically what I was going to say.

I disagree with the naysayers about the new oil can cause harm. Look at VOA's, insolubles are minimal, lower than or equal to UOA's. Plus the new oil is poured into the top half of the engine, where it would do "damage" to the top end.

And if you have a horizontal mount filter, you can still add some oil too it. I can add about 1/3 a qt to the FL820s size filters on my F150. I just add it and it gets absorbed by the media. Spin it on quickly enough and nothing comes out.

But as said, it just makes me feel good, and if I forget to do it, I don't worry about it.


2018 Hyundai Santa Fe: Delo XLE 10w-30, OEM filter, 3k
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20, CQ Blue, 5k
2002 Ford F150: Magnatec 5w-20, Bosch D+, 1yr
1994 Honda VT1100: Peak 15w-40, PSL, 1yr
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