Oil Testing Data

[Wolfie]

A gentleman sent samples of common motor oils for testing of anti-wear additives, detergents and such. They have varying amounts of a variety of additives i.e. more or less moly, calcium, boron, titanium, etc. Can one generalize which oil is best based on summing up the total anti wear additives? What's a good way to find the best oil using this data. What would be the best mass market oil?
MACTgarage.com oil test data

 

[Imp4]

You and/or your tests are at least assuming the following

*A VOA from Blackstone Labs is adequate for determining something of actual value with respect to wear, longevity, etc in an ICE application.
*That testing from said lab is repeatable across the number of tests performed within some measure of accuracy.
*That an A, B, C, etc grading system is appropriate for the given analysis.
*That being the *best* on this list is what determines acceptability for an automotive ICE application.

These are VERY big assumptions.

Questions for you:
*What was your repeatability requirement for the analysis techniques used in these VOAs?
*What other labs and/or analysis techniques did you investigate in addition to Blackstone?
*How did you select Blackstone's test procedure as the most appropriate for your evaluation criteria?

Remember, give a gentleman enough data, and he'll hang himself at dawn.

 

[DuckRyder]

This should be interesting, at least in the way that one cannot normally look away from an accident on the interstate.

I bet there are going to be a lot of opinions

. Someone will figure out a way to say delta p and someone will figure out how to say positive displacement oil pump, somebody will write half a page single spaced about waste and ROI, and probably macro data and micro data and someone is going to say none of this stuff really matters in most cases. (That will be me BTW). Someone will say super tech is all you need and many will lament that their particular favorite wasn’t included (in-spite of the fact that there is an entire forum here full of VOAs not to mention PQIA). I imagine someone will say the air filter is the best oil filter. Pantyhose may even make an appearance.

It probably bears mentioning that MACT (AKA Bill) took a shot at answering some of the questions at: ( I only got through about the first 2 minutes so you are on your own there)

https://www.mactgarage.com/oil-analysis

To your basic question.

Quote:
Can one generalize which oil is best based on summing up the total anti wear additives?


In my opinion NO - beyond whether they are in the specified range for the API, even that can be sketchy.

Also in my opinion if the oil meets the engines requirements and is changed at reasonable intervals it really doesn’t matter what oil it is.

The oil testing that Blackstone and similar services does is intended for condition monitoring there is more to an oil than what is on a Blackstone report. On top of that we have seen pretty large variations between the same oil in VOAs (M1AP samples for instance).

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
This should be interesting, at least in the way that one cannot normally look away from an accident on the interstate.

Indeed.
Unfortunately, this is yet another instance of drive-by data analysis.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder

To your basic question.
Quote:
Can one generalize which oil is best based on summing up the total anti wear additives?


In my opinion NO - beyond whether they are in the specified range for the API, even that can be sketchy.


We all would like to THINK we can (Ohhh.... this one has 400pppm Moly!!)
but in reality, the answer is likely no.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Wolfie
...Can one generalize which oil is best based on summing up the total anti wear additives? What's a good way to find the best oil using this data. What would be the best mass market oil?
MACTgarage.com oil test data


Very cool chart.

1. Can one generalize which oil is best? No

2. What is the best oil using this data? There is no way to know which oil is best using the "data"

Summary,
The data, interesting but all its showing you are some properties of the oil and showing you a small handful of elements that the oils contain.

Also what does one mean by best? Best long lasting oil? Best low temperature oil? Best oil at preventing wear?
No oil does everything.

For me much of this stuff means nothing to me anymore. All oils of the same API are equal at preventing wear until its proven otherwise, even then, when someone tries to show that using a test, the test gets trashed.

So, bottom line, buy what you feel good about but if you change your oil on time or before the change is due, there is no way, at any price, to know which oil will be the best at preventing wear.
Modern oils are all pretty darn good and the marketing machines of big oil companies will be the deciding factor of what oil you choose.

No matter what, change on time, any oil of the correct API and your engine will most likely last longer then the vehicle itself and if it doesnt it was a manufacturing defect not an oil defect that leads to failure.

Motor Oil is a commodity now, much of what you buy base oil and the additive packages are produced by a handful of companies, much like the gasoline you purchase or any other thing in life, like your TV at home.
True they are produced to specs dictated by the companies themselves but no way to know what is best.

Remember, the absolute positively, most perfect anti-ware motor oil is the ACTUAL OIL ITSELF, not the additives. The "anti wear additives" added to the motor oil is to help prevent engine wear in engines with less then robust lubrication systems or times the oil has not reached the lubrication area during start up.

You maybe interested to note, AIRCRAFT PISTON motor oils to not contain the additives that automotive motor oils contain, from the same companies no less, why? Because the additives are actually metals and soft metals and these metals in the oil end up as deposits on the pistons, increase wear and engine failure.

Here is an older UOA on Aeroshell 15/50 oil

Anyway, again, just saying its about the oil, not what is in it and the only way we know it is any good is that it passes API.

 

[CT8]

Oil is pretty much oil with the proper ratings for the average consumer. Any of the conventional oil will give close to the same results and any of the"syn" oil will give close to the same results

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Wolfie
A gentleman sent samples of common motor oils for testing of anti-wear additives, detergents and such. They have varying amounts of a variety of additives i.e. more or less moly, calcium, boron, titanium, etc. Can one generalize which oil is best based on summing up the total anti wear additives? What's a good way to find the best oil using this data. What would be the best mass market oil?
MACTgarage.com oil test data
What does Bill actually know about oil to validate his ranking?

 

[benjy]

you can see that the more costly oils get more of the costly adds, aka moly etc. of course from reading its assured that additives vary by cost + effectiveness for sure, read more learn more!! i read things here that are rare elsewhere but when i see similar info in different places its more likely true!! hopefully!!