Recent Topics
Re-using building materials esp nails
by andyd
06/18/18 08:57 AM
Central A/C [censored] out
by TOMJ
06/18/18 08:43 AM
08 Scion tC under valve cover pics
by Highboy
06/18/18 08:39 AM
Storing extension ladded in garage?
by maverickfhs
06/18/18 08:27 AM
Do you let your tool batteries go dead in storage
by Snagglefoot
06/18/18 07:20 AM
Any news on what happened to this plane?
by Exhaustgases
06/18/18 02:36 AM
E4OD fluid ?
by Exhaustgases
06/18/18 02:23 AM
Update password ?
by meadows
06/17/18 11:59 PM
Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder
by Reddy45
06/17/18 11:56 PM
Nissan DLR put 0w20 in car that specs 5w30. worry?
by CrAlt
06/17/18 10:40 PM
revive Nicd battery
by Donald
06/17/18 10:27 PM
Need help finding an apartment for friend
by RazorsEdge
06/17/18 10:07 PM
ceratec with redline 5w30?
by 08z06
06/17/18 09:53 PM
does your COMCAST modem have weak wifi??
by edwardh1
06/17/18 09:50 PM
I hate stuck thermostats
by jakewells
06/17/18 09:49 PM
Mag1 75w90
by SavagePatch
06/17/18 09:32 PM
Old batteries at HD
by bbhero
06/17/18 09:27 PM
Buying a CPO Toyota - still get inspected?
by Parlay_Slow
06/17/18 09:08 PM
Water Pump Paper Gasket With RTV? Longevity?
by nobb
06/17/18 08:22 PM
Who makes Briggs & Stratton oil?
by spk2000
06/17/18 08:13 PM
Newest Members
WtsTacoma01, Orion62, Revd, blinky1041, mostdecent
65262 Registered Users
Who's Online
91 registered (4WD, Artem, Astro14, Backwoods41695, badtlc, AndyB, 7 invisible), 1527 Guests and 35 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65262 Members
67 Forums
285515 Topics
4764907 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#4455860 - 07/11/17 03:16 AM Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear?
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2376
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
So yesterday i was going back and forth with a really reputable engine builder on Facebook, the guy is a very experienced engine builder who specialises in building very high horsepower Turbo Ford Cologne V6 engines, he's been building them since the 90s and he said to me that he noticed the engines that had been run on full synthetic oils had more cylinder wear, despite being cleaner and having less Turbo issues.
I was really surprised with what he said, what do you think?
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

Top
#4455862 - 07/11/17 03:49 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2183
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
So yesterday i was going back and forth with a really reputable engine builder on Facebook, the guy is a very experienced engine builder who specialises in building very high horsepower Turbo Ford Cologne V6 engines, he's been building them since the 90s and he said to me that he noticed the engines that had been run on full synthetic oils had more cylinder wear, despite being cleaner and having less Turbo issues.
I was really surprised with what he said, what do you think?

In the context of oil film thickness, I agree with him. blush

Top
#4455874 - 07/11/17 05:06 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 7389
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I think any "very high horsepower Turbo Ford Cologne V6 engine" is going to see wear escalated over what most of us would see as "normal". I am not convinced he's wrong or right, but I'd have to see his data. I presume he measures a lot of clearances, but can he show the data as a controlling input? Does the output (high cylinder wear) signal with the input of oil base stock?

That market (highly modded Cologne V-6) is a niche within a niche within a niche ... Not a lot of data to observe for contrast. Nothing I can find anyway.

I suspect it's anecdotal.


Edited by dnewton3 (07/11/17 05:07 AM)
_________________________
The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money

Top
#4455901 - 07/11/17 06:04 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 20446
Loc: Upstate NY
There have been discussions in the past that synthetic oil does not allow the rings to properly wear-in so they provide proper sealing and proper compression.

But I believe this is mainly in rebuilt engines as those shops do not have the super expensive machines for engine manufacture that the auto makers do.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)


Top
#4455917 - 07/11/17 06:45 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: dnewton3]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2376
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I think any "very high horsepower Turbo Ford Cologne V6 engine" is going to see wear escalated over what most of us would see as "normal". I am not convinced he's wrong or right, but I'd have to see his data. I presume he measures a lot of clearances, but can he show the data as a controlling input? Does the output (high cylinder wear) signal with the input of oil base stock?

That market (highly modded Cologne V-6) is a niche within a niche within a niche ... Not a lot of data to observe for contrast. Nothing I can find anyway.

I suspect it's anecdotal.

Well what you know in the US as the Merkur Xr4ti, in the UK and Europe is called Sierra, some of these Sierras had 2.8 and 2.9 Ford Cologne V6 engines, and there is a company called Turbo Technics in the UK that has been Turbocharging these for over 30 years now, he specifically specialises in those Turbo Techincs Sierras, they range from 200-400 Hp for the 2.8 Mfi Cologne up to even 500+ Hp for the most wild 2.9 Efi versions, which is a lot for a pushrod Cologne V6 indeed.

