Went looking for a RAV4 and ended up with Equinox

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I just googled "gm direct injection fuel dilution" and wow, the 1st page hits were mostly Bob is the Oil guy forums...NOTHING REPORTED in other words. Oh there was VW site and a SAE paper (download cost $$)...I will get that SAE paper from work for free and read and post here.

Even if DI engine were to have an inherent fuel dilution issue, why have we not seen any engines with problems. Granted, the miles are still racking up but I know me and my Dad have ZERO issues at close to 60k miles on each of our 3.6DI CTS's and a friend just rolled 105k on his CTS. You'd think the cry of fuel dilution would mean trashed engines all over the place - just isn't so.


Good luck with your DI engine, enjoy it. Make sure they reprogram that OLM.

Mike you do have a dog in the fight, you own a few GM vehicles.

 

[mechanicx]

I suspect the whole DI and OLM criticism is really just a pretext for criticising GM on the sly

.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I suspect the whole DI and OLM criticism is really just a pretext for criticising GM on the sly

.


I agree, and I have no connection at all to GM or any company doing business with them. Demarpaint claims to have "data" but REFUSES to post it. That alone negates anything he said.

I do have concerns, but less with fuel dillution, as that can be controlled with more frequent oil changes, and more with the carbon issue. The manufacturers really need to make their data available to defuse any fears that the consumers have.

It does seem that an occasional cleaning with an intake solvent can help greatly.

 

[zerosoma]

Hey, um...do you two care to do this in a private message conversation?

It's kinda making this thread prepubescent.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I suspect the whole DI and OLM criticism is really just a pretext for criticising GM on the sly

.


I agree, and I have no connection at all to GM or any company doing business with them. Demarpaint claims to have "data" but REFUSES to post it. That alone negates anything he said.

I do have concerns, but less with fuel dillution, as that can be controlled with more frequent oil changes, and more with the carbon issue. The manufacturers really need to make their data available to defuse any fears that the consumers have.

It does seem that an occasional cleaning with an intake solvent can help greatly.


What are your concerns with the carbon issues, according to this thread they are non-existent?

 

[Trav]

Quote:
the reprogramming of the OLM for 3.6DI's was NOT due to fuel dilution. It was due to TIMING CHAIN wear

Did GM say or why reprogramming the OLM fix the timing chain issue?
Was the oil getting wiped out for some reason?
I ask this as a question, i have no idea and know nothing about this issue. I'm just trying to get info and keep informed.
TIA

 

[jim302]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

I do have concerns, but less with fuel dillution, as that can be controlled with more frequent oil changes, and more with the carbon issue. The manufacturers really need to make their data available to defuse any fears that the consumers have.

It does seem that an occasional cleaning with an intake solvent can help greatly.


It seems like GM, Ford, and Hyundai have not had problems with intake valve deposits on their direct injected engines. There may be other good designs as well, but all 3 that I listed have sold enough cars that they would have started to see issues by know if the problem is severe as some people are saying it is. I am not intentionally leaving anyone out, these are just the 3 I have read the most about

It will be interesting to see how these engines look after 180,000 miles or so... but for right now them seem to be doing very well.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
The first DI engine GM made was put on the road before 2008 so I would think if there were ANY issues we'd of heard about now thru warranty claims (which I read monthly) and perhaps news reports.

GM-owned Isuzu put a DI 3.5 liter V6 (DI version of my engine) in their 2003 and 2004 Axioms. A lot of GM DI technology came from Isuzu. GM had a lot of time to fine-tune it and did a good job of it.

 

[cchase]

I've got no dog in this fight, I don't own any DI vehicles and I probably won't for many years. But it seems like with the sheer volume of vehicles GM has been putting DI motors in over the past 4 and a half years, if it was causing abnormal wear through fuel dilution or carbon deposits, there would be a lot of pictures on the internet to support it - as there is with the VW/Audi debacle.

 

[Trav]

There are a lot of questions i would like to know the answer to. Demarpaint poses some questions that have been on my mind which stems from the VW/Audi stuff.
I don't know enough enough about it to post anything credible or even knowledgeable about the subject except that ASNU is reporting dirtier injector nozzles than on non DI Euro engines.
They can be cleaned easy enough they say with my machine so its really not a issue as far as i can tell but to be honest i don't really know much about that either as i haven't done any yet.

