YTD 2018: Jeep Outselling all Toyota/Lexus Cars

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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'd love a Wrangler. Found one locally that was perfect. Factory options, wheels, tires, everything. $52k. Woof.




If by "woof" you mean a ridiculous price then I'm there, too. Unbelievably expensive.


That is nuts.

We were killing time while her Volvo was at the dealer getting aligned. Brand new 2017 4 door Wrangler. Decent options (A/C, electric windows/ seats, alloy wheels, hard top w/ full doors) for 30k. I can't think of a better new vehicle buy aside from a Tacoma.

The more I go on, I am just not sold on the JL yet. I liked the JK from day one so we shall see..
 
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Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'd love a Wrangler. Found one locally that was perfect. Factory options, wheels, tires, everything. $52k. Woof.




If by "woof" you mean a ridiculous price then I'm there, too. Unbelievably expensive.


That is nuts.

We were killing time while her Volvo was at the dealer getting aligned. Brand new 2017 4 door Wrangler. Decent options (A/C, electric windows/ seats, alloy wheels, hard top w/ full doors) for 30k. I can't think of a better new vehicle buy aside from a Tacoma.

The more I go on, I am just not sold on the JL yet. I liked the JK from day one so we shall see..


I like the JL, but I will not buy the first year of any new platform, no matter what I see or hear about how good it is. I also think that the prices might not go up as much going forward if the Bronco takes off. I'll give the JL until 2020 before I even think of selling or trading my 2016 JK in, or replacing the Liberty with a JL and keeping the 2016 JK. The Bronco might be so good I buy that and skip the JL altogether.
 
My personal experience. Jeep reliability? I've owned two and wrenched on more.

93 GC. to be fair, I bought this with over 200k on it and sold around 250,000. It was, for what it was, solid. they weren't known for reliable A/C so I didn't repair this one either. A/W A4 trans was solid and super reliable as long as you didn't overheat it AW4 trans was rare in this vehicle. I6 engine was easily worked on and quite durable. It was a mountain goat even with mild A/T tires. not a great HWY cruiser. didn't complain about towing within reason. Mine was so old I can't really fault the failures I had with it, power window mechanicals, alternator, water pump, as at 200k that car owed me nothing. Even so, it was hard to live with the amount of upkeep it needed by then. It was by far the most enjoyable vehicle I owned. There's something about that one which spoke to me. The first gen also saw the beginning of daimler's universal transmission architecture... 41TE, 42RFE, 44RE, 46RE, 42LE... all using common inside parts built for front drive, rear drive, and front drive front facing layouts. There were some serious teething pains in the early years with that. The 41TE used in neons and minivans never really did become totally ironed out, but the RWD and front drive front facing designs I think did.

The generation after that was plagued with creature comfort issues. most notably HVAC. Some level of transmission issues too if I recall. However, it may have been a sweet spot for the GC lineup in terms of reliability.

08 GC. multiple failed power window switch gear. Maligned blend door problem from day 1. Stalling/idling problem which resulted in engine lurching the car forward as it would stumble and re-catch (so during that tight manuever in the garage or in traffic the engine would stumble and lurch forward, no good). But not if the A/C was on. fuel rail test port leaked fuel into the engine bay without warning. valve tap started at 36,000 on full synthetic oil diet, and started showing rod knock at higher temps if towing light. never threw a code so repairs were just part swapping. I sold it and now see on the boards where it's a common problem but not a common fix. known for misaligned rear axle tubes from the manufacturer. Body flex was so bad the doors creaked against the body if you were so bold as to set one wheel atop a curb. One day I entered a setting change on the EVIC and it promptly shut off and the dash went nuts. I can't make this stuff up. Oddly enough, however, it was super comfortable, had a great stereo, and handled /excellent/. The MB-sourced Nag1 transmission was a dream. It was in my opinion one of the best 5spd ATs produced. The 3.7 was a good design, but I think only so-so manufactured, and mine was probably not a good one. That vehicle was a mixed bag.