He hasn't shown me any actual evidence, just that apparently when he strips down these engines, the ones run on synthetic oils apparently show more cylinder wear.
I don't think he is lying, why would he? just that i find it interesting that he is finding more cylinder wear on engines run on full synthetic oils.
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

Top
#4455961 - 07/11/17 07:58 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13655
Loc: Illinois
Most all engines in NASCAR, Indy car, F1, Drifting, American LeMans, All sport car racing, Rally racing, and others use synthetic oil. Not to mention some of the worlds finest production engines, like Corvette, Ford GT, Porsche, Bentley, Mercedes Benz, and others.


Edited by tig1 (07/11/17 08:01 AM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 49K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


Top
#4455963 - 07/11/17 08:00 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
henni Offline


Registered: 12/28/11
Posts: 289
Loc: key largo,fl
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver

He hasn't shown me any actual evidence, just that apparently when he strips down these engines, the ones run on synthetic oils apparently show more cylinder wear.


So what oil does he use or tell his customers to use in this specific application ?
_________________________
2014 Ridgeline RTL with Navi

Top
#4455972 - 07/11/17 08:20 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
Panzerman Offline


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 4203
Loc: Port Orange, Florida
I wouldn't believe this statement true if it was Conventional oil v.s Synthetic of the same weight. Synthetic oils are usually run at a thinner weight thinking they can get away with it because well... They are synthetic and I think this is where the problems begin.


Edited by Panzerman (07/11/17 08:21 AM)
_________________________

2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack

Top
#4455989 - 07/11/17 08:39 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: henni]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2376
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
Originally Posted By: henni
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver

He hasn't shown me any actual evidence, just that apparently when he strips down these engines, the ones run on synthetic oils apparently show more cylinder wear.


So what oil does he use or tell his customers to use in this specific application ?

Cheap 20w50 dino i think, he just mentioned Halfords which is a general parts store in the UK and they make a 20w50 Dino oil, it's API SE/CC and on paper looks pretty bottom of the barrel stuff...
Personally would never run a API SE/CC Dino oil in a Turbo engine with high boost, but apparently he does!
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

Top
#4455990 - 07/11/17 08:40 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
AirgunSavant Offline


Registered: 07/22/15
Posts: 3772
Loc: MD
Is it possible that the full synthetic oil users also use top tier filters with glass enhanced media?

Top
#4455991 - 07/11/17 08:47 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
circuitsmith Online   content


Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 615
Loc: Wash, DC
It's possible this engine builder saw increased cylinder wear from one particular brand and weight of synthetic oil.
After all, he's working in "a niche within a niche within a niche".
_________________________
2006 Toyota Matrix 5-sp. 1zz-fe 5000mi/12mo OCI
Any major brand dino 5w-30 on sale

Top
#4455995 - 07/11/17 08:52 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9371
Loc: Upper Midwest
Yet another exclusive revelation from an oil industry outsider, this time "a really reputable engine builder on Facebook."

I've used synthetic oil exclusively in every vehicle I've operated since about 1980, most of them to very high miles. I've even broken in an engine on synthetic after a rebuild (1981 Mazda 626).

Somehow I just have a hard time getting worried that I've caused more wear.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 227K
1996 Honda Accord, 262K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 394K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4455996 - 07/11/17 08:55 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2376
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
Maybe it is that he has seen more cylinder wear ona particular synthetic oil, the conversation started with a post from a guy who has one of these Turbo'd Cologne V6s, and he made a post saying that his turbo shaft had play and he was looking to have it re-built, i recomended that he should use Mobil 1 or Valvoline VR1 5W-50 Full synthetic, not a bad choice i think ( stock the 2.8i 160 Hp Cologne V6 specs 20W-40 or 20W-50 according to my haynes manual )
And then this guy, the builder stepped in and said " a properly built engine doesn't need a fancy oil"

Most people i've found run 10W-40 Synthetic blends in these ( typically API SL/SM and A3/B4 or A3/B3 in Europe ).
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

Top
#4455998 - 07/11/17 08:59 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: kschachn]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2376
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Yet another exclusive revelation from an oil industry outsider, this time "a really reputable engine builder on Facebook."

I've used synthetic oil exclusively in every vehicle I've operated since about 1980, most of them to very high miles. I've even broken in an engine on synthetic after a rebuild (1981 Mazda 626).

Somehow I just have a hard time getting worried that I've caused more wear.

I told him that i would have a really hard time believing that a synthetic oil would cause more cylinder wear than a dino oil, but he just said "It's what i've seen from my 25 years of experience"
And provided no actual evidence..
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

Top
#4456002 - 07/11/17 09:06 AM Re: Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear? [Re: FordCapriDriver]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver

I told him that i would have a really hard time believing that a synthetic oil would cause more cylinder wear than a dino oil, but he just said "It's what i've seen from my 25 years of experience"
And provided no actual evidence..


So he's "seen" it but has presented no proof?

Sounds like some Synthetic Oil distributor would not bow to his blackmail for a huge discount.

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >