When do you plan on taking Social Security?
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Originally Posted By: UberArchetype
This decision seems like a fairly obvious one for people seeing the forest for the trees. Sure, there are plenty of detailed reasons and statistics like health status and life expectancy tables telling you to wait. Benefit accrual makes delay seem attractive when running the numbers, and even the government seems to favor or push delay. I just always thought this was because they expected to keep overall payouts minimized at the high level by the simple fact that many people are going to die long before they collect much in the way of SS benefits, no matter when they start. This comes into sharper focus when they do things like pushing up the FRA, which is being considered once again. I don't see how delaying really helps anything but the Federal budget at the 40,000 ft. level.
I thought you got it, but not with your last statement. It's the government bureaucracy. The benefits are supposed to be neutral no matter when you take it, either early or late. But that's based on tables that are now outdated. So look at it this way, the odds are supposed to be neutral, but if you take it later, it's worse for the government because they actually end up paying out more. Regardless of whether you individually die early or not, if a large majority took it later, it would actually hurt the federal budget because the majority would follow the trend and live longer than the tables they're currently using. The calculation probably changes if/when they update the payouts. Taking it early is better for the government because in the aggregate, they end up paying out less.
This decision seems like a fairly obvious one for people seeing the forest for the trees. Sure, there are plenty of detailed reasons and statistics like health status and life expectancy tables telling you to wait. Benefit accrual makes delay seem attractive when running the numbers, and even the government seems to favor or push delay. I just always thought this was because they expected to keep overall payouts minimized at the high level by the simple fact that many people are going to die long before they collect much in the way of SS benefits, no matter when they start. This comes into sharper focus when they do things like pushing up the FRA, which is being considered once again. I don't see how delaying really helps anything but the Federal budget at the 40,000 ft. level.
I thought you got it, but not with your last statement. It's the government bureaucracy. The benefits are supposed to be neutral no matter when you take it, either early or late. But that's based on tables that are now outdated. So look at it this way, the odds are supposed to be neutral, but if you take it later, it's worse for the government because they actually end up paying out more. Regardless of whether you individually die early or not, if a large majority took it later, it would actually hurt the federal budget because the majority would follow the trend and live longer than the tables they're currently using. The calculation probably changes if/when they update the payouts. Taking it early is better for the government because in the aggregate, they end up paying out less.
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Baby boomers... the most selfish, narcissistic generation in human history.
I believe you're talking about millennials...Baby boomers are the last generation not afraid to work...
They worked--but also partied like it would never end. Buying new cars, new homes, and not saving for the future. That's the complaint, not that they didn't work.
Let me put it a different way. The baby boomers were the last generation who earned what they get in retirement...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Baby boomers... the most selfish, narcissistic generation in human history.
I believe you're talking about millennials...Baby boomers are the last generation not afraid to work...
They worked--but also partied like it would never end. Buying new cars, new homes, and not saving for the future. That's the complaint, not that they didn't work.
Let me put it a different way. The baby boomers were the last generation who earned what they get in retirement...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Baby boomers... the most selfish, narcissistic generation in human history.
I believe you're talking about millennials...Baby boomers are the last generation not afraid to work...
They worked--but also partied like it would never end. Buying new cars, new homes, and not saving for the future. That's the complaint, not that they didn't work.
Let me put it a different way. The baby boomers were the last generation who earned what they get in retirement...
While setting up following generations with pit traps, snares, and 'self funded' everything... They pulled the ladder up behind themselves.
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Baby boomers... the most selfish, narcissistic generation in human history.
I believe you're talking about millennials...Baby boomers are the last generation not afraid to work...
They worked--but also partied like it would never end. Buying new cars, new homes, and not saving for the future. That's the complaint, not that they didn't work.
Let me put it a different way. The baby boomers were the last generation who earned what they get in retirement...
While setting up following generations with pit traps, snares, and 'self funded' everything... They pulled the ladder up behind themselves.
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
Except me. I screwed up.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
Except me. I screwed up.
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
I don't yearn to retire. I lead my life in a way to like living while young. Why bust your [censored] when young and healthy so as to retire old and unhealthy to enjoy it. Old age will get me at some point, it's inevitable.