My friends who work at Cadillac on the 3.6 everyday say they are okay but AFAIK this vehicle uses a 3.0 right?
I have heard nothing about this engine one way or another but it is a pretty sharp looking SUV.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Trav
There are a lot of questions i would like to know the answer to. Demarpaint poses some questions that have been on my mind which stems from the VW/Audi stuff.
I don't know enough enough about it to post anything credible or even knowledgeable about the subject except that ASNU is reporting dirtier injector nozzles than on non DI Euro engines.
They can be cleaned easy enough they say with my machine so its really not a issue as far as i can tell but to be honest i don't really know much about that either as i haven't done any yet.

My friends who work at Cadillac on the 3.6 everyday say they are okay but AFAIK this vehicle uses a 3.0 right?
I have heard nothing about this engine one way or another but it is a pretty sharp looking SUV.


Yes it's the 3.0L, but the 3.0L and 3.6L are essentially the same engine. IIRc, the 3.6L just has a longer stroke.

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

For the love of god some minor fuel dilution is not going to hurt anything. Our 98 K2500 is living proof of that. For about 6 years it had a leaking spider injector and leaking regulator. The oil would get water thin and burn your nose if you smelled it. Due to the fuel thinning the oil it would consume a quart of oil every 600 to 800 miles. I finally did fix it last year at 200,000 miles. It still lives and has good oil pressure today and uses absolutely NO oil at all now. When I did the spider I also did new intake gaskets (5.7 vortec) and the engine was SPOTLESS! I attribute that to the fuel cleaning everything. You could have eaten off the heads and lifter valley. It is a work truck. Tows landscape trailer full of mowers all summer and plows in the winter.

So enough with the minor fuel dilution. People here over analyze everything. )

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
My wife is actually in stage 5 kidney failure due to sarcoidosis which is very rare to attack the kidneys.

I am glad to see its not just us that felt there was a lot lacking on the RAV4.


Is she Swedish? Sarcoidosis is rare in white people.

As for RAV4, I did agree interior was rather spartan.



Hmmmmm do we have a Dr up in here? Not very many people have ever heard of sarcoidosis much less know it is fairly rare in white people. I dont think she is Swedish. Hmmm that is sad. I am not exactly sure what her background is. I will have to ask her. Next tuesday we have to go to the attorneys to prep for our deposition. Her first nephrologist dropped the ball so to speak a couple years ago when she still had decent kidney function (they found out when she went in to have her gallbladder removed. They noticed an enlarged liver and did a biopsy while they were in there and she had sarc in the liver and nobody ever told her) and the neph said she would be fine it was probably due to the kidney stones she had). We ended up taking her to Johns Hopkins a couple years later after she had blood work done to renew her thyroid meds and the doc called freaking out because her creatine was 9. Hopkins figured out what was causing her failure and the neph there told her off the record her previous neph screwed up and her failure could have been avoided. They put her on prednisone and cell cept and with in a couple weeks her creatine came down into the 4's and all her other levels were normal and no fluid retention.

Anyway enough with that. It [censored] me off when I start thinking about it.

 

[Mud]

Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
For the love of god some minor fuel dilution is not going to hurt anything. Our 98 K2500 is living proof of that. For about 6 years it had a leaking spider injector and leaking regulator. The oil would get water thin and burn your nose if you smelled it. Due to the fuel thinning the oil it would consume a quart of oil every 600 to 800 miles. I finally did fix it last year at 200,000 miles. It still lives and has good oil pressure today and uses absolutely NO oil at all now. When I did the spider I also did new intake gaskets (5.7 vortec) and the engine was SPOTLESS! I attribute that to the fuel cleaning everything. You could have eaten off the heads and lifter valley. It is a work truck. Tows landscape trailer full of mowers all summer and plows in the winter.

