When should I do the first oil change?

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You will have answers here both ways. It’s a personal decision for you and you only. As said earlier, whatever helps you to sleep better.

With that said my own preference is to change the factory fill at around the 1000 mile mark then change it again to get on your oci schedule whether that is 5000 miles or 7500 or whatever. Some use the OLM to decide. With that hemi engine having a certain schedule is the best and also the schedule should be determined by how you drive the truck, hard or easy and if you are working the truck as in hauling or towing. All this plays a part. You are in Oregon and while most will think of Portland there are places in Oregon that present h3llish conditions. Your climate has a part to play in this too.

Consider all this and congrats on your new truck.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
oil and filter every 6 months or 5,000 miles whichever comes first.


What if you only have 2000 miles on your oil after 6 months ? Drain it ?


Absolutely. I would drain it if it only had 1,000 miles on it. If fact, that is exactly what has happened with my Scat Pack to date. The OCIs are working out to be every 6 months and about 1,000 miles. It is my toy/show car and only gets driven in perfect weather conditions. Never wet or washed since new. I just dust it off and add another coat of polish.
 
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Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Absolutely. I would drain it if it only had 1,000 miles on it. If fact, that is exactly what has happened with my Scat Pack to date. The OCIs are working out to be every 6 months and about 1,000 miles. It is my toy/show car and only gets driven in perfect weather conditions. Never wet or washed since new. I just dust it off and add another coat of polish.


What happens to oil when it just sits in a pan ? Amsoil says 25,000 miles or one year. What if you only have 2000 miles at the end of one year and you got a $100 worth of oil in the pan ?
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Absolutely. I would drain it if it only had 1,000 miles on it. If fact, that is exactly what has happened with my Scat Pack to date. The OCIs are working out to be every 6 months and about 1,000 miles. It is my toy/show car and only gets driven in perfect weather conditions. Never wet or washed since new. I just dust it off and add another coat of polish.


What happens to oil when it just sits in a pan ? Amsoil says 25,000 miles or one year. What if you only have 2000 miles at the end of one year and you got a $100 worth of oil in the pan ?


I ran into that exact same situation the beginning of this month with my Rubicon. I did a virtual oil change to keep the warranty police happy, and will change the oil and filter next year when I have 5K miles on the lube and filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Absolutely. I would drain it if it only had 1,000 miles on it. If fact, that is exactly what has happened with my Scat Pack to date. The OCIs are working out to be every 6 months and about 1,000 miles. It is my toy/show car and only gets driven in perfect weather conditions. Never wet or washed since new. I just dust it off and add another coat of polish.


What happens to oil when it just sits in a pan ? Amsoil says 25,000 miles or one year. What if you only have 2000 miles at the end of one year and you got a $100 worth of oil in the pan ?


You are asking me what happens? In my case, nothing -- because I would have changed it at the 6 month point.

However, since you are using Amsoil as an authority to believe, then consider the following article. I have posted this before and been ridiculed by BITOG members for believing Amsoil [censored].

Amsoil Article: Chemical Reactions Occur in Motor Oil, Even When Not In Use
By Dan Peterson, Vice President, Technical Development, Amsoil, May 2012

Many people already know that severity of service puts additional stress on engine oil, but we don’t talk much about the effects Father Time has on oil. Chemical and physical changes are occurring in your engine oil from the day it is installed in your vehicle, even when the vehicle is not in use. Just like inside your body, there are a number of different reactions occurring inside your engine that impact its overall health. Like eating too many Big Macs and drinking too much Coca-Cola can accelerate reactions that can harm your health, contaminants introduced into your motor oil can accelerate reactions that can harm your engine.

AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for 25,000 miles in normal service. I’ve driven only 18,000 miles since last spring when I changed my oil, so why do I need to change it after a year in service? The oil level is full, so why not just keep driving and get the full 25,000 miles out of the oil? It may be possible through oil analysis, but without verifying a clean bill of health, the oil must be changed to ensure the vehicle is protected.

Motor oil is continually subjected to a variety of forces and contaminants that degrade the oil’s quality until, ultimately, fresh oil is required. Forces such as oil-pump shear and contaminants such as combustion by-products, fuel, water and coolant all affect the expected life of motor oil.

