TSLA at 52 week high

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Yeah, stock at all time high, over $400.
Shanghai Gigafactory gonna start deliveries any day in the largest EV market in the world.
Model Y release this summer.
Berlin Gigafactory opening 2021; Europe loves Tesla.
Setting another delivery record in Q4.
3rd gen Superchargers being introduced.
Just rolled out software upgrade that gets Dual Motor cars to sub 4 second 0 to 60 time.

Meanwhile, Jag, Audi, etc struggle to get 200 mile range. Can't sell cars.
Porsche Taycan receiving mixed reviews, falls far short of promises.
Mercedes misses another release date. Pretty much got nuthin.

That's the numbers...

The numbers is that Tesla has never posted a profit 2 quarters in a row, and NEVER a year-end profit. Thems more the numbers I care about when evaluating industry staying power. But you go buy you that Tesla and let us know how it do.

We bought our Model 3 Mid Range a year ago. Love it.
Tesla is in a growth mode; the stock market thinks they are doing just fine.
Profitability is not the single measure of a company.
I bet every car company has lost money on their EV product.

By the way, a publicly held company's primary responsibility is not to earn a profit.
It is to maximize the wealth of its shareholders. Tesla is over $400 per share.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6

The numbers is that Tesla has never posted a profit 2 quarters in a row, and NEVER a year-end profit. Thems more the numbers I care about when evaluating industry staying power. But you go buy you that Tesla and let us know how it do.


Why single out Tesla? Numbers are a big discussion.

How do you evaluate GM - they went bankrupt.
Mazda - was bailed out by Ford
Ford - owes us billions and needed a federal lifeline to stay alive.
Chrysler who also went bankrupt.




UD

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by UncleDave

Originally Posted by Ws6

The numbers is that Tesla has never posted a profit 2 quarters in a row, and NEVER a year-end profit. Thems more the numbers I care about when evaluating industry staying power. But you go buy you that Tesla and let us know how it do.


Why single out Tesla? Numbers are a big discussion.

How do you evaluate GM - they went bankrupt.
Mazda - was bailed out by Ford
Ford - owes us billions and needed a federal lifeline to stay alive.
Chrysler who also went bankrupt.

UD


By your metrics, they're not being singled out. It's hard to make money with cars. That's why there are so many people that are short on the stock. Waiting for the greater fool theory to kick in, eventually you run out of fools.

Probably fun to hold with play money but I wouldn't make it a core holding.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Wolf359

That's why there are so many people that are short on the stock. Waiting for the greater fool theory to kick in, eventually you run out of fools.


You understand the people who shorted TSLA are getting killed, right?
You also understand it is solely not single investors (your greater fools?) that are driving up the stock, right?

 

[PimTac]

Okay, so what percentage of your investment portfolio is in TSLA jeff?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Okay, so what percentage of your investment portfolio is in TSLA jeff?

Dunno off hand. Buried in one of the funds.
The point of this post is how Tesla manages to stumble along, deal with issues and continue to beat the big guys. Of course so many, including me, have counted them out. An amazing American business story for us who are interested in this kinda thing.
All good.

How much? Not enough. I shoulda.. well you know.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by UncleDave

Originally Posted by Ws6

The numbers is that Tesla has never posted a profit 2 quarters in a row, and NEVER a year-end profit. Thems more the numbers I care about when evaluating industry staying power. But you go buy you that Tesla and let us know how it do.


Why single out Tesla? Numbers are a big discussion.

How do you evaluate GM - they went bankrupt.
Mazda - was bailed out by Ford
Ford - owes us billions and needed a federal lifeline to stay alive.
Chrysler who also went bankrupt.




UD



#1 BK serves a purpose.
#2 Every company you've mentioned was profitable year-over-year at some point in their history. That has never been the case with Tesla.
#3 Automobile manufacturing has a large political component. That component bailed out GM et al, but it has also has enabled Tesla to keep limping along by virtue of an implicit gov't guarantee.

The problem with Tesla is that their components are simply too expensive and luxury automakers can't reduce their per unit losses by cutting the same corners that Tesla can. For example think about how cheap it is to manufacture the dash for a Tesla vehicle. Tesla has 5 years before the "growth mode" excuse wears off.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by PimTac
Okay, so what percentage of your investment portfolio is in TSLA jeff?

Dunno off hand. Buried in one of the funds.
The point of this post is how Tesla manages to stumble along, deal with issues and continue to beat the big guys. Of course so many, including me, have counted them out. An amazing American business story for us who are interested in this kinda thing.
All good.

How much? Not enough. I shoulda.. well you know.





To be fair, I'm sure I have some TSLA in the portfolio. I would have to research to find out. I am positive it is fractional.

