Synthetic oils cause more cylinder wear?

[FCD]

Originally Posted By: RazorsEdge
Posts like this are one reason why I dont even bother posting,because it's so rediculous someone would even say somethin so ignorant.

I've built engines for both street and racing and they've used synthetics with no issues.

It ain't me saying it! just some guy i talked to on Facebook remember.

 

[Silk]

I'm not going to discount this - he's working on the same engine, day in, day out, and he's going to pick up things out of the ordinary. What's not obvious to us is going to be dogs balls to him, and he's going to say, ''What's going on here, why is there more wear in this engine, what is a common factor in the engines with more wear ?''

 

[SR5]

From this link,
http://datnet.org/topic/14125-castrol-qa-thread/

A Castrol tech did a few questions and answers.

Quote:
There is no such thing as the best oil.

The Castrol Edge range is formulated with different base oils to give the best results for the different engines each has been designed for.

You cannot judge the performance of an engine oil by its base stock.

Edge Sport 25W/50 is a mineral oil based on Grp II base stock, as it has been designed for older & larger 2-valve pushrod engines with roller rockers. Synthetics, like Grp IV base oils, do not build up a good film on roller rockers as well as a mineral oil, where valve train forces are very high.

Edge Sport 0W/40 & 10W/60 are synthetic Grp IV products and designed for engines with sliding valve trains or 4 valves or more per cylinder with roller rockers, where valve train loads are lighter than the 2 valve engines and where engine speeds are higher.

Edge Sport 5W/30 is a happy medium utilizing Grp III (HVI) base oils, which provide virtually all of the benefits of Grp IV but at a slightly lower cost.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: SR5
A Castrol tech did a few questions and answers.
Quote:
Edge Sport 25W/50 is a mineral oil based on Grp II base stock, as it has been designed for older & larger 2-valve pushrod engines with roller rockers. Synthetics, like Grp IV base oils, do not build up a good film on roller rockers as well as a mineral oil, where valve train forces are very high.

Does it sounds familiar ?
..... well,to the softies in the thin oil camp, this would sounds odd and 'irrelevant' ......
and paying more for less is smart ,I suppose.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: SR5
From this link,
http://datnet.org/topic/14125-castrol-qa-thread/

A Castrol tech did a few questions and answers.

Quote:
There is no such thing as the best oil.

The Castrol Edge range is formulated with different base oils to give the best results for the different engines each has been designed for.

You cannot judge the performance of an engine oil by its base stock.

Edge Sport 25W/50 is a mineral oil based on Grp II base stock, as it has been designed for older & larger 2-valve pushrod engines with roller rockers. Synthetics, like Grp IV base oils, do not build up a good film on roller rockers as well as a mineral oil, where valve train forces are very high.

Edge Sport 0W/40 & 10W/60 are synthetic Grp IV products and designed for engines with sliding valve trains or 4 valves or more per cylinder with roller rockers, where valve train loads are lighter than the 2 valve engines and where engine speeds are higher.

Edge Sport 5W/30 is a happy medium utilizing Grp III (HVI) base oils, which provide virtually all of the benefits of Grp IV but at a slightly lower cost.


Very interesting discussion! I like how Castrol is actually telling them what base stock each oil is using and not just saying the "Oh it's proprietary blah blah" nonsense. Great post!

 

[Olas]

Here's a collection of fully built Ford v6s that all use synthetic

http://www.ricwood.com/essexv6.html

 

[circuitsmith]

Originally Posted By: Syntheticuser
Honestly I don't know. 10w40 in Texas, while not ideal I'm sure, should have been ok. I'm guessing it had to do with air filtration. He would use compressed air to blow out the filter. Never could talk him out of doing it. I'd say the compressed air punched holes in the filter letting dirt in for years.


http://www.widman.biz/English/Analysis/Cleaning.html

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: tig1
Most all engines in NASCAR, Indy car, F1, Drifting, American LeMans, All sport car racing, Rally racing, and others use synthetic oil. Not to mention some of the worlds finest production engines, like Corvette, Ford GT, Porsche, Bentley, Mercedes Benz, and others.


Aren't these racing engines typically torn down after each race such that lasting the race is more important than lasting 100K miles?


Read what the OP said. He was referring to an engine builder that specializes in high HP engines.