Combustion by-products pass by the rings, seep into the oil sump and reduce motor oil life. Higher concentrations of by-products in the oil affect the rate at which chemical reactions occur, but the amount of time combustion by-products are in contact with motor oil also has an effect. The acids and free-radicals created when burning gasoline or diesel fuel accelerate chemical reactions that degrade motor oil. When you install brand new oil and start the vehicle, these reactions begin and continue, to an extent, even when the vehicle is not operating. These chemical reactions result in increased viscosity, oxidation and nitration levels in the motor oil.

Fuel dilution is another major cause of motor oil degradation. Vehicles driven for short trips that do not reach normal operating temperatures don’t get hot enough to evaporate fuel from the sump. Gasoline trapped in the oil sump thins the oil and promotes chemical reactions that degrade the oil. This phenomenon is more pronounced in diesel applications because diesel is less volatile and does not readily evaporate, reducing engine oil viscosity as fuel builds up in the oil sump.

Water and glycol contamination tend to occur together, but water without glycol is also common. Glycol, a common component of antifreeze, is a particularly damaging contaminant and is estimated to account for 60 percent of all engine failures. Antifreeze can enter the engine through a leaky head gasket, faulty oil cooler or other area. It doesn’t take much glycol to degrade motor oil, reduce lubricity and react to thicken the oil to the point where the oil pump cannot supply enough oil to the engine for proper lubrication. Once that happens, the engine comes to a screeching stop.

Water is usually the primary source of trouble for oil in a vehicle that is only driven occasionally, such as an RV or a classic car. In those cases, water from condensation can build up in the crankcase and remain there for long periods if the engine is not brought up to operating temperatures on a regular basis. Once an engine is warmed up, the water evaporates and is removed from the engine by the crankcase ventilation system. If not, the water will degrade the oil and potentially promote corrosion within the engine. Other forms of contamination that affect oil life include questionable oil additive products, excessive soot from a poorly running diesel and residue left by pressurized injector cleaning. These contaminants all affect engine oil life over time. as vehicles age, the chance of encountering some or all of these contaminants increases. Since these reactions start with the turn of a key and continue even when the engine is not running, there has to be a time limit placed on lubricant life for good vehicle protection. Without a qualified used oil analysis program in place, a conservative limit is used to ensure the oil is changed prior to becoming critical; hence the one-year limit on AMSOIL Signature Series Motor Oil. Keeping your vehicle working optimally through good preventative maintenance also helps to keep contamination to a minimum, but it does not eliminate it altogether.

The bottom line is that after being used for one year, there are just too many possible chemical reactions to guarantee protection without used oil analysis for verification. If you are using an AMSOIL product, you have proven that you care about your equipment. Making wise choices and following proven techniques is the next step in becoming a lubrication expert. If it is true that information is power, then everyone should be able to explain how contamination affects engine oil life over time – on a quest to reach AMSOIL superhero status
 
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I changed out the factory fill on my new 16 at 3500 or so miles. Factory fill is pyb. I am using PUP 5-20 with a fram ultra. Oci is 6500 or six months which is overkill, but I am from the days of 3000 mile oci. The oil life meter reads about 30% on this OCI.
 
I read the paste SilverSnake. It seems like if we had a fuel that didn't have combustion byproducts; and if we were able to keep moisture out of the oil, we could go way beyond the one year service limit.
 
Amsoil Annual Protection!
Sure we always gotta hear “my 1979 farm truck has xx year old oil” … but when I paid more for a vehicle than my first house … no motor oil is staying in it a year or more …
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Absolutely. I would drain it if it only had 1,000 miles on it. If fact, that is exactly what has happened with my Scat Pack to date. The OCIs are working out to be every 6 months and about 1,000 miles. It is my toy/show car and only gets driven in perfect weather conditions. Never wet or washed since new. I just dust it off and add another coat of polish.


What happens to oil when it just sits in a pan ? Amsoil says 25,000 miles or one year. What if you only have 2000 miles at the end of one year and you got a $100 worth of oil in the pan ?


First off, $100 of Amsoil would require a mighty big pan. The oil ain't that expensive.
Second, we have UOAs here of oil that was run for low miles over multiple years.
These look fine, so the one year barrier has been proven false.
 