I believe in the 4% rule though that can be stretched if you work for a particular company.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by UncleDave

Originally Posted by Ws6

The numbers is that Tesla has never posted a profit 2 quarters in a row, and NEVER a year-end profit. Thems more the numbers I care about when evaluating industry staying power. But you go buy you that Tesla and let us know how it do.


Why single out Tesla? Numbers are a big discussion.

How do you evaluate GM - they went bankrupt.
Mazda - was bailed out by Ford
Ford - owes us billions and needed a federal lifeline to stay alive.
Chrysler who also went bankrupt.




UD



#1 BK serves a purpose.
#2 Every company you've mentioned was profitable year-over-year at some point in their history. That has never been the case with Tesla.
#3 Automobile manufacturing has a large political component. That component bailed out GM et al, but it has also has enabled Tesla to keep limping along by virtue of an implicit gov't guarantee.

The problem with Tesla is that their components are simply too expensive and luxury automakers can't reduce their per unit losses by cutting the same corners that Tesla can. For example think about how cheap it is to manufacture the dash for a Tesla vehicle. Tesla has 5 years before the "growth mode" excuse wears off.


#1 It also confirms poor leadership and choices and allows the company to skirt its outstanding obligations.

#2 How long before each company was profitable? How many loans, favors , subsidies, grants and breaks did they get along the way?
Did any of the others do anything really different - like tesla? Or were they " me too companies"? No one has ever done what tesla is doing so they aren't really comparable.

#3 Yes it does - but telsa has gotten nothing others didn't get - What implicit gov guarantee are you talking about ?

If the other guys copy what tesla has done in some areas (if they can) they can get similar economies- but they didn't do it first and are now me too like the new Mexstang dash

UD

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Wolf359

The rise is probably due to all the short sellers getting out of the market. Eventually they'll probably jump in again so it's going to make for a roller coaster stock. It already is from the last drop earlier this year. Maybe they'd have a future if that pickup wasn't so bone ugly.

There have been a lotta TSLA shorts.
Those peope are getting killed.


Getting what they deserve, short selling should be illegal among other things

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by UncleDave

Originally Posted by Ws6

The numbers is that Tesla has never posted a profit 2 quarters in a row, and NEVER a year-end profit. Thems more the numbers I care about when evaluating industry staying power. But you go buy you that Tesla and let us know how it do.


Why single out Tesla? Numbers are a big discussion.

How do you evaluate GM - they went bankrupt.
Mazda - was bailed out by Ford
Ford - owes us billions and needed a federal lifeline to stay alive.
Chrysler who also went bankrupt.




UD



#1 BK serves a purpose.
#2 Every company you've mentioned was profitable year-over-year at some point in their history. That has never been the case with Tesla.
#3 Automobile manufacturing has a large political component. That component bailed out GM et al, but it has also has enabled Tesla to keep limping along by virtue of an implicit gov't guarantee.

The problem with Tesla is that their components are simply too expensive and luxury automakers can't reduce their per unit losses by cutting the same corners that Tesla can. For example think about how cheap it is to manufacture the dash for a Tesla vehicle. Tesla has 5 years before the "growth mode" excuse wears off.


#1 It also confirms poor leadership and choices and allows the company to skirt its outstanding obligations.

#2 How long before each company was profitable? How many loans, favors , subsidies, grants and breaks did they get along the way?
Did any of the others do anything really different - like tesla? Or were they " me too companies"? No one has ever done what tesla is doing so they aren't really comparable.

#3 Yes it does - but telsa has gotten nothing others didn't get - What implicit gov guarantee are you talking about ?

If the other guys copy what tesla has done in some areas (if they can) they can get similar economies- but they didn't do it first and are now me too like the new Mexstang dash

UD

...and that is why I buy JDM. I have zero cares for shoddy quality from lowest bidder sources in 3rd world nations.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6


...and that is why I buy JDM. I have zero cares for shoddy quality from lowest bidder sources in 3rd world nations.



Which definition of JDM are you referring to?

UD

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6


...and that is why I buy JDM. I have zero cares for shoddy quality from lowest bidder sources in 3rd world nations.



Which definition of JDM are you referring to?

UD

100% designed, sourced AND manufactured/assembled in Japan for international sale. Not actual right hand drive conversions.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6


...and that is why I buy JDM. I have zero cares for shoddy quality from lowest bidder sources in 3rd world nations.



Which definition of JDM are you referring to?

UD

100% designed, sourced AND manufactured/assembled in Japan for international sale. Not actual right hand drive conversions.


Didnt you say prior you owned a few American cars? I cant recall..I thought I read you did.

Got it.

The Japanese certainly do all that well. I have no interest in "wood" from anyone.
Only one of my three current Japanese vehicles vehicles meet all those criteria and I agree there is a difference, that said I've had some interesting issues with the one that is, and specific issues with all of them, that said all my Japanese product has been superb. Far better than my experience with domestics, BMW, and Mercedes.

