V-Tail Bonanza's ??

[billt460]

Has anyone had experience with these aircraft? Do they fly much differently than a conventional T-Tail aircraft? I've always wondered how they combine the manual rudder and elevator control with the same control surfaces? Were these control systems very complicated, and were the rudders less effective?

What were the negatives involved with the V-tail? I know they were given the term "Doctor Killers", and I'm sure the flight characteristics of the V-Tail had something to do with that.

With today's sophisticated fly by wire, computerized flight control systems, they would obviously be easier to manage. But for Beech, the early Bonanza V-Tail was a "one and done" airplane. Subsequent Bonanza's all had conventional T-Tails.

 

[Taildragger]

I have only a little time in the V-tail Bonanzas, but they really do feel like a conventional tail airplane. They do seem to 'wag' a tiny bit in rough air. The V-tail had little if anything to do with the term "Dr. Killers". That probably had more to do with pilot's (Doctors) attitudes and the V series lack of tolerance of being over stressed. Remember, these things were introduced in 1947 and were pretty slick aerodynamically. That caught many pilots used to slower and draggier aircraft off guard leading to excessive speeds and the subsequent incorrect control inputs (pulling the tail or wings off!). The V-tails are great aircraft and generally about 5 knots faster than their conventional tailed brethren.

 

[ron17571]

My dad was a Cessna guy he told me low-wing planes make it harder to see the ground or land where there's brush. No shade from a high wing is bad in AZ also. I've heard the Vtail is okay though.

 

[2005jettatdi]

I have experience with a Bonanza V tail. My dad rented or borrowed one for a couple of hours. However, I was about 6 years old at the time, so probably not much help.

 

[wwillson]

V-Tails don't fly any differently than a conventional tail. The one thing you notice is a slight propensity to do dutch rolls where the end of the wings draw tiny circles. I only have a few hours in one of them.

 

[Cujet]

They are still among the better performing light aircraft when properly configured. There are issues with older aircraft ownership, and the V-Tail is no exception, the magnesium tail feathers are virtually impossible to deal with if corroded or damaged.

Bonanza Society boosts ruddervator replacement design prize

The American Bonanza Society Air Safety Foundation has increased the financial incentive it hopes will motivate development of replacement ruddervator skins for V-tail Beechcraft Model 35 Bonanzas that often face grounding if their out-of-production magnesium skins require repair.

www.aopa.org

 

[ecotourist]

My understanding about the "fork-tailed doctor killer" aspect was that it was too fast, too much performance, just too much aircraft for a wealthy but less experienced pilot.

So it could have been "fork tailed lawyer ... , or dentist ...., or engineer... , or business owner..."

 

[97prizm]

Has anyone had experience with these aircraft? Do they fly much differently than a conventional T-Tail aircraft? I've always wondered how they combine the manual rudder and elevator control with the same control surfaces? Were these control systems very complicated, and were the rudders less effective?

What were the negatives involved with the V-tail? I know they were given the term "Doctor Killers", and I'm sure the flight characteristics of the V-Tail had something to do with that.

With today's sophisticated fly by wire, computerized flight control systems, they would obviously be easier to manage. But for Beech, the early Bonanza V-Tail was a "one and done" airplane. Subsequent Bonanza's all had conventional T-Tails.

From many pilots that I know that have flown them the V tail can hunt or wander around in rough weather.

 

[wwillson]

My understanding about the "fork-tailed doctor killer" aspect was that it was too fast, too much performance, just too much aircraft for a wealthy but less experienced pilot.

Which I always thought giving the V-tailed Bonanza that nickname was silly. Any airplane can kill you if you are not proficient. There was nothing especially dangerous about the V-tailed Bonanza.

 

[wwillson]

From many pilots that I know that have flown them the V tail can hunt or wander around in rough weather.

This is somewhat true, but you don't do anything to correct the dutch-rolls. As a friend and former pilot used to tell me, "just keep your hands off!"

 

[97prizm]

This is somewhat true, but you don't do anything to correct the dutch-rolls. As a friend and former pilot used to tell me, "just keep your hands off!"

From my understanding the V tail bonanzas had a reputation as ceo or surgeon killers as their price was affordable but the performance was way and above what many were trained to deal with.

 

[wwillson]

From my understanding the V tail bonanzas had a reputation as ceo or surgeon killers as their price was affordable but the performance was way and above what many were trained to deal with.