A good way to think! As I've aged, I've failed, despite being an athlete, an avid bicyclist/dirt bike rider/pilot and extremely careful with diet, I find myself in very poor health and in serious decline. I have Hashimoto's and MCTD. It's about impossible for me to get up out of a chair now. I'm wobbly when I walk, I absolutely cannot do the things I love anymore. I've sold all 5 of my motorcycles, my airplane is for sale and so is my sports car. I can't climb out of it anymore.
So, while I can afford to have fun, my body won't let me. I'm flat out exhausted.
I am NOT looking forward to getting any older. And, you'd better believe I'm taking Social Security ASAP. I may not live long enough to see much of it.
And, before you "long lifers" say that most men die at 85, that's just not so. My best friend, a very fit pilot, just died at 59, of a massive heart attack. The morgue is chock-a-block full of middle aged men. A very large number of us men die early.
I don't yearn to retire. I lead my life in a way to like living while young. Why bust your [censored] when young and healthy so as to retire old and unhealthy to enjoy it. Old age will get me at some point, it's inevitable.
A good way to think! As I've aged, I've failed, despite being an athlete, an avid bicyclist/dirt bike rider/pilot and extremely careful with diet, I find myself in very poor health and in serious decline. I have Hashimoto's and MCTD. It's about impossible for me to get up out of a chair now. I'm wobbly when I walk, I absolutely cannot do the things I love anymore. I've sold all 5 of my motorcycles, my airplane is for sale and so is my sports car. I can't climb out of it anymore.
So, while I can afford to have fun, my body won't let me. I'm flat out exhausted.
I am NOT looking forward to getting any older. And, you'd better believe I'm taking Social Security ASAP. I may not live long enough to see much of it.
And, before you "long lifers" say that most men die at 85, that's just not so. My best friend, a very fit pilot, just died at 59, of a massive heart attack. The morgue is chock-a-block full of middle aged men. A very large number of us men die early.
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Originally Posted By: Cujet
And, before you "long lifers" say that most men die at 85, that's just not so. My best friend, a very fit pilot, just died at 59, of a massive heart attack. The morgue is chock-a-block full of middle aged men. A very large number of us men die early.
You just have to read the table I posted earlier. Basically it says that by 59, about 13% of the male population has died and 87% are still alive. At 85 years old, about 34.7% of men are still alive, but the other 65.3% are dead. To be a one percenter, you'd have to make it to 100.
So for those males who think they'll be dead by 85, 65% of them will be right and 35% will be wrong.
And, before you "long lifers" say that most men die at 85, that's just not so. My best friend, a very fit pilot, just died at 59, of a massive heart attack. The morgue is chock-a-block full of middle aged men. A very large number of us men die early.
You just have to read the table I posted earlier. Basically it says that by 59, about 13% of the male population has died and 87% are still alive. At 85 years old, about 34.7% of men are still alive, but the other 65.3% are dead. To be a one percenter, you'd have to make it to 100.
So for those males who think they'll be dead by 85, 65% of them will be right and 35% will be wrong.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
I think you're just making this stuff up, I didn't have free anything. I had to work for everything I got. And it isn't the baby boomers taking this stuff away, it's greed. No businesses want to provide anything anymore, and it's all about keeping as much profit as they can at the CEO levels. You can blame that on corporate greed, it has nothing to do with being generation specific. Greed has no generation boundaries...
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
I think you're just making this stuff up, I didn't have free anything. I had to work for everything I got. And it isn't the baby boomers taking this stuff away, it's greed. No businesses want to provide anything anymore, and it's all about keeping as much profit as they can at the CEO levels. You can blame that on corporate greed, it has nothing to do with being generation specific. Greed has no generation boundaries...
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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Jealousy and bitterness, and I can't say as I blame them. The younger generations won't have the comfy retirements us boomers will have because the business world has become a bunch of greedy sharks. However, those who blame boomers for what's going on are wrong for doing so. Corporate greed crosses all boundaries, generational and all...
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Jealousy and bitterness, and I can't say as I blame them. The younger generations won't have the comfy retirements us boomers will have because the business world has become a bunch of greedy sharks. However, those who blame boomers for what's going on are wrong for doing so. Corporate greed crosses all boundaries, generational and all...
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Jealousy pure and simple. We had a much better earnings and retirement environment than they will.
Most folks I know who moan and groan about retirement simply haven't really prepared properly. I will have three distinct income streams when I decide to retire, not counting SS. And I didn't really start preparing until I was nearly 40!
My advice is to assume there will be no SS. Plan on that. Then if you do get some SS money good for you!