I get it now. Than means high hp and/or performance engines have "nothing" in common with typical passenger car engine lubrication/wear.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: tig1
Most all engines in NASCAR, Indy car, F1, Drifting, American LeMans, All sport car racing, Rally racing, and others use synthetic oil. Not to mention some of the worlds finest production engines, like Corvette, Ford GT, Porsche, Bentley, Mercedes Benz, and others.


Aren't these racing engines typically torn down after each race such that lasting the race is more important than lasting 100K miles?


Read what the OP said. He was referring to an engine builder that specializes in high HP engines.



I get it now. Than means high hp and/or performance engines have "nothing" in common with typical passenger car engine lubrication/wear.

I'm not sure you do.

 

[Syntheticuser]

Smith, a good read there. Now only if it would convence him.

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
This is covered in the "Best SEA 30" thread running in PCMO. It's likely related to "drain off" for engines that sit for extended periods. The thing about synthetics is that they tend to exhibit lower surface tension (which helps them clean and gives the W rating a boost), but they can also exhibit drain-off. That is they loose some capillary fill over a few days. Dino's are better at capillary fill due to their inherent higher surface tension. So they often wake-up quieter in the morning in most engines.

Good old quality SAE 30 HD has been shown in some tests to do better at upper cylinder wall protection for cold starts. I would not rule that out for a built engine which will usually see worse fuel dilution due to cam'ing and trying to manage that with cold combustion chambers.

My personal belief is that highly refined dino oils are maybe the best compromise ... I'm betting that way by using Chevron Delo 400 15W-30 SD as my "break-in" oil for any new motors I build. Since I only build flat tappet motors, it helps a lot there too

The race motor discussion does not really apply. Many of these get pre-heated oil and some have priming pumps. Neither of which apply to DD motors. The high performance street cars mentioned may be trading slight cylinder wear for high heat tolerance ...

Interesting... the lower surface tension would also contribute to specially older engines having more valvetrain noise on synthetic oils right?


Usually, and it's very evident on cold start. If they are clicking and clacking after start after sitting a week, you know what it's from

 

[fdcg27]

Well, if the guy really is someone who tears down and builds up engines, then this is a useful data point.
From a Facebook post, who knows?
A lot of us do seem to assume that a synthetic labeled oil must always be "better".
Maybe not.

 

[4ever4d]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Well, if the guy really is someone who tears down and builds up engines, then this is a useful data point.
From a Facebook post, who knows?
A lot of us do seem to assume that a synthetic labeled oil must always be "better".
Maybe not.

So true and we all know what "assume" means. Conventional oils are still a very viable option. Synthetics are not the be all end all they are touted to be. Sorry for any bubble busting!

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Originally Posted By: Syntheticuser
Honestly I don't know. 10w40 in Texas, while not ideal I'm sure, should have been ok. I'm guessing it had to do with air filtration. He would use compressed air to blow out the filter. Never could talk him out of doing it. I'd say the compressed air punched holes in the filter letting dirt in for years.


http://www.widman.biz/English/Analysis/Cleaning.html


0.0

I had no idea. Makes me glad I've never tried to blow one out

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: SR5
From this link,
http://datnet.org/topic/14125-castrol-qa-thread/

A Castrol tech did a few questions and answers.

Quote:
There is no such thing as the best oil.

The Castrol Edge range is formulated with different base oils to give the best results for the different engines each has been designed for.

You cannot judge the performance of an engine oil by its base stock.

Edge Sport 25W/50 is a mineral oil based on Grp II base stock, as it has been designed for older & larger 2-valve pushrod engines with roller rockers. Synthetics, like Grp IV base oils, do not build up a good film on roller rockers as well as a mineral oil, where valve train forces are very high.

Edge Sport 0W/40 & 10W/60 are synthetic Grp IV products and designed for engines with sliding valve trains or 4 valves or more per cylinder with roller rockers, where valve train loads are lighter than the 2 valve engines and where engine speeds are higher.

Edge Sport 5W/30 is a happy medium utilizing Grp III (HVI) base oils, which provide virtually all of the benefits of Grp IV but at a slightly lower cost.


Very interesting discussion! I like how Castrol is actually telling them what base stock each oil is using and not just saying the "Oh it's proprietary blah blah" nonsense. Great post!


You do realize they only told you what you wanted to hear. Their base oils are proprietary also.