Pre-filling filters effect on first startup

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Central Wisconsin
Quote:
And if you have a horizontal mount filter, you can still add some oil too it. I can add about 1/3 a qt to the FL820s size filters on my F150. I just add it and it gets absorbed by the media. Spin it on quickly enough and nothing comes out.
As do I. Plus I only use filters with the silicon ADBV. Maybe not a 1/3 of a qt. but close. My 2¢
 
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California
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
As far as I know, the only way to insure high oil pressure at startup is with an oil accumulator (Moroso, etc). It pressurizes the oil system *before* startup. I don't know if it's necessary; there should be enough residual oil at bearing points for almost no wear for startup and low RPM operation for brief periods. Engine starts do wear more than pressurized operation, but it's low enough that motors last ... well, as long as they last. Maybe an option if you are looking to keep the vehicle forever and are looking to extend engine life beyond, say, 200,000 mi.
The way BITOG members are, most of our vehicles will rust out or eventually devalue to near nothing before the engines wear out. E.g. 513k miles on a Civic. Unless the previous owners didn't care for it, or the engine design has a major fault.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone that knows about cars and does their own work wouldn't pre-fill the filter if the position of the filter on the engine allows doing so.
Amen to that. But I always consider the opposite point of view, just to be fair and level-headed... so... those who don't pre-fill their new oil filters probably don't see the point in spending the extra 30 seconds when it provides no real-world benefit. Also the full oil filter requires extra care handling it up to the mounting base, and spinning it to install, all without spilling. Not too hard for me but of course I have mad skilz :P I pre-fill my new oil filters because it's quick and easy, because both my vehicles have vertical-mounted oil filters, and because I really like to see the oil light go out almost instantly after doing an oil change.
 
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Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: JLTD
[insert positive displacement pump discussion here]
Oil viscosity shouldn't really matter with a healthy PD pump.
"shouldn't" ...leaves a "?"... I am requesting this as real world data....
It's not rocket science to understand how a PD oil pump works. Only time viscosity would matter is if the pump was really worn out and had lots of 'tip slip' with super thin oil. And even then, the difference in obtaining oil pressure on dry startup would be negligible. Besides, when starting an engine after an oil change with a bone dry filter is when the oil is not hot, so even 'thin' oil is relatively thick when cold.
 
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: JLTD
[insert positive displacement pump discussion here]
Oil viscosity shouldn't really matter with a healthy PD pump.
"shouldn't" ...leaves a "?"... I am requesting this as real world data....
It's not rocket science to understand how a PD oil pump works. Only time viscosity would matter is if the pump was really worn out and had lots of 'tip slip' with super thin oil. And even then, the difference in obtaining oil pressure on dry startup would be negligible. Besides, when starting an engine after an oil change with a bone dry filter is when the oil is not hot, so even 'thin' oil is relatively thick when cold.
You don't need to lecture, I understand where you are coming from. My point is that having real world data, rather than a "this is how it works" educational session, would be interesting and educational at the same time, while quashing any need for future debate on the subject. All we'd have to do is link to this thread.
 
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Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone that knows about cars and does their own work wouldn't pre-fill the filter if the position of the filter on the engine allows doing so.
Maybe because your engine will last just as long if you don't? wink2 cheers
Maybe, the reality is this. My Rubicon has a cartridge filter on top of the engine that can't be pre-filled. My 88 E-150 has lasted over 30 years now and is still going strong, with me pre-filling the filter. Assuming the Rubicon isn't stolen, or destroyed, and lasts as long, odds are I won't be alive to comment about it. Cheers2
 
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Originally Posted By: JLTD
My point is that having real world data, rather than a "this is how it works" educational session, would be interesting and educational at the same time, while quashing any need for future debate on the subject. All we'd have to do is link to this thread.
I suppose, but I can pretty much conclude what the test would show - that the difference in time to establish oil pressure would be insignificant. And I'm not talking about cold starts at the north pole, but in ambient temps well above freezing.
 