I honestly don't think it matters much at all when you do the very first oil change, it's not as if doing a 500 mile oil change means your engine is going to last 500,000 miles but if you had done it at 5000 miles now you've reduced it's life to 300,000. If you were to do a survey of all the super high mileage engines out there, I bet you'd find that 95% of them did not do a super early oil change (under 2k), as that's just not on the radar for the average person.

So there really is no right or wrong answer to this question, at least not in terms of technical proof that it even matters in the long run.

I'm still somewhat undecided as to when I'll do the first oil change on my 2018 Corvette. I do want to switch it over to the new Dexos approved Mobil 1 0w40 but I don't even know when that will start showing up in retail stores (it is going to be factory fill on the 2019 Corvette, which starts production on Jan 29,2018, and yes, that's about 6 months earlier than normal) So I could end up doing my first oil change anywhere from 2000 miles to 5000 miles. I don't really feel the need to do it sooner than 2k, but I also doubt I'd go beyond 5. I have also considering waiting for the oil life monitor to hit 50% for the first oil change, and then for all subsequent oil changes I'll wait until it's close to 0%.

As a footnote, those of you familiar with the C7 Corvette will know that any car that comes with the 10 quart dry sump oil system has a recommended first oil change of 500 miles. That's for the Z06, Grand Sport and cars with the Z51 package. Mine is just the base model Stingray with a 7 quart wet sump so the 500 mile change is not needed.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Great, but none of this guy's publications support the notion that a bunch of early drains are either needed or desirable. This shows you've not read "How to select an Oil and Filter for your Car or Truck" My statements are from page 43. Ignorance on your part does not constitute error on my part.
The notion that an engine given OEM drain intervals won't last past its warranty period is laughable. So where is your published technical data to support this hypothesis? I agree with you that it is laughable, but where's the data? Where is published technical data to show that an engine will last past its warranty period? Please post a link to such data if you can. I asked kschachn the same question and received silence for a response.
You could probably double the recommended drain interval of the FF and do the same with every subsequent drain and the engine would last some multiple of the warranty period anyway. Those are sort of drain intervals used in the EU as compared to what's recommended here, Agreed but maybe those manufactures don't know anything either? Don't put words in my mouth and I won't feed them back to you. MAYBE "those manufacturers" want to sell cars?
Maybe BMW, Mercedes and VAG should have consulted Jim? Here is a PARTIAL list of his consultancies: http://www.noria.com/team/jim-fitch/ How do YOU know they DIDN'T? It is entirely possible that Honda DID consult Jim and chose not to follow his advice or incorporate it into their manual. I am personally a technical consultant in another field and KNOW that my recommendations are not always followed. This in no way devalues my recommendations, nor does it make Mr. Fitch one iota less credible. Mr. Fitch bluntly states in his book that these are his recommendations. RECOMMENDATIONS. RECOMMENDATIONS.
I ran the FF of our newer Accord 8700 miles, giving it a full normal run as those know-nothings at Honda recommended. I've done the same for each subsequent drain. Now pushing 80K, this Accord uses no noticeable amounts of oil in an OCI. So? I've owned cars with 200K+ that didn't use any oil. I'm not impressed; and I am not aware the subject matter is either of our personal experiences. The phrase "know-nothings at Honda" is entirely yours.
Maybe those Honda guys were right and this Fitch guy is wrong? Once again, refer to above link; Jim's PARTIAL list of consultancies...How do you know Honda has NOT consulted with Jim?
Maybe kschachn had a valid point, without regard to the Word of Jim? As I have previously stated, I'll take the word of Jim Fitch over any armchair tribologist on this site including you and/or kschachn. Mr. Fitch has his credentials online, you are free to post yours; or go pick on Trav with 7 pushback questions, I basically agreed with his post and listed reasons why.
I agree with you when you state that the OP should do whatever lets him sleep at night.
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I'm glad there is a small matter we can agree on.
I don't know about you, but I don't find oil drain intervals on factory new engines to be any impediment to a night of good rest. Likewise. Apparently we have different attitudes regarding OCI of FF. I see no reason this should make us mortal enemies, I'm mature enough to let you be wrong. Are you mature enough to let me be wrong? I don't see this as a hill to die on; we just have differing opinions. I simply offered a newbie who asked for thoughts and recommendations some thoughts and recommendations that apparently differ from yours. (Or Honda, but the OP isn't asking about a Honda, is he?) I do not see that you have any valid reasons to give me such push back. Peace.
We are no longer looking at new sixties SBCs nor is this a thread about a field overhaul or some garage rebuild. Don't know where this came from. Perhaps your own imagination?