I disagree. If you fly once every six months, because your job allows you very little play time, you are not proficient and wouldn't be in any airplane. The performance difference between a Bonanza and a 172 isn't the difference between the airplane killing you or not. If the same Doctor or CEO killed themselves in a 172 because they were not proficient, the result is the same. You can get very dead in a 172.

 

[97prizm]

I disagree. If you fly once every six months, because your job allows you very little play time, you are not proficient and wouldn't be in any airplane. The performance difference between a Bonanza and a 172 isn't the difference between the airplane killing you or not. If the same Doctor or CEO killed themselves in a 172 because they were not proficient, the result is the same. You can get very dead in a 172.

The V-tail design gained a reputation as the "forked-tail doctor killer", due to crashes by overconfident wealthy amateur pilots, fatal accidents, and inflight breakups. "Doctor killer" has sometimes been used to describe the conventional-tailed version, as well. However, a detailed analysis by the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of accident records for common single-engine retractable-gear aircraft in the United States between 1982 and 1989 demonstrated that the Bonanza had a slightly lower accident rate than other types in the study. Pilot error was cited in 73% of V-tail crashes and 83% of conventional-tail crashes, with aircraft-related causes accounting for 15% and 11% of crashes respectively

 

[tbm5690]

With today's sophisticated fly by wire, computerized flight control systems, they would obviously be easier to manage. But for Beech, the early Bonanza V-Tail was a "one and done" airplane. Subsequent Bonanza's all had conventional T-Tails.

"Modern" small aircraft are all still rigged with mechanical flight controls. Modern was put in quotes because the amount of changes made across decades of production has been minimal.

 

[Cujet]

From my understanding the V tail bonanzas had a reputation as ceo or surgeon killers as their price was affordable but the performance was way and above what many were trained to deal with.

It is a single piston engine aircraft, and certified to those standards. There is absolutely nothing about it's speeds, stall characteristics and performance that are out of the ordinary for a modern retract. It is faster and requires more attention than a 172, but let's be honest, just about any airplane is more difficult than a 172. It is not faster or more difficult than a modern Mooney.

 

[billt460]

It is a single piston engine aircraft, and certified to those standards. There is absolutely nothing about it's speeds, stall characteristics and performance that are out of the ordinary for a modern retract. It is faster and requires more attention than a 172, but let's be honest, just about any airplane is more difficult than a 172. It is not faster or more difficult than a modern Mooney.

Do they recover from spins the same as a standard tailed retractable?

 

[Cujet]

Do they recover from spins the same as a standard tailed retractable?

I don't really know. The certification requirements mandate that spin recovery is possible, at least by the factory test pilot. It has been some time since I've flown one. I do believe spins are prohibited.

The V-Tail won't have a horizontal stab or elevator blocking airflow to the rudder. So there is that. On some planes, a neutral elevator is required so the rudder gets adequate airflow and spin recovery is possible.

 

[wpod]

Piloting any type of plane requires constant training , Piloting a plane and not crashing it is quite a skill. But then that is just my thought. A man gots to know his limits.

 

[RedSpider]

Hang out in aviation long enough and you'll learn that any somewhat affordable airplane out there has a "doctor killer" added to it. The Bonanza was the "V-tailed doctor killer".... the Tomahawk was the "T-Tailed doctor killer".... The Ercoupe, the "No Rudder Doctor Killer"..... The "Cessna 17-2 Doctor Killer, 17 hours a year, 2 people dead"... etc etc.

The planes werent killing the doctors, the doctors were killing the planes. Wealthy enough to afford the plane, but dont fly often enough to be proficient.

 

[Cujet]

Hang out in aviation long enough and you'll learn that any somewhat affordable airplane out there has a "doctor killer" added to it. The Bonanza was the "V-tailed doctor killer".... the Tomahawk was the "T-Tailed doctor killer".... The Ercoupe, the "No Rudder Doctor Killer"..... The "Cessna 17-2 Doctor Killer, 17 hours a year, 2 people dead"... etc etc.

The planes weren't killing the doctors, the doctors were killing the planes. Wealthy enough to afford the plane, but dont fly often enough to be proficient.

Plenty of mechanical failures too. While that may not be the leading cause of a crash, it certainly is significant enough to warrant attention.