We looked at a newer chero for my son. Of the little 'utes, it had the best interior, ride quality, and handling dynamics of the ones we looked at. compared with rav4, escape, compass, and someting else I can't remember. But the 9 speed with the four banger did things that were entirely unacceptable if it were another brand. A honda shifting like that? people would condemn it. Couldn't make up its mind, and when it did it might (or might not) into the next gear with enough force to make me wonder about engine mounts. My son and I really wanted this car to work out. We went to the jeep forums and.... no. It was not uncommon to see, "two transmission replacements under warranty, and now it's doing it again. must sell before the warranty runs out."

So for Jeep, I can't sum them up as a brand. I think it's better to sum them by division. I suspect the wrangler is still internally designed and managed by the same team that had it 10 years ago, and it's consistent. Look at how they dress cables and set the engine bay? Well-dressed. Clean. Easy to get in there, maintian, and get the mud out. Electronics are well-protected. The wrangler gets a lot of well-designed love, and they don't cost-cut the details in that vehicle. I noticed similar with RAM trucks 10 years ago, don't know about now. I hate to say it, but everything else FWD is a neon. And that's not bad, but it is not the same. I have no experience with the RWD sedan family.

-m
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
It validates that the CUV/SUV thingy is what people want. I think that's pretty much a given now that sedans are dying and may be dead in 10-15 years. Still don't get the love for Jeep though.


Aside from my 97 which I bought just because I needed a winter beater, I don't really get it either. The wrangler offers so little for the money, yet people buy them like crazy. I get resale, but they're more expensive than they should be to begin with. I looked at them last year before getting my Frontier. Would a Wrangler do better off road? 100%. In just about every other measurable way? Not really... I test drove a "sport" 4 door. Pre-owned it was like 32k. They are mostly status symbol vehicles. Kudos to those that use them for what they were intended though.
 
Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
... Also, the 4.0 might have been partially an AMC design, but they never made it. It came out in '87 when they were purchased by Chrysler.
Based heavily on an AMC design that came out in '64.

And your point is? "Jeep" was never "Jeep" on it's own...it's always been a product of somebody else. The fuel/ignition system in the 4.0 was never an AMC product. Then Chrysler redesigned the engine in 1991 and again very heavily in 1996. I suspect the original AMC 4.2L design borrowed heavily from the other brands of inline 6 at the time, which aren't much different.

Prior to the introduction of the 4.0L, AMC had to use the CHEVROLET 2.8L V6 in their Cherokees...which was a turd. I will concede that 1984-1986 Cherokees were not a reliable product.

Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Reliable engines by themselves do not make a car reliable. I can think of a number of unreliable cars with a 318 V8 or a slant six.

Sorry, I guess I forgot to point out the reliable body, the reliable transmission, the reliable transfer case and axles...etc. *sigh*

There is a reason old Cherokees and Wranglers still cost so much. Way more than a competitive SUV from another brand. It's very common for them to be driven well past 300,000 miles without major work.

The transmission in the Cherokee was an AW product...made in the same factory as Toyota transmissions.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: HowAboutThis
In the past they were never known to be very trouble free, if I remember correctly.


You remember wrong. The Jeep 4.2/4.0L inline 6 is one of the most reliable engines ever built. The 2.5L 4 cylinder is the same minus 2 cylinders. Old Cherokees and Wranglers hold excellent resale value for their extremely good reputation of being reliable even into old age.

What they were not known for is gas mileage.
Well, the 4.0L engine (not made by Jeep, is an AMC engine) is wonderfully reliable, it's the rest of the Jeep around it that's questionable...


The funny thing is my parents suffered with 85 AMC Eagle with the 4.2. It was a terribly constructed vehicle. That all being said my dad was regional saleman on the road and put over 295k on ours with not single mechanical engine or transmission, or AWD problem. The rest of vehicle was absolute garbage. We just parked it in a field and it sat and finally a Jeep person CJ7 purchased just for engine.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Still don't get the love for Jeep though.

It's a Jeep thing...you wouldn't understand.





I'm a mid sized fan and don't tow anything large enough to need towed by a diesel. Why would I want a diesel truck? Lol.