Ive got about 5K miles in various Tesli and find them an interesting mix of prior familiarity of styles and qualities.

I'm a CEO at at an american electronics company in the tv/film business, as well as own a boat manufacturing company and our products sell routinely for 200K+ and get to travel globally extensively and am very lucky that I get to motor everywhere.



UD

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Rmay635703
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Wolf359

The rise is probably due to all the short sellers getting out of the market. Eventually they'll probably jump in again so it's going to make for a roller coaster stock. It already is from the last drop earlier this year. Maybe they'd have a future if that pickup wasn't so bone ugly.

There have been a lotta TSLA shorts.
Those peope are getting killed.


Getting what they deserve, short selling should be illegal among other things


People who short the market have a purpose. That's why there's a saying, bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered. The bears make money from the shorts.

I wouldn't worry about the bears that much, they're probably the same as the bulls, they try and make money where they see potential blood in the water. But like bulls, you don't put all your eggs in one basket so even if they get killed in one stock, they can at least make money in other ones. It's a tough way to make a living though, the upside is limited and the downside is unlimited, it's the other way when you're a bull.

The tax credits just expired so we'll see how well their sales are going forward. They also worked through that list they had of people who wanted to buy one, now there's no waiting list if you want one that's more than a base model. Let's see where the sales are 3-4 years from now. Most new cars follow the same pattern, huge demand when the new model comes out, after a few years sales decline so that's why they have have a new model in 3-4 years to rev up the sales again. But that costs money to do a new model every few years.

 

[4WD]

I don't always want an EV … but when I do

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by 4WD
I don't always want an EV … but when I do


4WD - Go big or go home. 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds (or less). 600+ mile range. This one's for you...

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by 4WD
I don't always want an EV … but when I do


4WD - Go big or go home. 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds (or less). 600+ mile range. This one's for you...


Rather have an S class. Here's a twin turbo V-12 with 621hp. You can't beat the cannonball record in a Tesla.

https://www.autobahnmotors.com/cert...+ca-f6e487670a0e0ae8210cc9361b6073ef.htm

 

[UncleDave]

The benzes are great - when they aren't having problems.

Our chairman has 2 of the AMG V12 Benz convertible coupes and the CLK 63 AMG Black series which both he and I like even better

He keeps one convertible in Hawaii and the other 2 in Grass Valley Ca.

He bought his dad a P100, and loved it. Dad passed and he sold it to an employee of ours.

He also put 50K down on the Tesla roadster so if Elon ever delivers it Ill be able to go for a ride.

UD

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by UncleDave

Originally Posted by Ws6

The numbers is that Tesla has never posted a profit 2 quarters in a row, and NEVER a year-end profit. Thems more the numbers I care about when evaluating industry staying power. But you go buy you that Tesla and let us know how it do.


Why single out Tesla? Numbers are a big discussion.

How do you evaluate GM - they went bankrupt.
Mazda - was bailed out by Ford
Ford - owes us billions and needed a federal lifeline to stay alive.
Chrysler who also went bankrupt.




UD



#1 BK serves a purpose.
#2 Every company you've mentioned was profitable year-over-year at some point in their history. That has never been the case with Tesla.
#3 Automobile manufacturing has a large political component. That component bailed out GM et al, but it has also has enabled Tesla to keep limping along by virtue of an implicit gov't guarantee.

The problem with Tesla is that their components are simply too expensive and luxury automakers can't reduce their per unit losses by cutting the same corners that Tesla can. For example think about how cheap it is to manufacture the dash for a Tesla vehicle. Tesla has 5 years before the "growth mode" excuse wears off.


#1 It also confirms poor leadership and choices and allows the company to skirt its outstanding obligations.

#2 How long before each company was profitable? How many loans, favors , subsidies, grants and breaks did they get along the way?
Did any of the others do anything really different - like tesla? Or were they " me too companies"? No one has ever done what tesla is doing so they aren't really comparable.

#3 Yes it does - but telsa has gotten nothing others didn't get - What implicit gov guarantee are you talking about ?

If the other guys copy what tesla has done in some areas (if they can) they can get similar economies- but they didn't do it first and are now me too like the new Mexstang dash

UD


#1 As a CEO you should be keenly aware that's not always the case.

#2 Are you talking outright subsidies or tax breaks that is available to every business?

#3 Tesla is the darling of Silicon Valley and California. The US Gov't relies on SpaceX. For these reasons the govt would not let Tesla fail. Ever. You harp on the Big 3 getting bailout, well you haven't seen anything like a Tesla bailout. When the economy sours, which it will, look for 1/2 of their customer base to evaporate.

For the record I think Tesla is probably a steal because the technology is amazing and is being essentially given away at the price they're selling the vehicle for, but that doesn't make it a viable business.