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#4664651 - 02/13/18 09:45 AM OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter?
ffxfina3 Offline


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 271
Loc: N/A
I've got a 2000 Honda Insight that I've done 7500 mile OCIs on for the life of the car. That car now has over 203,000 miles on it. Also, I've used oversized Baldwin and Hastings filters on this car. I change the filter every oil change. My UOAs with Blackstone are always very good.

I now own a 2015 Toyota Prius Plug-in. Toyota recommends a 10,000 mile OCI. Toyota does not require synthetic filters for this car. But I'm curious/concerned about going 10,000 miles on a traditional filter. (Granted, probably about 10-20% of those 10,000 miles, the car is driven in EV mode, so we aren't really putting 10,000 miles on the filter.)

Still, at what length of OCI is it generally understood that one should switch to a synthetic filter? I'm tempted to go 10,000 miles with a regular filter, check out the filter, and do a UOA and see what happens.
_________________________
2000 Honda Insight - M1 EP 0W-20
2015 Toyota Prius Plug-In - M1 EP 0W-20
2004 Gravely 34Z - Amsoil ASE 10W-30/SAE 30

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#4664669 - 02/13/18 10:01 AM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: ffxfina3]
rooflessVW Online   content


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 4018
Loc: North Carolina
The OE cartridge for my car is cellulose media and the factory recommend filter interval is 30k miles.

Most German cars are on a 10k/1yr OCI with cellulose media. Some of the same cars have a variable interval in Europe, and go up to 30,000 kilometers between changes.
_________________________
"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."

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#4664671 - 02/13/18 10:05 AM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: ffxfina3]
WyrTwister Offline


Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 1487
Loc: Texas
If you are concerned , just use the OEM filter .
_________________________
Wyr
God bless

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#4664690 - 02/13/18 10:19 AM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: ffxfina3]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 7389
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I have repeatedly run 10k and even some 15k mile OFCIs on "normal" cellulose filters (Wix and TGs).
Taking the filter apart only proved to be an exercise in futility; boring and nothing wrong.
_________________________
The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money

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#4664772 - 02/13/18 12:20 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: ffxfina3]
Snagglefoot Online   content


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1679
Loc: Alberta
Personally I think the synthetic filter thing is more marketing than anything, but I do happen to use one; Fram Ultra.

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#4664776 - 02/13/18 12:25 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: ffxfina3]
Snagglefoot Online   content


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1679
Loc: Alberta
Originally Posted By: ffxfina3
I've got a 2000 Honda Insight that I've done 7500 mile OCIs on for the life of the car. That car now has over 203,000 miles on it. Also, I've used oversized Baldwin and Hastings filters on this car. I change the filter every oil change. My UOAs with Blackstone are always very good.

I now own a 2015 Toyota Prius Plug-in. Toyota recommends a 10,000 mile OCI. Toyota does not require synthetic filters for this car. But I'm curious/concerned about going 10,000 miles on a traditional filter. (Granted, probably about 10-20% of those 10,000 miles, the car is driven in EV mode, so we aren't really putting 10,000 miles on the filter.)

Still, at what length of OCI is it generally understood that one should switch to a synthetic filter? I'm tempted to go 10,000 miles with a regular filter, check out the filter, and do a UOA and see what happens.


Thatís an excellent data point. What weight and grade were you running? I assume synthetic?

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#4664828 - 02/13/18 01:56 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: Snagglefoot]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10920
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Personally I think the synthetic filter thing is more marketing than anything, but I do happen to use one; Fram Ultra.
Marketing does work wonders.
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."Geoff Metcalf"

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#4664843 - 02/13/18 02:10 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: Snagglefoot]
ffxfina3 Offline


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 271
Loc: N/A
Thanks for everybody's replies. Nice to hear that traditional media is probably OK. I think I'll stick to my mentioned plan and examine the media and do a UOA and go from there.

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot

Thatís an excellent data point. What weight and grade were you running? I assume synthetic?


Assume you are referring to the Insight. I've used three different oils over the life of the car -- all 0w-20. Started out with Pennzoil Platinum. I used PP until 134,970 mile mark. Then, I switched to the expensive Eneos Sustina. I used that until 179,990 mile mark. I've used M1 EP for the last 23,000 miles.