Unless you mean a diesel Colorado.....
 
Not surprising they are selling a lot of Jeeps. Cant beat a Grand Cherokee or Wrangler, they have improved the drive trains, interiors etc

Even the Cherokees are decent if you want something less capable.

Wifes 15 Overland has been trouble free, cant beat the Hemi 8spd and all the luxury for the money, plus lifetime maxcare.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
I've got a new JL Wrangler and it is amazing. I love my JK Wrangler, but there really is no comparison. I'm creeping up on 5k miles and it has no issues. Fit and finish are excellent, the engine/6speed tranny are a perfect match, and it gets better mpg than my JK even though it is running on 35" tires. The new soft top is light years ahead of anything before it. It is VERY easy to operate, and there are no zippers. I can jump out and put it up or down in about 10 seconds. It is better on road and more capable off-road. They hit a grand slam with the new Wrangler and they are now raking in the cash. When they turn the new pickup loose, they'll hit it even further. They are killing it right now with Jeep.


So how do you like the ESS system so far?
 
Originally Posted By: meep

We looked at a newer chero for my son. Of the little 'utes, it had the best interior, ride quality, and handling dynamics of the ones we looked at. compared with rav4, escape, compass, and someting else I can't remember. But the 9 speed with the four banger did things that were entirely unacceptable if it were another brand. A honda shifting like that? people would condemn it. Couldn't make up its mind, and when it did it might (or might not) into the next gear with enough force to make me wonder about engine mounts. My son and I really wanted this car to work out. We went to the jeep forums and.... no. It was not uncommon to see, "two transmission replacements under warranty, and now it's doing it again. must sell before the warranty runs out."


I just got my Cherokee transmission reprogrammed. I can confirm before the programming, it was exactly as you described.

After, it's a completely different creature.

These ZF units seem to be heavily reliant on programming, and if it's not right, it's really not right.
 
Jeep and other Chrysler vehicles are rated the WORSE set of cars by ConsumerReports Magazine.

These Cheep, I mean Jeep cars have a reputation for having a lot of problems.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Jeep and other Chrysler vehicles are rated the WORSE set of cars by ConsumerReports Magazine.

These Cheep, I mean Jeep cars have a reputation for having a lot of problems.


Leasing a Jeep can be a very wise financial move by the customer.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Jeep and other Chrysler vehicles are rated the WORSE set of cars by ConsumerReports Magazine.

These Cheep, I mean Jeep cars have a reputation for having a lot of problems.


I'll take my 470HP AWD luxury Jeep with its just under 9,000lb towing capacity over your pious, err, I mean Prius any day. But that's pretty much the attitude I expect from your ilk. The same reason you have your gas mileage in your signature, right?
smirk.gif
 
Could you imagine having to drive a Toyota, and still feeling insecure enough to repeatedly tell strangers how supposedly unreliable their [non-toyota] is? It's clear that just owning the toyota is not satisfying, to the point that the illusion of superiority needs constant daily maintainance by deriding others and all of their inferior brands, while dropping pro-toyota platitudes like an obese elephant drops puckey.... ugh.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Jeep and other Chrysler vehicles are rated the WORSE set of cars by ConsumerReports Magazine.

These Cheep, I mean Jeep cars have a reputation for having a lot of problems.

consumer reports lmao
 
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Could you imagine having to drive a Toyota, and still feeling insecure enough to repeatedly tell strangers how supposedly unreliable their [non-toyota] is? It's clear that just owning the toyota is not satisfying, to the point that the illusion of superiority needs constant daily maintainance by deriding others and all of their inferior brands, while dropping pro-toyota platitudes like an obese elephant drops puckey.... ugh.

Have owned many toyotas, can confirm, wholly unsatisfying experience.

I happily trade perceived reliability for not being in another boring, bland toyota.
 
For heaven sake don't compare Toyota (which owns classic brands like Lexus, Yamaha, Denso, Aisin etc etc) with Chrysler (a company no one wants on their portfolio).

They may build bland vehicles but awfully reliable vehicles!!
 
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