Wix XP efficiency

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
WIX won't say anywhere on their website or by a phone call to their their Tech Line what spec they test to, they say it's "propriety information". Seems fishy to me.

Unfortunately, since they whitewashed the data on the other filters years ago, it's all fishy.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: CajunLariat
WOW! Thats alot to read dnewton3. My dad did say you were the member to tell it like it is. In simple terms would it be better if we bought a napa Gold oil filter instead of a Wix xp? My dad (blueovalfitter) likes Motorcraft oil filters. I work at a Ford dealership and can buy Motorcraft filters a little bit less then what Walmart sells them for. And after tax also. Would a Motorcraft filter be better then a Wix xp? And better then a napa Gold? My dad had me buy a Fram ultra for my engine but he wants to use a napa Gold or a Wix xp on his engine for his next oil change. Also on my engine after we let the Mobil1 0w40 finish cleaning the engine.


Zee and I would both agree ...
Use a Wix/NG over the XP/Plat any day. I'll take 95% over 50% all the time. (at 20um)


My go-to filters are the TG and Wix/NG. Good pricing, easily attained, and last out to 15k miles easily (proven by my filter dissections).

Other brands that have good construction and offer efficiency (at 80% or greater at 20um) would also be perfectly acceptable. I'm not brand loyal; I just buy what suits my needs at the best cost. There are others from M/H, Baldwin/Hastings, Donaldson that are also great products.

 

[RitcheyRch]

So, after reading this it is my understanding that the regular Wix is better than the Wix XP?

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: Richie
So, after reading this it is my understanding that the regular Wix is better than the Wix XP?
The Wix/Napa Gold has higher efficiency than the XP/Napa Platinum-at a lower price. That's a double win in my book.

 

[RitcheyRch]

Good to know and will be changing to the plain Wix from the Wix XP at my next OCI.

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: Richie
So, after reading this it is my understanding that the regular Wix is better than the Wix XP?
The Wix/Napa Gold has higher efficiency than the XP/Napa Platinum-at a lower price. That's a double win in my book.

 

[SnowmanCO]

There must be a reason why luxury car manufacturers like Mercedes, who have suggested 10K or once per year oil changes for quite some time using what they refer to as the "fleece" filters instead of paper. I will stick with my XP because of this. http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachme...ce-dsc04646.jpg

Mann+Hummel (Wix's parent company) know what they are talking about. Mercedes OEM filters are Mann fleece filters. I would trust them over a 101% efficient Fram any day. All they do is filtration. Unlike Fram (Honeywell - who produces everything you can think of).

 

[Toptierpao]

I just purchased an XP last week and will give it a try.If I am happy with it,I will go to XP on everything.For now,it will be an experiment.For some reason,they do not want the public to know true filtration numbers.It is either really bad or really good. Why is it more money than their regular line of filters? The XE line is another of their filters where they refuse to share efficiency numbers.Are they worried that if word gets out,it will take market share away from the probably better margin rates of the lower lines for which they market? There are lubrication engineers and premier lab analyst who recommend the XP line.It is all fishy imo.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Toptierpao
I just purchased an XP last week and will give it a try.If I am happy with it,I will go to XP on everything.For now,it will be an experiment.For some reason,they do not want the public to know true filtration numbers.It is either really bad or really good. Why is it more money than their regular line of filters? The XE line is another of their filters where they refuse to share efficiency numbers.Are they worried that if word gets out,it will take market share away from the probably better margin rates of the lower lines for which they market? There are lubrication engineers and premier lab analyst who recommend the XP line.It is all fishy imo.

What will you look at to determine if you are happy with it? The thing about oil filters is that without filtration data, how does one discriminate between any two random filters? I've bought different brands in the past and I've been "happy" with them all, at least as far as that word goes.

 

[RitcheyRch]

Just odd that the cheaper regular Wix filters better than the more expensive Wix XP. You would think it be the exact opposite.