I challenge you or any skeptic of how clean "modern engine manufacturing" is to waste 5 minutes of your life and watch this youtube video, then tell me again how "clean" new and "modern" engines are today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXVLbzI3xTE

Originally Posted By: Trav
It should have been out of there 700 miles ago at least. I go 100 miles and dump it, then 500 then 1K then normal oci intervals.
Yes engines still shed metal and no engines are not built any cleaner than years ago, machining metal is dirty business there is no way around it.

Edit: The old argument "the filter will catch it" is a bit bogus also, there is a tight clearance oil pump before the filter that can get scored by metal particles especially ferrous metals.
 
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil

I challenge you or any skeptic of how clean "modern engine manufacturing" is to waste 5 minutes of your life and watch this youtube video, then tell me again how "clean" new and "modern" engines are today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXVLbzI3xTE

Originally Posted By: Trav
It should have been out of there 700 miles ago at least. I go 100 miles and dump it, then 500 then 1K then normal oci intervals.
Yes engines still shed metal and no engines are not built any cleaner than years ago, machining metal is dirty business there is no way around it.

Edit: The old argument "the filter will catch it" is a bit bogus also, there is a tight clearance oil pump before the filter that can get scored by metal particles especially ferrous metals.


I've seen that before. It makes me glad I've been dumping the factor fill early, and will continue to do so as long as I'm buying a new car. After many talks over many years with engine builders, machinists, and people in the know, for 'me' it's time and money well spent.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
First off, $100 of Amsoil would require a mighty big pan. The oil ain't that expensive.
Second, we have UOAs here of oil that was run for low miles over multiple years.
These look fine, so the one year barrier has been proven false.


Are you saying you'd go by the OLM even it it took multiple years to get down to zero percent ?
 
You will (and have) receive differing viewpoints on this topic. There is little valid, quantifiable information either beneficial or detrimental to early oil changes. With that said, I always dump the FF at about 1000 miles, do one more short OCI (perhaps 4K or so), then settle into my chosen OCI. This is my "recipe", it has worked for years (for me), and it is what I do on every new car/truck I purchase.

Good luck and enjoy the new truck!
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
You will (and have) receive differing viewpoints on this topic. There is little valid, quantifiable information either beneficial or detrimental to early oil changes. With that said, I always dump the FF at about 1000 miles, do one more short OCI (perhaps 4K or so), then settle into my chosen OCI. This is my "recipe", it has worked for years (for me), and it is what I do on every new car/truck I purchase.

Good luck and enjoy the new truck!

And there you have it. It turned out like the fifty or so threads that pop up each year that mirrored this one. Enjoy the truck!!
 
Wow, Thanks for all the replies, I think I'm going to like this forum. I am going go with an early change and change it this weekend. I'm going to use 5/20w full synthetic. But which one? Pennzoil, royal purple, valvoline or?? Moly or no moly? Sodium? any suggestions?

Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: Twodogs10mm
Wow, Thanks for all the replies, I think I'm going to like this forum. I am going go with an early change and change it this weekend. I'm going to use 5/20w full synthetic. But which one? Pennzoil, royal purple, valvoline or?? Moly or no moly? Sodium? any suggestions?

Thanks


PUP 5W-20. If you can't find it locally, get it on Amazon.
 
Originally Posted By: Twodogs10mm
Wow, Thanks for all the replies, I think I'm going to like this forum. I am going go with an early change and change it this weekend. I'm going to use 5/20w full synthetic. But which one? Pennzoil, royal purple, valvoline or?? Moly or no moly? Sodium? any suggestions?

Thanks




Pick any major brand of oil that meets the specs stated in your manual and go with it. SOPUS, Valvoline, Chevron, Castrol, Mobil 1, etc.
 
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