-Bryan
_________________________
2000 Honda Insight - M1 EP 0W-20
2015 Toyota Prius Plug-In - M1 EP 0W-20
2004 Gravely 34Z - Amsoil ASE 10W-30/SAE 30

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#4664885 - 02/13/18 02:53 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: CT8]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17762
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Personally I think the synthetic filter thing is more marketing than anything, but I do happen to use one; Fram Ultra.
Marketing does work wonders.

The reason filter makers recommend sythetic media filters with syntheic oil is because most people run longer OCIs with synthetic oil, which means the filter should have a higher holding capacity to match that longer OCI.

That's based on holding capacity measurements done in the lab testing, not based on how it looks after use.

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#4665015 - 02/13/18 05:42 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: ffxfina3]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2845
Loc: california
The TRD is another choice from Toyota and gives full synthetic media. Hybrids and plug in hybrids are not necessarily easy on oil. They often run short times and turn off. On my Volt my gas used since last Sept is 1.5 gals over 1300 miles. I don't drive a lot. All the charging was free. I am trying to run the engine more this year. Today I drove it 10 miles on the engine, which gets it warmed up properly. It won't go on again for another two weeks or more. On the 07 Prius bought new it always had 5K changes, and I wouldn't go 10K no matter what anyone says.

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#4665030 - 02/13/18 05:54 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: ffxfina3]
Triple_Se7en Offline


Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 8745
Loc: 1/2 hr. north of Detroit
Use the OEM filter and continue with 7.5k OCIs.

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#4665076 - 02/13/18 06:29 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: dnewton3]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I have repeatedly run 10k and even some 15k mile OFCIs on "normal" cellulose filters (Wix and TGs).
Taking the filter apart only proved to be an exercise in futility; boring and nothing wrong.

Same story here, except my change intervals were more typically around 17k, and my cellulose filters were mostly Purolators (before their tearing epidemic), plus a few orange Frams and one Toyota (Denso).

People worry too much about non-problems!
_________________________
2011 Toyota Prius now at 88K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K

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#4665083 - 02/13/18 06:34 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: goodtimes]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17762
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Hybrids and plug in hybrids are not necessarily easy on oil. They often run short times and turn off. On my Volt my gas used since last Sept is 1.5 gals over 1300 miles. I don't drive a lot. All the charging was free. I am trying to run the engine more this year. Today I drove it 10 miles on the engine, which gets it warmed up properly. It won't go on again for another two weeks or more. On the 07 Prius bought new it always had 5K changes, and I wouldn't go 10K no matter what anyone says.


Curious on what kind of OCI/FCI does the manual shows. I can see how the engine on a hybrid might be used pretty inconsistently, and therefore could make a set schedule too general. Maybe they use an OLM that takes into account how many miles or hours the engine ran vs how many miles the car traveled in total (?). Most automakers today say change the oil every year regardless of mileage.

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#4665120 - 02/13/18 07:09 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: ZeeOSix]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... Curious on what kind of OCI/FCI does the manual shows. I can see how the engine on a hybrid might be used pretty inconsistently, and therefore could make a set schedule too general. Maybe they use an OLM that takes into account how many miles or hours the engine ran vs how many miles the car traveled in total (?). ...
No, nothing that finely tuned. Toyota likes to keep things super-simple for us dummies. Thus, there's no true OLM, and no difference in oil recommended or in their recommended change intervals for hybrids vs. most of their other models. 0W-20 for everything, everywhere in the USA, every 10k (5k for adverse conditions), year-round.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Prius now at 88K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K

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#4665174 - 02/13/18 07:49 PM Re: OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter? [Re: CT8]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Personally I think the synthetic filter thing is more marketing than anything, but I do happen to use one; Fram Ultra.
Marketing does work wonders.

Canadian pricing on the lower tier Fram stuff is a lot more obnoxious than it is for the Ultra. I can get something similar or better to a regular Fram for much cheaper. But, the Fram Ultra on special winds up being cheaper than the competition of that tier (i.e. Mobil 1, Wix XP, NAPA Platinum), and by a significant margin.

I like the Fram silver can, but it's hard to justify an $11 Fram silver over an $8 Wix or a $12 to $13 Fram Ultra. Both the orange can and silver can here have positioned themselves in no man's land, at least as far as I'm concerned. I suspect their sales, thanks to market penetration, would suggest otherwise, but that's another matter.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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