 

[SnowmanCO]

IMO, Wix's performance numbers are correct (B2=20). It is just being interpreted incorrectly. Some people are saying 50% at 20 microns (which I would argue is incorrect - it's silly bad), and a few people have wondered if this really means 95% at 2 microns. The beta ratio's specified for Wix's normal filter line are in a completely different format, and I think that adds to the confusion (2/20=6/20 or 50% @ 6 microns, and 95% @ 20 microns). This topic is also discussed here:https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3322042/Article_from_Baldwin_-_%22U Fleece filters were originally developed by Mercedes to support better filtration over longer intervals, and MANN is the manufacturer for Mercedes using that design. Check out this forum - https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w203/335009-wix-filters-question.html

Specifically:

"Oil filters!!!! - M+H filters are blown polyester - known as "fleece" They were developed with Benz for long drain with 229.5 approved oils. They are the only approved filter for V6 & larger engines & previously the M271. The K&N oil filter is a rebranded Mann fleece filter as is the Bosch. They are 1 micron nominal 3 micron absolute - 75 beta ratio filters & will comfortable achieve old ISO 16/11 cleanliness in one pass new. The only other filter I know that will do this off the shelf is a Donaldson Syntec synthetic media hydraulic filter specified similarly."

Not that everybody on every forum is correct, but this would make sense. It agrees with the B2=20 meaning 95% of 2 micron particles. I have a Mercedes C300 (using MANN OEM filter), and a Mazda 3 (Using Wix XP cartridge filter). The media on the filters is identical. Mercedes is well known for developing new technologies, and not limiting those technologies to spread industry wide in the automotive industry. Think ABS and Electronic Stability Control. The synthetic media for all Wix/Mann filters is most likely produces at the same facility, and then distributed to where the filters are manufactured. This is probably why the Wix support people don't understand the numbers. It's Mercedes/MANN technology being incorporated (not designed by Wix) into the Wix line. Wix is simply passing down the media filtering specs provided by MANN. My MANN filter is manufactured in Germany, Mazda Wix XP in Poland (where their standard filter is also manufactured), and my F150 Wix XP filter is made in the USA. That doesn't mean the media was made in Germany/USA/Poland.

 

[Toptierpao]

Originally Posted By: kschachn

What will you look at to determine if you are happy with it? The thing about oil filters is that without filtration data, how does one discriminate between any two random filters? I've bought different brands in the past and I've been "happy" with them all, at least as far as that word goes.


Good question. Like yourself,I could and should be happy with most premium filters out there,but,if there is something better that does not significantly cost more,I tend to go in that direction.

I will know with a uoa in 2 ways.

1)Fuel dilution.....We have direct injected vehicles which always run around 3 % fuel dilution verified via GC testing. I have reduced that some and want to bring it down more if I can.Word is that the XP does a very good job in that respect. Time to test that word since MG is no longer being used. Thats the easy part.

2)The hard part of the test...........I will also know with a uoa but this is out of my realm and will need expertise to see whats really going on within the engine. This may take two or more uoa's ,and I will need the expertise of someone like Terry Dyson.Pretty expensive,so,I am not so sure I will be going that route. With that said,FD is the thing for me to tackle and I can figure that out on my own I believe.

 

[Toptierpao]

Originally Posted By: SnowmanCO
IMO, Wix's performance numbers are correct (B2=20). It is just being interpreted incorrectly. Some people are saying 50% at 20 microns (which I would argue is incorrect - it's silly bad), and a few people have wondered if this really means 95% at 2 microns. The beta ratio's specified for Wix's normal filter line are in a completely different format, and I think that adds to the confusion (2/20=6/20 or 50% @ 6 microns, and 95% @ 20 microns). This topic is also discussed here:https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3322042/Article_from_Baldwin_-_%22U Fleece filters were originally developed by Mercedes to support better filtration over longer intervals, and MANN is the manufacturer for Mercedes using that design. Check out this forum - https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w203/335009-wix-filters-question.html



That is what I thought as well. The answers that wix gives does nothing but confuse people.At this point it is all a guessing game.

 

[SnowmanCO]

I can't see how an oil filter could help with fuel dilution. Fuel is a liquid, just like oil, that won't get filtered out. I could be wrong.

I was looking at trying to contact MANN to see if they have any Beta numbers on the Mercedes fleece filter (H U7 18/5X). I can't find anything online, but I can try to contact them. That should be a clear indicator for the performance of the XP line.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: SnowmanCO
IMO, Wix's performance numbers are correct (B2=20). It is just being interpreted incorrectly. Some people are saying 50% at 20 microns (which I would argue is incorrect - it's silly bad), and a few people have wondered if this really means 95% at 2 microns. The beta ratio's specified for Wix's normal filter line are in a completely different format, and I think that adds to the confusion (2/20=6/20 or 50% @ 6 microns, and 95% @ 20 microns). This topic is also discussed here:https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3322042/Article_from_Baldwin_-_%22U Fleece filters were originally developed by Mercedes to support better filtration over longer intervals, and MANN is the manufacturer for Mercedes using that design. Check out this forum - https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w203/335009-wix-filters-question.html

Specifically:

"Oil filters!!!! - M+H filters are blown polyester - known as "fleece" They were developed with Benz for long drain with 229.5 approved oils. They are the only approved filter for V6 & larger engines & previously the M271. The K&N oil filter is a rebranded Mann fleece filter as is the Bosch. They are 1 micron nominal 3 micron absolute - 75 beta ratio filters & will comfortable achieve old ISO 16/11 cleanliness in one pass new. The only other filter I know that will do this off the shelf is a Donaldson Syntec synthetic media hydraulic filter specified similarly."