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: JLTD
My point is that having real world data, rather than a "this is how it works" educational session, would be interesting and educational at the same time, while quashing any need for future debate on the subject. All we'd have to do is link to this thread.
I suppose, but I can pretty much conclude what the test would show - that the difference in time to establish oil pressure would be insignificant. And I'm not talking about cold starts at the north pole, but in ambient temps well above freezing.
"Pretty much conclude" is not certainty. Just sayin'. Plenty of things in this world that don't work the way they are supposed to, or how they are perceived as working. Are you simply debating me on this point? I have agreed in principle how a PD pump works. Or are you against OP posting the results?
 
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I agree pre-oiling is a good idea however I have never pre-oiled a filter. I had a 2005 Ford F-150 that didn't use a drop of oil at 215,000 miles and still ran great when I sold it. I spill enough oil as it is without the pre-oiling.
 
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Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: JLTD
My point is that having real world data, rather than a "this is how it works" educational session, would be interesting and educational at the same time, while quashing any need for future debate on the subject. All we'd have to do is link to this thread.
I suppose, but I can pretty much conclude what the test would show - that the difference in time to establish oil pressure would be insignificant. And I'm not talking about cold starts at the north pole, but in ambient temps well above freezing.
"Pretty much conclude" is not certainty. Just sayin'. Plenty of things in this world that don't work the way they are supposed to, or how they are perceived as working. Are you simply debating me on this point? I have agreed in principle how a PD pump works. Or are you against OP posting the results?
Don't really need a test to see if oil viscosity might make a difference in the time it takes to get oil pressure. It won't - it's pretty easy to figure out the outcome based on how a PD oil pumps works. But if someone wants to go for the test to prove it, then by all means have at it. grin2
 
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Tennessee
Filters that point base down will drain out the center area over time, like the v6 Camry we used to have. Depending on the main baring clearances I suppose as I would drain oil overnight to have a dripless oil filter removal. Every overnight start was a little bit of a dry start on that car, but light went out fast. What about the oil pump relief valve, if oil is too thick the back pressure could be enough to open it, reducing flow.
 
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Personally, I would never buy a vehicle with a filter thread that's on the bottom of the engine oil filter housing. Other things that stop me cold at dealers, is (one exmaple of many)....when I raise the hood and can't stick my hands in the engine, to occasionally do maintenance. My daughter's 2008 Pacifica is the worst I've ever encountered.
 
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California
Thread starter
Changed oil a few days ago and did not add any oil to filter before installing besides a few drops on the gasket. Again filled with Valvoline 10w-30 Synthetic with Maxlife Technology and used a Mann W917 filter. Similar ambient temperatures. Similar vehicle angle.
Compare to the first video where I did prefill the filter before installing:
 
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Houston, Texas
Thanks for the videos. Using a kitchen timer, I get about a 2 second difference. Using measured pressure is certainly better than listening for rattle. When listening for rattle, if the out going oil is in rough shape (I.E. low viscosity) I notice more startup rattle when not filling the oil filter. If the out going oil is in good shape, I don't notice any startup rattle when not filling the oil filter. VeryNoisyPoet - good post.
 
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429
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Thread starter
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Our ears are a better / truer method to troubleshoot cold startup noise, over-that of a gauge reading on your dashboard.
This test was only looking at time to build pressure. Maybe next time I can also try to record any startup noise and edit the videos together My engine doesn't noticeably rattle or clatter on a dry start. Maybe a slightly noisier valvetrain because hydraulic lifters without pressure but otherwise well behaved. Then again I haven't had my head down under the car immediately after first startup and I might notice more bottom end noise there.
 
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672
Location
Palmyra, PA
the Patriot has a vertical mounted filter on the bottom of the engine; the Buddy scooter has a horizontally mounted filter on the bottom of the engine casing; I fill both of these filters, allow the oil to soak thru the filter mefia and allow excess to drain for a few seconds before mounting (to prevent spillage)...while not completely filled there is volume inside to reduce the time of the first dry start after oil changes; the V Star motorcycle uses a horizontally mounted internal cartridge filter and presoaking it makes a mess so it goes in dry...
 
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10,000
Location
Waco, TX
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
If the filter was bone dry, it will probably take 4~5 seconds instead of 2 second to reach full pressure.
That's the exact same numbers/times I get with my 4.6 liter F150
 
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