So enough with the minor fuel dilution. People here over analyze everything. )


LOL I agree. We have a 2011 V6 LTZ model and it's been fine. Diet of PP or M1 with WIX filters and a dose of MMO in the fuel. Currently at 16K miles. Issues - Mileage is disappointing at overall 21 but its not a light vehicle. Power steering pump groans slightly at idle speed despite dealer repair. All I can figure is that the pump does not spin fast enough at idle to provide full assist. I have a small 5x8 utility trailer that I pull sometimes, gets the same mileage regardless. Incidentally, I installed a Curt hitch and wiring harness in about an hour, direct fit.
However, even with that said we do like it, very nice for myself and the wife with some extra room for auction stuff

 

[ADFD1]

Anyone reach 200K yet? 100,000 150,000 seems pretty easy if you ask me. I have a feeling the exhaust valve carbon issues that effected the Audi motors will show up in GM motors also. BG44 seems to think so, at least with the Ford test car they used. I'd be more concerned with that than fuel dilution which over time can wreck bearings, time will tell.

AD

PS cool color Mud, what's it called?

 

[cchase]

100k, 150k is still more than most people drive in 8-10 years. At that point negligent maintenance and being on 3rd and 4th owners may be as much an issue with engine longevity as carbon DI issues.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Mud
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
For the love of god some minor fuel dilution is not going to hurt anything. Our 98 K2500 is living proof of that. For about 6 years it had a leaking spider injector and leaking regulator. The oil would get water thin and burn your nose if you smelled it. Due to the fuel thinning the oil it would consume a quart of oil every 600 to 800 miles. I finally did fix it last year at 200,000 miles. It still lives and has good oil pressure today and uses absolutely NO oil at all now. When I did the spider I also did new intake gaskets (5.7 vortec) and the engine was SPOTLESS! I attribute that to the fuel cleaning everything. You could have eaten off the heads and lifter valley. It is a work truck. Tows landscape trailer full of mowers all summer and plows in the winter.

So enough with the minor fuel dilution. People here over analyze everything. )


LOL I agree. We have a 2011 V6 LTZ model and it's been fine. Diet of PP or M1 with WIX filters and a dose of MMO in the fuel. Currently at 16K miles. Issues - Mileage is disappointing at overall 21 but its not a light vehicle. Power steering pump groans slightly at idle speed despite dealer repair. All I can figure is that the pump does not spin fast enough at idle to provide full assist. I have a small 5x8 utility trailer that I pull sometimes, gets the same mileage regardless. Incidentally, I installed a Curt hitch and wiring harness in about an hour, direct fit.
However, even with that said we do like it, very nice for myself and the wife with some extra room for auction stuff

We have the same thing at idle, not so much a groan as a small vibration when turning. It disappears if you rev the engine slightly. I'm nearly 100% sure it's due to the 500RPM idle.

Anyway, 21 overall is pretty good for the V6, we are averaging 18 or so, probably due to AWD, and our slightlier heavier foot. Also the 19" rims (-_-) probably aren't helping either.

 

[Mud]

Nick, your description is better than mine, exactly the same on all counts. Quite aggravating at times and I would be fine with a slightly higher idle. However, the gearhead in me is wondering if a pump from another model "could" work, but not going to mess with losing any warranty, more of a random thought... but I am keeping track to see if later models get a revised pump.

EDIT - I looked up PS pumps on Rockauto and found the following info:
2011 Equinox:
ACDELCO Part # 13577682
PUMP,P/S 1ST DESIGN; USE ON VEH BUILT BEFORE 2CNFLEE53B6345323-FOR 2ND DES SEE 13580490

ACDELCO Part # 13580490 More Info
PUMP,P/S 2ND DESIGN; USE ON VEH BUILT ON OR AFTER 2CNFLEE53B6345323-FOR 1ST DES SEE 13577682

The 2012's like in the OP use the second design pump only. I'm going to see what's in ours. If first design, it goes to the dealer.

AD, thank you. Color is called Mocha Steel Metallic I think. What we (wife) really liked was the interior. It's all done in chocolate color leather with tan accents and red-brown stitching. Along with the dash it all looked very upscale to us and very different from charcoal grays and blacks. At current miles it rides very nice and quiet, no squeeks. Yet, lol.

PSC, hopefully not veering away from your initial topic. I say everybody can drive what they want, just wanted to weigh on the Equinox. For us, the comparison brands were Acura, Honda,and Ford.

 

[Nick R]

Our 2011 was built in Feb of 2011, and when I just checked the VIN it appears to be after the breakpoint mentioned in the TSB. It doesn't annoy me really, I just think it could use a slightly higher idle if it could fix it.