Not that everybody on every forum is correct, but this would make sense. It agrees with the B2=20 meaning 95% of 2 micron particles. I have a Mercedes C300 (using MANN OEM filter), and a Mazda 3 (Using Wix XP cartridge filter). The media on the filters is identical. Mercedes is well known for developing new technologies, and not limiting those technologies to spread industry wide in the automotive industry. Think ABS and Electronic Stability Control. The synthetic media for all Wix/Mann filters is most likely produces at the same facility, and then distributed to where the filters are manufactured. This is probably why the Wix support people don't understand the numbers. It's Mercedes/MANN technology being incorporated (not designed by Wix) into the Wix line. Wix is simply passing down the media filtering specs provided by MANN. My MANN filter is manufactured in Germany, Mazda Wix XP in Poland (where their standard filter is also manufactured), and my F150 Wix XP filter is made in the USA. That doesn't mean the media was made in Germany/USA/Poland.
Wix is a recent acquisition by MANN, the XP/Platinum has been around a lot longer than their corporate marriage. I have a couple of NAPA Platinums at home for my Cummins, I'm going to cut one and post the pictures. I would be really surprised if it's a "fleece" filter.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: SnowmanCO
I can't see how an oil filter could help with fuel dilution. Fuel is a liquid, just like oil, that won't get filtered out. I could be wrong.

I was looking at trying to contact MANN to see if they have any Beta numbers on the Mercedes fleece filter (H U7 18/5X). I can't find anything online, but I can try to contact them. That should be a clear indicator for the performance of the XP line.
Fuel can burn off (at least gasoline can) if the oil gets hot enough, a filter won't remove it-although it can remove some water in the oil. If you have an extra MANN fleece filter laying around, put up media pictures, so we can compare it to the Platinum media.

 

[SnowmanCO]

As to the argument that the XP line has been around longer than MANN+HUMMEL has owned Wix, that is true. That still doesn't mean the XP media couldn't have been made in the same factory as the MANN filter media. That said, many acquisitions occur due to one company being a supplier to another. I know that's the case with my company and it's parent company.

I took some pictures. First, all three together (A MANN and Bosch Mercedes filter (as mentioned in previous threads, the Bosch is a re-branded MANN filter), and the Mazda 3 Wix XP filter. At first look, the Wix XP appears to have a darker media, but I will explain the reason for this later.


Next is a close up of the Wix XP:


Next is a close up of the MANN:


The black marks on the Mercedes filters appear to be pen marks. They are used to indicate when the filter is seated properly. Next, I shot the reason for the darker color of the Wix. All 3 filters are backed with a wire mesh, and the Wix happens to be a black mesh, and the others have a white mesh. The black color of the mesh makes the media look a little darker:

 

[SnowmanCO]

For comparison sake, I also wanted to do a side by side comparison of the Wix XP to the Fram Ultra Synthetic. The Fram has metal mesh backing, versus plastic mesh on the Wix. It appears that doesn't allow the pleats to be as tightly wound. The media appears to be much finer on the Wix XP as well

 

[MParr]

Looking at the photos of those three filters, all of them would be perfectly fine for their applications. It all boils down to personal preference. I think WIX knows what they are doing when designing their products. Soon, the FRAM Ultra Brigade will show up with their 99%@20u stuff.

 

[das_peikko]

Originally Posted By: SnowmanCO
The Fram has metal mesh backing, versus plastic mesh on the Wix.


That may be on the cartridge filter, but my cut open Wix 51040XP has metal mesh backed pleats.

 

[SnowmanCO]

Originally Posted By: das_peikko
Originally Posted By: SnowmanCO
The Fram has metal mesh backing, versus plastic mesh on the Wix.


That may be on the cartridge filter, but my cut open Wix 51040XP has metal mesh backed pleats.


That sounds right. I haven't dissected my F150 filters yet, but I poked a pick at the mesh and it felt like metal. All the dissection videos I have seen indicate metal mesh as well.