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Jealousy pure and simple. We had a much better earnings and retirement environment than they will.
Most folks I know who moan and groan about retirement simply haven't really prepared properly. I will have three distinct income streams when I decide to retire, not counting SS. And I didn't really start preparing until I was nearly 40!
My advice is to assume there will be no SS. Plan on that. Then if you do get some SS money good for you!
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
I think you're just making this stuff up
Nice...I generally think that you are full of it too...
Note that I said from an Oz perspective...google any of my made up claims.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
I think you're just making this stuff up
Nice...I generally think that you are full of it too...
Note that I said from an Oz perspective...google any of my made up claims.
I'm a Baby Boomer that is heading to retirement not in a good place. Oh I lived the life alright, never owned a car less than 10 years old, had 2 new motorcycles, houses I bought have had crippling mortgages. Lived on a single income for 35 years with 4 kids, and home schooled them...because I could, it was tough, but worth it. This time next year I will be on a 1/3 of what I earn now, and my wife's part time work won't make up the balance. I'll have to keep working until my wife retires when we will be on 1/2 todays income. Living for now does have a crunch time it appears.
Not just Baby Boomers in power have done this - the previous generation scrapped a contributing super scheme because no one would see the benefit for 50 years...the 50 years is up Rob, and we need it now. The previous government and later generation who were educated and housed by the State pulled up that ladder and no one can follow them. The new lot are letting down a thin rope for some to climb, they would like to do more but the money people won't let them.
Not just Baby Boomers in power have done this - the previous generation scrapped a contributing super scheme because no one would see the benefit for 50 years...the 50 years is up Rob, and we need it now. The previous government and later generation who were educated and housed by the State pulled up that ladder and no one can follow them. The new lot are letting down a thin rope for some to climb, they would like to do more but the money people won't let them.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
I think you're just making this stuff up
Nice...I generally think that you are full of it too...
Note that I said from an Oz perspective...google any of my made up claims.
You're just bitter because you haven't, and probably won't prepare for retirement, and instead will just blame those who have...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Why are some people anti baby boomer ?
They paid into the system for 40+ years...
Per my previous post (and from an Oz perspective).
* they had free education...then imposed fees on following Generations. My year, I had $20k debt, my kid if they follow carry $80+.
* they had free healthcare...then imposed Medicare levy (1.5% tax, and compulsory private health insurance)
* they had and enforced demarcation...then broke it down.
* they had and enforced penalty rates, and are continually breaking it down.
* they had defined benefit, non contributory superannuation...available at 58 (or earlier)....subsequent generations have to "save their way" to retirement...to which they keep changing the rules...mid 60s access to retirement savings, no more than $25k per annum savings, no more than $1M total retirement without heavy taxation.
* they are currently driving the housing bubble in Oz, with negative gearing, making the houses that my children may want to buy completely unaffordable.
They raised themselves up, and when in power, pulled the ladder up after themselves to protect their position.
I think you're just making this stuff up
Nice...I generally think that you are full of it too...
Note that I said from an Oz perspective...google any of my made up claims.
You're just bitter because you haven't, and probably won't prepare for retirement, and instead will just blame those who have...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: grampi
You're just bitter because you haven't, and probably won't prepare for retirement, and instead will just blame those who have...
LOL...you have no idea....
What I do know is I will be able to live comfortably in retirement because I worked all my life and planned smartly. Nothing was handed to me, and I had no opportunities that weren't available to everyone else. Retirement is, as is life, what you make of it. You can sit around and blame others for your shortcomings, or you can get off your duff and do something about it. Either way, the result is because of what YOU did or didn't do...
Originally Posted By: grampi
You're just bitter because you haven't, and probably won't prepare for retirement, and instead will just blame those who have...
LOL...you have no idea....
What I do know is I will be able to live comfortably in retirement because I worked all my life and planned smartly. Nothing was handed to me, and I had no opportunities that weren't available to everyone else. Retirement is, as is life, what you make of it. You can sit around and blame others for your shortcomings, or you can get off your duff and do something about it. Either way, the result is because of what YOU did or didn't do...
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Americans have 35 years to plan for retirement, if they only rely on SS.... they are in big trouble and didn't save (invest) for their future.
In life you have to look out for your best interest and relying on Uncle Sam is a big mistake.
In life you have to look out for your best interest and relying on Uncle Sam is a big mistake.
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